The Manufacturing Executive
The Manufacturing Executive

Episode 100 · 7 months ago

Agency or Internal Staff? How to Hire a Marketer


Internal marketing employee or marketing agency? Entry level hire or seasoned marketer? Broad range of skill sets or deep specialist in a few core skills? 

Today’s guest, Mary Keough, Senior Marketing Strategist, Gorilla76, breaks down the questions that any manufacturing leader will need to answer for themselves before building a marketing team. Or even before making that first marketing hire. 

Join us as we discuss:

  • When to hire an internal marketer versus an agency
  • Budgets for staffing a marketing role
  • What skills sets to prioritize
  • The difference between the roles of marketing and sales 

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Your internal marketing team. I almost guarantee you if they are doing the right things and they're talking to sales and they've been doing this job for at least maybe one to two years, they're going to have ideas and they just are looking for the opportunity to execute on them. That's what I'd say. Welcome to the manufacturing executive podcast, where we explore the strategies and experiences that are driving midsize manufacturers forward. Here you'll discover new insights from passionate manufacturing leaders who have compelling stories to share about their successes and struggles, and you'll learn from B tob, sales and marketing experts about how to apply actionable business development strategies inside your business. Let's get into the show. Welcome to another episode of the Manufacturing Executive podcast. I'm Joe Sullivan, your host and a CO founder of the Industrial Marketing Agency guerrilla seventy six. This episode is brought to you by Workstep, a software provider that helps companies higher and retain their frontline workforce across the supply chain. Visit Workstepcom to learn more. Internal Marketing employee or marketing agency entry level, higher or seasoned marketer, broad range of skill sets or deep specialist in a few core skills? Report to the VP of sales or report to the CEO? These are all questions that any manufacturing leader will need to answer for themselves before building a marketing team or even before making that first marketing higher. And with any of these questions there's no default, right or wrong answer. My guest today will break down all of this from her unique background as an industrial marketer who has worked both inside and Industrial Company and inside a marketing agency. Let me introduce her. Mary KIO is a marketing specialist who joined guerrilla seventy six after helping lead a water tech manufacturer or in leads by repositioning the BB customer at the front of their strategy. Her relevant work experience has enabled her to design marketing plans at circumvent problems faster and exceed measurable expectations. In a digital world. Mary's proven approach helps industrial and manufacturing businesses stay ahead. When Mary isn't executing content strategies that convey products and services in a concise way, she's hitting new personal records in her garage. Jim To unplug, Mary takes to the outdoors alongside her two boys and her only girl. You might also find her at a local wine tasting, but only if they serve rat. Mary and her husband like to volunteer at do page pads, a resource shelter that's combating a homelessness in their area. For nearly forty years, and before launching her career and starting her beautiful family, Mary...

...graduated Magna Cum Laude from northern Illinois University with a degree in English. Mary, welcome to the show. Hey, thanks, Joe. I'm really excited to be here. Yeah, awesome to have one of our own teammates on from time to time, and you were. You're overdue here, so I'm glad we got you up on stage. So, Mary, you wrote a great post on Linkedin recently that sort of spurred this conversation, and your post referenced and Open Marketing Specialist Position that you've kind of stumbled across out a manufacturing organization. Based on the emojis that you used in your post, that job clearly made, that job description clearly made your head explode a little bit and I'm so tell us about what you saw. They're in that job posting and, frankly, what your beef was with it? Yeah, I would love to. So it was actually part of my research for this conversation. I was like, Hey, you know, what can I talk about with Joe that like, hasn't really been talked about and that, man, your manufacturing executives are actually going to care about? Right. So one of the big ones, and a conversation we have a lot, is why is marketing important? What should I be doing? I don't know what to look for. So I thought the perfect places start is who they're already looking for now, right. So just went indeedcom looked up marketing specialist, made sure the filter category was like industrial manufacturing, and this was kind of a common thread within all of these marketing specialist positions. From there, so our ideal candidate will develop, implement and track marketing programs such as email, social media, digital campaigns and or events. So I'm going to stop right there because that's the first bullet point among, let's see, we about about ten here, and this is a person who would be good at email marketing, social media marketing, digital campaigns. That could be paid search, that could be paid social, that could be conversion rate optimization, it could be content marketing, digital campaigns, is pretty broad. And then events would be someone who's like this could be like a field marketer, someone who runs trade shows, someone who assists sales in what like going out in the field and stuff. So just that one blond point is probably like four to five different specialties right there. And I think it's not like manufacturing executive's fault. It's not. It's no one's like issue. I don't think they're trying to scam anyone. I think they just don't really understand what they need from marketing right now right. So they're kind of just like, let's just cast a wide net and put out everything that a marketer would possibly do for us and see what sticks. Right. Yeah, I think that that sums it up pretty well and I know that the post goes on and on and on and we were obviously not going to sit here and comment on ever every piece of it, but I think you said something that's that's very true and you know, I want to empathize with the manufaction leaders out there because here's a thing like this is what I've...

...learned from working in the manufacturing sector. Is a the marketing advisor for over a decade. Like manufacturers, are mostly sales driven organizations. You know, they talking about this all the time. Right, marketing to them is it usually means trade shows and print ads and like, making stuff for the sales team and, you know, moving into a more digital era of marketing, which is long overdue. They don't know what to do. Like you don't know what you don't know, and that's why you're hiring a marketer, because you want to make that first step. But I think the challenge is, what do we even need? I know that paid media is important, in in Google and in paid, you paid social channels, and I know that content marketing matters and I know that we're still going to need, you know, event help with events and things. So you kind of lump it together and you go look for somebody who's, you know, a general lest but I think the thing that you risk then is the hire a generalist who's not really that good at anything. So, given all that, Mary, like, what if you're in a in the position of, say, a manufacturing leader that's leading a ten to fifty million dollar company, probably, like a lot who are who may be listening right now, like, what skill sets and responsibilities do you think should be prioritized, especially if you're going to hire an internal marketer for the first time, because you can't go hire it team of five or ten people out of the gate. You know it's not going to work, that it's not realistic. So what do your prioritize? How do you figure out what to what skill sets matter? Yeah, that's a really good question and I think that comes down to how your business is structured. So are you a product focused company or are you a market focus company? Right, so, a product focus company is going to be somebody who sells, you know, widgets, welding torches, robots, something where like I say those words and you can picture it in your head, right. So, and a lot of different companies sell them. So what you're going to want to be focused on if you're a product focused company is differentiators. What makes your product stand out from the big names in the sphere? What do customers say about you? So marketing teams should really be focused on like capturing existing demand, so people who are already looking for those products and already know what they are. So if you're a product focus company, you're going to want an internal marketing leader, I'm going to emphasize leader here, who's focused on maybe like Seo, content marketing, paid search, so they have a good background really and like content marketing, I would say, with a special emphasis on like Seo, and like a mixture of like paid search and Google analytics. So they know Google really well, because that's what people, people are going to be searching like high intent things right now. If you're a marketing focus company, these are people who, when they say what they do or what they sell, you kind of get that like Huh, and people kind of don't know they need you until they need you. Right.

So this is going to be a lot of like brand awareness, creating demand. So you're going to want somebody, again with a pretty decent background in content marketing, but with a special emphasis on like building awareness for a category. So again you're going to want a marketing leader with that kind of background. But really what you're looking for is, when you're interviewing somebody a you should be looking for a leader. So you should be looking for like a director of marketing, a VP of marketing. This means they're not going to report to sales. No, they're not going to report to a VP of sales and they're especially not going to report to a VP of sales and marketing. That's a huge red flag for a top tier marketing talent. They're going to want to report directly to the CEO or president. Now what they're also going to know right up front is they're going to have like a framework. So they're already going to know what they want to do with in the first ninety days. So in the interview process, while you're asking this person, they're already going to have a framework for you. They're going to tell you exactly what they want to do and why they want to do it. So they're going to stand out in that way. That makes sense. So buy think see you'd. I'M gonna ask a few clarifying questions. Yeah, you would. See. You rather see somebody go in and hire someone who's who has a true sort of marketing leader background, as opposed to a junior tactician that you could get, you know, a couple years out of college who might be good in social media, because I see a lot of that. It's like you hire the junior person but they don't have anybody to guide them and they don't have bad background, you know, constructing strategy for marketing within an organization. So naturally they wind up just doing tactical stuff and often without, you know, a whole lot of overarching strategy, which isn't their fault. They're just put into a position where they're expected to figure it out and they have. That can be a challenge. So I guess first I'm seeing you nodding, so you're clarifying. You'd rather and and that's tough, of course, because you go in and that salary might be two or three x the junior marketer. So there's that. But then the other thing I wanted you to clarify, as you talked about, you know, the difference between a company that maybe product focus selling you you described as widgets. I think I interpreted that as maybe smaller ticket. What about you know, like a lot of the clients we've worked with over the years, are companies who sell, say, industrial ovens or, you know, CNC machines that are highly engineered and highly custom or you know, food packaging machinery, and you're talking about sales that are individual sales that take six to twelve months plus and you know in individual sale maybe five hundred thou to a million dollars, like what what do you say to that? Or a company in that position. How should you know what they're looking for? Be Different? Yeah, I would say that would be more in the market focus category. So you're yeah, you're kind of building awareness for a giant category and with these super long sale cycles, you're going to want to be really honed in on the SE ments,... the audience segments and the markets who you're serving into. So like like you've you, like you and I have found with these higher ticket items they know exactly what markets. They're not trying to serve all of them. They know like the two to three markets who they serve best. So that's when you're going to want somebody who's more in that like market focus category, I would say. But you totally nailed it to with like the hiring a junior marketer who's focused on tactics. I think it's really easy to hire somebody who's going to just check the box on activities right. So, and especially if they're reporting to somebody like a VP of sales or a VP of sales and marketing, they're going to come in there and they're going to have like maybe a KPI, maybe goals, maybe not, and really what the leader is just going to be impressed by then is maybe a weekly report of all the activities that they've done for the week. But really it's like you need to go back to your why? Why are you doing this? Who is it serving? How is it pushing the overall business strategy forward? And what I would like, what I really would want to focus on with like marketing leadership, and you know you can, you can push back on me if you think this is incorrect. Questions like are you really sure you need marketing? Like I've seen a lot of companies who have supersteady growth because they sell a product where, you know, eighty to ninety percent of their customers are returning customers, right, and in that case you're growing at maybe like a five to seven percent year over year growth, right. So it's keeping up really nice and steady. You're not plateauing, you're not you're not really looking to maybe increase a ton because you're not sure what that would look like or it's just not a big product focused goal for you right now. So what your focus on is maintaining that growth, maybe replacing your salesman who are probably retiring. So what I would say is like, are you sure you want to focus on marketing right so with a company like that, it's like, maybe you don't need it right now. Maybe what your focus on is more like customer service, customer success, making your product better, something like that. So if you're not ready to make the investments you and I are talking about right now and marketing, maybe you don't really need it. It's a good point. Let's shift gears here from men to marry and talk about all encompassing marketing budgets. This is obviously something that every company runs into if they're going to make any investment in marketing. Is Okay, what's our budget for the year? How we can allocate it, along trade shows and adspend and maybe an agency and internal hires that we may be considering. And you know, again, our audience tends to be manufacturers doing ten, fifteen million a year up to maybe, you know, a few hundred million a year, which is fairly broad, but it's also kind of that mid market. And you know, I see things like I see companies with a hundred K for their total marketing budget, including all of that, and you see others with three hundred, two a million, you know, annually. And so look, what do you do? Differently if you've if you've in, if all...'ve got is a hundred K to spend and you're kind of a smaller manufacture and that that's you're limited by that constraint on the marketing front. Versus a three or five hundred K. Yeah, so hot take coming at you. We're ready for it. I'm ready for it. Yeah, if your marketing budget is less than five hundred K, and I'm didn't even go up to a million, you shouldn't be doing trade shows. You have so many more opportunities where you could be like just nix the trade show. We've seen way too many times where the economics just don't work out and unless you're somebody like a fanic or somebody who has these amazing product demos that they put out and they again probably have multimillion dollar marketing budget. So so yeah, if you're doing that, like just mix the trade shows all together, now there's like a huge leap right in that hundred K versus like three hundred K or even like two hundred plus. If you're not ready to hire a marketing leader, and you shouldn't be if you're not willing to pay them at least a hundred and twenty k probably preferably a hundred and fifty, based on what their experiences and what they could do for your company, then you should probably just do like like a full service marketing agency like you know, shoutout girl of seventy six, but somebody who's going to be able to go in there and do something, do these nice, small incremental stages. That's going to set you up for a great foundation. So maybe they can get you the revenue that you need to make that marketing higher and then they can help you out with maybe the x secution of something like the demand generation strategy. I don't know what you think. What do you like? You talk with these guys a lot, like sure, what have you seen work really well in those instances? Yeah, it's a good question. I think it buries a lot from one company to the next. You know, I think your comment on not attending trade shows is going to will ruffle some feathers of listeners right now, which I like. I think I think it's important to think about like should we just keep doing the same stuff we've always been doing because we've always been doing it and and have a good reason for it? Because I see a lot of manufacturers just they go to these trade shows every year, this this list of three or these ones that come up every couple of years, like I amts or whatever, and and they ship equipment across the country and they send ten people and they're paying for booth space and you've got travel and and you know, the argument will often make is if you know, if we you do need to do is reach the people that are there. There are a lot more effective ways to be able to do that and and to be able to do it day after day, week after week, month after month. By we were not going to get into a whole, you know, demand generation episode here right now and explain our philosophy. That's for another day. But it's it's a lot of eggs to put in one basket. You know, I've talked abou companies that are they're literally spending, you know, three four hundred thousand just on one single major trade show. And we know what are they come back what with it? Maybe some business call ards,...

...maybe a few leads. But and yet these same companies are hesitant to spend a third of that doing, you know, in a digital marketing engagement where they could probably en x the results of what they accomplished on that in that threeday trade show. So I mean, I agree with you. There there is there's just it's just companies do these by default. And what about you need to display at the show? Could you have a smaller booths space? Could you send a few people to walk the halls as opposed to, you know, just sort of committing you after year to to these major booth investments? So you know, if even if you're gonna cut it, you know it doesn't have to be an all or nothing. Sometimes it maybe a how do we approach that trade show a little bit differently? But you know, yeah, once you're down under into a certain range in terms of your marketing budget, there's just a lot of better ways to spend that. So I don't that's good. That's kind of my response to that part of what you said. Yeah, a hundred percent. And that's just another red flag for a top tier, high caliber marketer. Like if that's the if that's the talent you're really going after, and you're like yes, I want to put the budget into that, and during the interview process or during their first ninety days, you're telling them about how much budget they have to go conduct the trade shows they've always done. It's going to take the wind right out of their sales, only because they know there's just so much higher Urli strategies out there. They've done it, they've experience instant they can give you the economics of it. I mean seriously, here interviewing someone right now, they should be able to tell you exactly why the trade show is not worth your time based on your budget. Yep, YEP, for sure. And and you know it's a generalization we're making here right now. It's a they're usually the situation. There will be exceptions, of course, but I think that's the job of that market right is to help you make decisions not only about what to do but what not to do. Like that is one of the most important things I think a marketing leader could do is say you should not be doing this thing and here's why, and to build a case for that, because those resources can be allocated somewhere else, even if it's not in marketing, but like, there's probably other things on the marketing front that could be a lot more effective. So yeah, totally agree, and I mean it's like what we've seen in so many marketing in it and industrial companies is there's so much lowhanging fruit, like a great if you're hiring a great marketing leader, they're going to see that so fast and be able to capitalize on it so quickly. So I mean, I guess what we're kind of agreeing on is like you just need to hire that that high caliber person and let them do their thing. You know, trust them to take it over, implement the strategy and see it through to execution. Right, YEP, for sure. Yeah, let's take a quick break for a word from our sponsor. Hiring and retaining frontline supply chain workers continues to be a major struggle in today's market. WORKSTEP is a leading software provider that is partnered with manufacturing companies to... them better understand the true reasons behind their workforce turnover and take actions to improve it. WORKSTEP has successfully helped many manufacturing companies reduce their frontline worker turnover by up to thirty six percent. Visit Workstepcom to learn how you could do the same and protect your bottom line. Will Mary, there have been plenty of scenarios over the years where, you know, I've talked to manufacturers, had a first conversation with them or maybe even gone a few deeper, done a roadmap for them and and kind of drawn the conclusion that they're just going to be better off with an internal marketer then they would with an agency like us. On the flip side and plenty of scenarios, one internal marketers just not going to be able to accomplish all the things that say an agency could do. I think that's that's sort of a piece that stuck out from that job listing right like, if you really need all of those skill sets in those things done, I have never, I've been running this agency for fifteen years, I've never once seen a person who. I've seen people who can do all those things, but to be able to do them effectively in and and to be able to do it in less than a hundred fifty hours a week effectively. You know it's not going to happen. So so I think you know you are unique in the sense that you are an agency stratagist right now at our agency, gorilla seventy six prior to this, you were an internal marketing specialist at APTB Industrial Company. You've seen it from both anger goals. I'm curious to hear your take on when it makes more sense to hire an internal marketer versus to go get an agency that comes with a variety of skill sets. Yeah, yeah, if you are the non marketing leader, meaning this decision, I would say you are going to need an agency if you have a smaller marketing budget. So, like I said, your first marketing hire is going to be want to be minimum a hundred twenty K, probably closer to a hundred fifty k. they're going to, you know, have this excellent background, they're going to know exactly what they want to do. So if you still want to make a splash but you just don't have the money to do that, I think that's when you need an agency. Now, on the flip side of that, if you have a larger marketing budget and your problem is you're trying to do a lot of things because you're maybe a product focused company and you're just competition is high, you're trying to execute a lot of different marketing strategies, then maybe you just need an agency to execute. You know, we've been throwing out the term demand generation a lot, but what it might be is really just like paid media. They're helping you with creative they're helping you really execute on the strategy that you're saying, but I know you talked to them a lot more frequently. So I'm actually really curious to get your take on this and what you what you found in like when you've told people, Hey, go get the internal marketer because we're just not going to be able to help you here. Yeah, yeah, my perspective probably a little different, but I've also only been on the agency side at the things. I've also probably touched a lot more companies than..., just because of where I am in my career and the fact that we don't being at an agency my whole career of suspend. We've worked with a lot of companies. But I think what I think my take on it is when you're working within agency, you are essentially accessing people with a variety of skill sets, and so when you think of of one internal marketer and all those things you might need them to do, or even two or three internal marketers, and then you think about what an agency can do, you know the agency is going to come with skill sets that include, you know, overarching marketing strategy, content strategy, the ability to create content. You might have writers in house, they might have a videographer and house. They'd probably got a web developer or team of developers. They've got design capabilities, Seo, paper, click, paid social like. You're never going to get all this stuff in one or two people, and so, you know, it's some time. In a lot of cases, I think an agency can fill all the needs, regardless of you know, and and we do that, and this is not a pitch for gorilla, but you know, I think a lot of the best scenarios too, are when you have when you put together the combination of the two and you can have somebody in house who can be your main point in contact, but you have an an agency who can, you kind of said that, to help execute. And we've worked with companies that don't have a single intern internal marketer and we kind of take on this the Strat, the quarterback strategy, roll and also execute. And then we've also got scenarios where there are four or five internal marketers and we play a little bit more of a consulting where we help them a skill their team up in certain areas, will help from figure out, you know, what things to do and not do and maybe fill gaps in their skill sets. So so yeah, I think it's always worth looking at like does it does it make more sense to handle this internally? I think the complexity of your market and and your product and sales process also plays into that too. So this got a lot of factors. It's hard to say, well, you do this in the scenario and this this one, but it's something you want to evaluate and have somebody help you evaluate before you you just say well, maybe we should hire somebody. And who should hire? I don't know this. You know, person right out of college who seems like they're good on social media or you know, go make that strategic. HIGHERS got ten years of marketing experience in BB sector, selling complex products. You know it's yeah, so I don't know if that helps. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's a yeah, that's an interesting point. I think it goes back to that point I was discussing. Where are you sure you really need marketing? Like if you need someone who's just gonna set up your trade show booth week like, month over month, who just needs to you know, proof, free the brochures, make sure the website is just running. Yeah, hire the marketer, the marketing specialist for sixty to nine K. be a little more upfront. In the job description. Make sure you really know what you're looking for, and I mean another hot take coming at you. Be...

...prepared to lose them in two to four years to a technology company, because that's where all the marketing specialists are going. If they're not going to tech, then they're going to an agency or something like that, because they're just not finding the growth and creative career opportunities that they can find in different areas. Very something we talked about often at gorilla is how as I kind of said this earlier, but manufacturers are traditionally sales driven organizations and you and I know both very well that marketing and sales are very different functions. I don't I don't think a lot of manufacturers do it that way, probably because they lack an understanding of the role of marketing. So what winds up happening is they they make a marketing higher and that person reports to sales and then they just wind up being the person who makes brochures and materials for sales and again helps with the trade show and stuff. So I'm curious to hear your thoughts on this and that sort of should marketing be reporting to sales? I mean it's a I know what your answers questions can be, but I want you to to go in depth on why. Yeah, and I don't want this to be like a bashing sales podcast, because I worked at a company where I was lucky enough to interface with sales quite a bit, and sales guys and girls are awesome, like they are boots on the ground. They know their customers inside and out, they are negotiating deals on juggling orders, they're like both getting new sales and handling it existing accounts. I mean sales guys are like your boots on the ground, right. They know your product inside and out and they know their customers inside and out right. So what you need when you're looking the differences between sales and marketing, you should really want a marketer who's going to interface with sales and get that point of view of who you're existing customers are now, but the function of marketing is actually very different. So the function of marketing should be going out and creating that awareness, communicating with your potential customers. We talk a lot about like your Tam so, your total addressable market, and that's what marketing, that's who marketing should really be communicating with, and we're getting all these stats thrown at us all the time. I think the average is probably somewhere between five and ten percent of your total addressable market is actually needing your product right now. So that's who you want to talk to. Sales, that five to ten percent sales if you have a good sales team, and most manufacturer manufacturing companies do, because they have these great experts at these very niche products and niche markets. So your sales team is great, they're going to want address that five to ten percent of people who's in the market for your product right now. Now. You want marketing to communicate with the rest of that ninety five to ninety percent, right so you want them putting out what your product does, the pain points it solves, communicating with your customers, maybe over a podcast...

...or a Webinar, just doing those things so that they're communicating with those people who are not in market now, but making sure that when they are in the market and ready to talk to your sales team, your company is the first one that they're going to talk to because they're like, oh, I know exactly what they do. Let's go talk to sales, and that's like the best thing about marketing to is if you're doing marketing right and you're doing it well, it's making sales jobs so much easier and I've seen that in a lot of companies where it's like God like. It's so nice to have a new lead come in and just say hey, I've seen you on XYZ channel or I know exactly what you do, I just need you to help me with my very specific application. Right, so marketing is going to go attract those guys and then sales going to convert them to customers. Yeah, I agree with what you're saying and to build on it and I think when manufacturers aren't sure what to do with marketing, they know they need marketing but they're not sure what to do with it, they wind up just sort of having marketing do another version of the same thing sales is doing and it's just I mean, I've seen it enough where it's the expectation is marketing is going to be hammering everybody in the market with with bottom of funnel sales driven messaging like by like here's what we sell, here's amazing we are, is are greater, people are buy from us. Now, talking to Iman, you said it like ninety to ninety five percent of your audience, the right people from the companies, are not buying right now. So, like put yourself in their shoes. You want to hear sales messaging about something you don't need now but you probably will in a year or two years or maybe even in a few weeks. Like yeah, when when all you're doing is is putting messaging in front of people that they don't want to hear, they're going to turn it off and you're probably going to annoy them and and that's the opposite of what you want to be doing. You want to be building trust and awareness in front of the right people. You want to be speaking to things that matter to them and their jobs and helping them solve problems and helping them evaluate different solutions to problems that they're likely to have. And then when they're ready, like you said, then you're ready to trusted advisor and they're going to know you already, they're gonna come to you first. So it's just a completely different mindset than most manufacturing organizations have. They try to make marketing do sales. That's why you have sales. You have sales to do sales. You have marketing to do marketing. So it's a matter of helping them understand what role marketing really needs to play. Yeah, I think that's exactly right, and I mean the brands that pop into my head who do this really well are like athletic companies. So you're Nike or Adidas, you're under armor when you see them in when they're speaking to those ninety to ninety five percent of the people who are not in market right now for athletic wear. What are you seeing? You're seeing real people doing everyday activities, maybe running around the block, maybe doing some boot camp classes, maybe even just walking around and their athletic leisure where. So it's like it's putting you like Oh, that's so nice, or like you know, what I think Nike does...

...really well is makes you feel like you could be an athlete, right, like Hey, if I'm wearing Nike, I I can be an athlete. I can just do it too. Right. So as soon as I need athletic leisure where, I'm going to type in one of those company names because I've a seen how good they look on everyday people and be it made me feel good, right. It made me feel like I could be that person, and that's really what you want to do when you're speaking to like the ninety to ninety five percent of people who aren't in market. You're putting them, you're giving them a good feeling of when they have this problem or when they need this solution, you're the first people that come to their mind. So tell them a good story. Don't try and sell them, like if Nike's commercials were a giant Qr Code that said, Hey, buy some Nike product right now. It's no one's gonna do it, ever. It's going to go over everybody's head. Yeah, look at the look at the ten new models we have and scroll through. I'm like, what, would you ever see that? Of course you would try. That's not that's not what they're trying to do, and if they did, nobody would be paying attention because nobody cares. Right, yes, exactly, and a great marketer is going to know that. A great marketer is going to be able to do that combination of like knowing your customers really well and telling a story to that ninety to ninety five percent. Right, yeah, awesome. Will Mary. Is there anything you want to add to this conversation? I didn't ask you about. Let's see again, please. If you're hiring marketing talent, if you are in the market or, you know what we're talking a lot about people who might not have a marketing team right now. So if you do have a marketing team and you're kind of like, I want to shake things up here, like your internal marketers, I was an internal marketer and I was on a team of other internal marketers. They want to step up. Internal marketers want to be held to a higher standard. So if you guys, if your leadership, if my Ceeo, like we had a pretty decently sized organization, if my CEO or you know, marketing did report to a VP of sales and marketing at the time, if either of those two leaders had come to me and said, Mary, look, I really want to shake things up, I feel like we could do something different. Your internal marketing team, I almost guarantee you, if they are doing the right things and they're talking to sales and they've been doing this job for at least maybe one to two years, they're going to have ideas and they just are looking for the opportunity to execute on them. That's what I would say. You speaking from the heart, from your own expense. Yeah, it's a great point. Awesome, Mary, will really good conversation. I appreciate you doing this. And Yeah, yeah, can you tell our audience how they can get in touch with you? Yeah, please find me on Linkedin if you have any responses to my hot takes. I would love to get a DM from you. Would love to talk to you. If you're an internal marketer...

...and you know you just want to get some advice or whatever, please reach out. You can find me on Linkedin or that's probably the best place to get in touch me. Let's do linkedin. Fair enough. Yeah, marry your your content's been great. It's been fun watching you kind of, you know, start to get your insights out there more often and there's a lot of engagement, which tells tells me people are listening. So go follow Mary and linked in. For sure. Awesome. Thanks. Jealous is so fun. Yeah, I agree. We'll do it again before too long. So awesome. Well, thanks again, Mary, and as for the rest of you, I hope to catch you on the next episode of the Manufacturing Executive. Before we go, I want to say a quick thank you to our sponsor work stop worksteps software helps companies higher and retain their frontline workforce across the supply chain. Visit Workstepcom to learn more. You've been listening to the manufacturing executive podcast. To ensure that you never miss an episode, subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player. If you'd like to learn more about industrial marketing and sales strategy, you'll find an ever expanding collection of articles, videos, guides and tools specifically for betb manufacturers at Gorilla Seventy sixcom learn thank you so much for listening. Until next time,.

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