The Manufacturing Executive
The Manufacturing Executive

Episode 87 · 9 months ago

The Coming of the All-Electric Society w/ Jack Nehlig

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

The biggest obstacle to renewables is a lack of knowledge on the subject.

But once everyone knows the money they can save while helping the environment…

We’ll be living in an all electric-society.

Today’s guest, Jack Nehlig, President at Phoenix Contact USA, joins the show to discuss these benefits and what the all-electric society means for manufacturing.

Join us as we discuss:

- What people need to know about renewables

- The trends in autonomous vehicles

- How anyone can take advantage of the latest advancements in robotics  

Subscribe to The Manufacturing Executive on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or our website.

Listening on a desktop & can’t see the links? Just search for The Manufacturing Executive in your favorite podcast player.

The world will continue to grow and sustainable energy sources can produce so much. But if we can add a massive efficiency layer indoor overall supply chain where we dramatically improve the efficiencies of what we do, then we get a huge improvement in decarbonization and then we get a huge improvement in just the need for electricity or the need for energy sources. Welcome to the manufacturing executive podcast, where we explore the strategies and experiences that are driving midsize manufacturers forward. Here you'll discover new insights from passionate manufacturing leaders who have compelling stories to share about their successes and struggles, and you'll learn from B tob sales and marketing experts about how to apply actionable business development strategies inside your business. Let's get into the show. Welcome to another episode of the Manufacturing Executive podcast. I'm Joe Sullivan, your host and a CO founder of the Industrial Marketing Agency guerrilla. Seventy six from climate change driving the need for sustainable and zero carbon energy production, to transportation and mobility of all kinds, moving to automation and inner connectivity, to the explosion of robotics and cobots, to the resurgence of American manufacturing, a Miss Covid and supply chain challenges. There are some powerful forces right now that are driving what my guests today describes as the move to an all electric society. But his company isn't only talking about it, they're living it. Let me introduce him. Jack Naylig was named president of Phoenix Contact USA in November of two thousand and one. He's responsible for Phoenix Contacts USA operations, comprising of the US sales subsidiary as well as the group center of Competence for the America's in addition to his US responsibilities, in two thousand and sixteen, Jack became a member of the Phoenix Contact Group Executive Committee. Prior to joining...

Phoenix contact, Jack Spent nineteen years at honey well in various sales, marketing and executive positions, including Vice President and general manager of the sensing and controls division. Mr Naylig currently serves on the Board of Governors and his treasurer of the National Electric Manufacturers Association, Nema. He holds a BS in industrial distribution from Clarkson University and Potsdam New York, and an MBA from the University of Phoenix. And Arizona. Jack resides in Lancaster, Pennsylvania, is married and has three sons. Jack, welcome to the show. Thank you, Joe. Boys, sounds like I'm getting old, but Jack, I'm really, really excited about this conversation. I always do a planning call with my guests, and the one that you and I did together, I don't know, a month or so go, got me thinking about a lot of things. I can't wait to tap into your brain here. So this is exciting, awesome me to you. Can't wait to go cool. Well, Jack, you have talked to me about how we are rapidly moving toward what you've described as an all electric society. Tell us what you mean by that. Well, it's it's kind of a convergence, Joe, of some big, mega trends. We all feel this around us, but our company has chosen to name it and it really crystallized it for me and I'm sure it does for many. But it's first and foremost driven by the the climate change issue the world is dealing with, and borne out of that is need for decarbonization and then the big targets on the back of a couple of industry sectors, one being the energy generation, the electric generation in our world, and then to being the transportation sector, which is a big consumer of of the carbon energy forms. So first of all there's this massive need to act in the world to try to decarbonize and therefore work on the electrical sector, which tends to...

...be, both from a producer and consumer perspective, a big cause of the problem, if you will. So that's a big driver of this all electric society. But then there's a couple other things coming along at the same time. It's more of a convergence of a few more vectors and and that would be, you know, the evolution of iote and in the industry, will industrial world. It's iote or industry. For Point I was so all this cloud based smartification and electronics get getting everywhere into our worlds. And then one I love to think about is robotics and cobotics are evolving into a more more mainstream topic. And then, lastly, the whole geopolitical environment where supply chains and things or moving things around and our world is unstable, so that instability also gets into this mega trend. It's causing forces to create this need and the idea in the end, with all of these things converging is we're going to end up in, and we're creating a society that will be driven by very sustainable electrical production and the end consumption of it will be highly electrical, very autonomous and very networked. In the end. It's a complex vision, but it's a vision of a very pervasive, exciting world in the future. Great overview the Jack. You know, what I'd love to have you do is you started naming what I know you've described as these four mega trends that are kind of driving the push towards this all electric society. Let's go in depth on each and start where vie you'd like, but I'd love to have you break down these mega trends. So if we go to the first one, right, which was the force of climate change driving the the energy production sector. First Right, so we've all seen it, heard about it or witnessing it, this transition to sustainable energy, the main icons of that being...

...wind and solar, and the main evil there has always been coal. And if you look at the US, for example, we've dramatically reduced our coal over the last decade. If you look at the number it stand, I think nineteen percent of our energy production. So it's it's really getting to be less of an effect here, whereas central will Europe still realize a lot on cold China is still raising their coal production of electricity. So there is this fight on how do we get enough wind and solar and or other carbon friendly forms of energy production to go? And it's an exciting thing to watch. And what I've learned by running a company that has its own production and has its own facilities is, you know, people just in this is a theme, I say, throughout almost all electric societies. People don't know what they don't know. I mean we've seen the news wind and solar, we see incentives, but we don't act because we don't understand it well enough and we don't think it's really financially viable. And a story I like to tell is so, I don't know, seven or eight years ago. First I talk to my facilities leader and we discussed maybe generating our own power. And we have a large facility here at large campus with seven hundred feet of fifty people office buildings, factory, automated warehouse. We chew up a lot of electricity, about one point five mega out, and so we embarked on it and the first thing we did is we thought, what the heck, will put in natural gas fired microturbins first, which we did because natural gas was low cost supply. It's a relatively clean energy source. But we thought, boy, is going to be costly all in the end, with government and centives that existed, nothing special that we got and the cost of natural gas, it turned out to be payback in about three years and we're saving at for our check book, hundreds of thousands of dollars a year and producing our own electricity has been reliable and fantastic and our local utility, when they found that we were doing it, wanted us to do it because they were dealing with great capacity issues during peak times in the summer, for example. We just...

...did it and but that was about a megawatts. Who didn't produce all of our electricity? So then just last year we did the next megawatt. We decided, what the heck, let's try the solar approach and five years ago we looked into solar and the payback wasn't as good and we targeted this one main roof on our warehouse and at that time the space would give us about six hundred kilowatts of electricity generation. Five years later, the same space on the same roof, the panels are more efficient. Now we can do nine hundred and seventy kilowatts, almost a megawatt, on this same space and the price of the panels is less today than it was five years so now, when you look at the economics of soul ler versus only five years ago, when there were incentives, when there were reliable products, today it's almost fall off the log it's you can do it, you get your money back really quick and you save lots of money. So one is it's a green agenda, you're doing the right thing for the environment. But to it's amazing how easy it is and how efficient and affordable it is. But people just don't know it. They don't think you know. You Talk to another company owner or business owner and say hey, why does degenerate your electricity, they go you can do that? They think that's somebody else's job. So so that was a big learning for us here in the US on electrical generation. And the other comming I would make there is we're in Pennsylvania. So my comparative cost that I compare my generation to is actually very low. Because we have a lot of nuclear and Pennsylvania and a lot of natural gas in Pennsylvania. You Go to other states, New York and many other states, the comparative is high. So the paybacks are even better in those states. So if we could do it on three to four your paybacks on our money and then a great return over ten years, others in other states could do it even better. So that's that's energy production. So then there's mobility, right.

So we're all seeing this wholy mobility debate play out and I love being on social media, primarily linkedin because it's a business environment and I love seeing that play out there because we're seeing all these advancements and all these launches of cars and things and trucks and planes and all kinds of things, and everybody loves nay saying. I know that. Yeah, but what happens when it snows and what happens when you know this doesn't happen and that doesn't happen? But it's an amazing force that's coming and it's coming very, very fast and a little tied to the previous story. About a decade ago this all started and we saw it, so we kicked it around and thought, you know, let's put a charging station in the parking lot so that when people finally buy a car they could get a little bit of a juice when they come to work. Right. So we did it. But we decided, you know, if you put it with regular grid hook up back before making our own electricity, you're still pulling off the grid and if the grids of coal fired, you're still doing carbon to get your clean car. Right. So that's silly. So we thought, you know, what the heck will we'll get. We got a couple of college kids one summer and we had them design a little solar powered charging station. So it's this little not a garage but like a car port that the car pulls into and their solar panels on the roof of it and he's college kids design is and it generates enough electricity to sit there and charge your car during a sunny day. So we have emobility and complete carbon free generation of electricity doing the car. It works. That's amazing. The whole thing. The whole thing works. Love that example. So we were blown away about how it worked. And and so so the emobility sectors coming really fast. Tesla proved an amazing thing. You know now he he deployed all these charging stations around the country, which we're critical to making it work, and I've seen good statements on the Internet about you know, the only true effortless transportation and emobility is Tesla right now because of all...

...those charged, fast charging stations. But are current president, you know, came on board and said, Hey, let's build out five hundred thousand fast charge stations around our highway networks so that people can use it. And he's right. That's needed. There is a network out there. It's sort of patchwork, it's not highly reliable, it's difficult, but you know, the president's right. Five hundred thousand is probably I would call it the bare minimum. He's probably missed a zero on that. We need about five million fast charge stations in this country. But if we get five hundred thousand you can get a good chunk of society moving around and maybe twenty thirty percent. But the the amazing thing is we will get to the five million fast charge stations. It will come and and right now the main application for electric cars, although you can drive far, is your local driving and if you're a family that has one, two or three cars. You could easily have an electric car and and you would be very pleased with what you get, and especially if you can get free charges from certain places. That works out of wonderfully. The other one that that I like to think about, though. Two is, I think, the first obvious application for emobility. There's there's sort of too, but the big one with me is trucking, long haul trucking, not around the city, you know, through difficult navigation, trucking the last mile, trucking where the guys bringing this tractor trailer to your building to pick up product or deliver it or do something like that. You know that you need a driver to navigate the tight spaces and all the things you've got to do. But just think of the long haul trucking in our country. We are, we are, we are the king of long haul trucking. We move product from the West Coast to the East Coast, to the East Coast to central, central to the south. We just move these trucks all over the place and if you ask people nowadays they say one of the big problems we don't have enough truckers. We don't. You got macroeconomics of a...

...lot. I'm retiring, the baby booms retiring off plus huge demand and we're just not going to have enough truckers. So long haul trucking is a wonderful opportunity. You know, it's get that truck in the right hand lane, have a go exactly sixty five miles an hour, not one mile more on Momo mile an hour or less, have it autonomously go down that road and then pull over when it gets to the right city and then some trucker ubers out to that spot, jumps into truck and drives it to the last mile. And you would you would not only decarbonize with that if you did that truck, not only autonomously, but if you did an electrical form in some way. But today we kill Fortyzero people a year on American highways and it's been debated and highly predicted that if we could get autonomous technology in all cars, even if you're driving but you have all the autonomous technology keeping you from getting into accidents, we could save at least two thirds, two three four. So those you would save thirtyzero lives a year. And then think about accidents would drop at the same ratio. So then you'd be in the millions of accidents and injuries and all of that would just drop out of society. So electrification and autonomous driving of trucks, I think, is a wonderful, wonderful opportunity for us in this country to to decarbonize, to electrify and to save a whole bunch of lives. And and they're still great trucking careers. They could do the last mile, all these great things. And if if you were then a truck driver and you knew you didn't have to do these long holes and be away from home and all that sort of be home for dinner every night, how wonderful could life be? So I see some model there on that that I think is fantastic. So so in mobility, that's all happening. And then even General Motors, Mary Barras keynote out at CS. She she sort of ended on, you know, vertical takeoff and landing,...

...autonomous flying, you know you she had the thing flying over the buildings and I've been watching that one for a decade actually. I think I looked it up in the first one I discovered by many others did too. It was a little company in China called Ehan. They came out with the Ehong one hundred and eighty four and it was a drug. Just looked like a drone. It still does. They actually make them and it's blown up to be human size. So it's the classic drone with the four propellers, you know, on the four corners, and then the little center section is now like a little egg shape thing where you sit in it, you get in it, it's got like an IPAD and in a map and you just plug in where you want to go and it'll fly twenty minutes in the air electrically at sixty miles an hour. So you can about twenty miles and then land wherever you ask to to land. And you don't know how, how you know have to fly it. It's all electric and I think I read this city of Dubai, but out a hundred of them and they're testing out and autonomous taxi service. Right. So, so if people think it's crazy, they're right. I mean you got to decide you want to do that, but it's coming. It did. You can't stop this. And and now, since then, if you just Google Autonomous Electric Air flight, you'll see dozens and does the startup companies and major companies developing product to so not only in not only on our roads, but we're going to electrify airways. It's going to be amazing to see. So Mobility is a big topic. I think it's really coming. It's super exciting and I think I'm excited to be part of it in the future. The other one that goes along with that the the whole business model change. That's crazy right. So if you get autonomous going in electric, you know, and I keep thinking, and I've posted this many times on social media, that I keep thinking, this is what apples up to. You know, there's this talk about apples. Hired a thousand engineers or two thousand EGE year to come up with an apple car. But I think they're they're doing it and they're waiting for the right moment and and I think it's tied to autonomous driving. I mean, think about it, a Joe, if you have a son and a daughter or something, they're going their teenage years, they get to be old enough to drive,...

...you go okay, go get your license and we'll buy an old car. You can have mom's car all in my car. It's about it's old ten years. You can drive it. Well, the insurance to up keep the whatever, the weather, whatever. And what are the kids doing? They're just going to band practice, going to the mall, they're just run around their friends house. You know, they don't really need much of a car. These need some mobility, right. Yeah, well, what if you just gave him the APP and said here's a hundred bucks a month to get around, to see your friends and use it up. Then you'ren't going anywhere and all it is is you push the button in this little pod shows up, this will apple eye car shows up at the house, nobody's driving it. You get in, there's only room for to it takes you to the mall, it takes you to band practice, it takes you where you want to go and you go home and you know there's a car. Need to be a thretezero car. No, just needs to be a safe little pod. Doesn't really need any music, no, you know, no no entertainment stuff. Seats don't have to be that comfortable. You're only going to be in them for ten, fifteen minutes. But these little things could be moving around your neighborhoods in your town, and then apples just cracking those things out. The little I Carl car and you don't have to own it. You can just you could own one maybe, or you could just you know, it'd be it's just an APP on your iphone. So I think that's the other extreme of emobility. You can go to a whole new model of what cars are for us and so so it's crazy. The development of that and the Electric Society to me is is a crazy trajectory coming at US really fast. Yeah, I mean, Jeez, you hit on a lot of stuff there, but that you're right. It's pretty wild and you we see the we see the beginnings of all this around us and it's only going to get more advanced, and probably pretty quickly. Well, Jack, let's go to the next of you know the mega trends you've identified. I know you mentioned to me just the emergence of robotics and cobots in particular. So tell me how you see that playing into this electric society. It's it's another amazing one, Joe, and if sure fits with the people just don't know what...

...they don't know statement that I gave you earlier again, I'll go to our experience. Pretty simple story. You know, we've been watching this come along, reading a lot about it. We're an Automatian company, so it kind of fits our DNA to experiment with things and do this stuff. So back to our facilities. have been watching the fact that robotic lawnmowers have been marketed for the last five or ten years. So we bought five of them and we have an acre, two or three, I forget, I'm know about three acres around the building campus and have a traditional mowing service. Guys show up with their you know, the zero turns and very noy easy and they zoom around and they mow our lawn. But we we work with that landscape guy and said Lough, about if you cut out the main lower mowing and you just do the leaf blowing in a little bit of the edging and pick up sticks and just make a place look nice. Maybe do the plants, but we want to mow. We we're going to elect her mow autonomous most so we we buy these units, Husk of Barna by the way, and we'll Commercial Frost Co Barn and they mow whenever you want them to mow. They can mow at night, so I whoever see them. They can mowe during the day. They can mow in the rain. They have little GPS things on them in case someone tries to steal them. You know where it is. They they move frequently so that they're only taking a little bit off at a time. So all week long your lawn always looks like the day after it got mowed. Not It gets mode and then it looks like two days before it needs to be mowed. Right. So, so the appearance is better and the financials again blew us away. So we buy these things couple toozero plus, or depends on the model you're buying. YEAT THEM UP, ten grand or whatever. Well, the the lawnmower guy gave us a subtract and the subtract was about half of it. So then the payback was two years and then after that we're saving five six Grandi here just mowing our lawn. So we're kind of gone. That's that was easy and all it was was you put a little wire around the property where you wanted, like a dog fence, a pet ens, and then it, by the way,...

...parks itself at night and charges itself up and you do a little maintenance. Once every three months you go check on it, maybe replace the blades or small little blades, not big fancy heavy duty blades. Anybody can do it with a wrench. So you just watch out for him and take care of them. So we did that and actually had another podcast host come and do something with us a couple months back and when he saw it he said, oh my gosh, you guys are so into robotics and not you even to mow your lawn that way. We're like, well, that's the small part of it, right. We we're just learning. So but but it's amazing and anybody could do that. I mean there's nobody, but if you ask people, you say would you consider robotic law mowing, they go it's got the expensive I have a kid down the street mos lawn, you know, and I move myself. I like seeing the lines when I'm done. But if they would understand it, try it and realize they could get rid of their lawmo or never have to mow the lawn. Go do something more fun. I don't know. So so lawn mowers where it starts, and then you can get into the core of manufacturing. So we build Terminal Blox is one of our products. We have these automated production lines or about thirty feet long, cost a million dollars of build them. They metal parts, plastic parts are going moving around in there and it's assembling the Terminal Block and you get at the end and then it has to be packaged in a box and that part of a production process was not automated because that varies dramatically. The boxes are a little different and then you picking up the parts are different. So the theory one when that the lines were designed ten years ago was well, the operator fills the hoppers and gets it ready and programs the order and then they can be at the other end of the line and pack the products. Okay, well, that job of packing the products a little boring first of all. And these people that are operating these lines or tech skilled to your text and we make sure they're good good jobs, and it's kind of a boring part that they don't like it and it's a waste of their talents. So ten years ago we didn't have a choice. Today we get a COBOT put it on the end of the line. Yes, we have...

...an engineer to that had to work on it to get it ready, but now there's a cobot and it just packs the boxes. It picks the box assembles, it packs the boxes and now I ask the workers to whether they like working with a Cobot, they go this is the greatest thing I happened to us, because now we're not not to do that boring job of packing. The COBOT works great. They're in charge of the whole setup. Still, it's just another piece of automation and now they're more efficient. They can they can do other more important things. We can grow and yes, we add a few less people over time, but people are hard to find right generally speaking, when you're growing. So so we've put a cobot in. Guess what the payback was? You know the classics, about two three years. We got our money back and it's just saving US money every day after that. So from from robots in our lawn and our lawn the robots in our building. Those are just two we've done and we have several more being planned and deployed right now to take over those non value added function. But if you ask people, you say look, you know what a cobain is, they say yeah, they look at those cobots on the Internet and they say wow, I got expensive. I don't have people to put it in. There's many amazing system integrators out there right now that'll come in, deploy it, put it in there and then they'll even service it for you whatever, just like the people that could serve as Lawnmar and the way you go. And this to go back to the original story to end this part. The amazing thing was the law landscape company that mode mode our lawn when we came up with the idea. I said to my facilities leader I said, you know what, talk to him, tell me we want to do it. Tell them if they want to buy robots, the robotic Lewars, and put them in and then just charge us less but still make money on the service and then they change the blades and they make sure their work and they can own them. will do that. Just give me a proposal. The landscape guy said, not only do that, you can do it. So that's back to the you don't know what. You don't know. He was that scared of it. He didn't understand it. He was a little nervous about it. So anyway, that's the story on robotics and and we all...

...think robotics is the big iron on the automotive factory floor doing all those welding sparks man. That's you know, those big, big iron robots and those things are amazing and they do amazing things for this world, by the way. But this evolution of the other robotics right taken over tasks and a more flexible, intelligent way, is going to be a massive trend in this country for the next decade. Just massive trend. I think it's great stuff there, I mean, and I think if I have one takeaway it's that I'm going to leave after this interview and go file for an LLC to start a robotic land lawn mowing business in the same Louis area. So thanks for the idea. Yeah, you do that and I'll do it here. I all right to all right neighborhood, possibly regroup weekly and share insights and stories. You Bet awesome. Know that. It really, though, a lot of smart examples there and you you kind of brought up something that I just hear time and time again. I had, you know, recently had Scott Lind Aman, who's the CEO and mission design and automation on the show. I've had Eric Nave is from one robotics. I've had trying to take a few others that iron pray there from Fedex and you know, everybody kind of says the same thing, like this is not old or nothing. It's not. You don't have to go make some multimillion dollar investment to get started with robots. You start small, you find a small application, we can solve a problem or you can fill a need where labor is too hard to come by or, like you said, where it's a boring job that nobody wants to do, and then you readeploy your people and make better use their skills and give them better chances to advance in their careers rather than doing the grunt work. So a lot of good stuff you brought to the table there. Well, thank you. Awesome and I would I would throw out maybe one last one, if you will. Yeah, maybe, maybe a you US commercial, US resurgence story. But you know this this global geopolitical from tariffs to supply chains to pandemics. You know, I think we've all learned the world...

...economy is highly entwined, but I think we've all learned lessons. We need to maybe disintegrate a little bit instead of completely integrating everything. And maybe the US, as a manufacturing location, is going to researche quite a bit. The exciting part of that in the electric society is a little bit to my cobat story, but much bigger than just the COBAT. The whole development of industry, four point or IIOT and smart manufacturing, all those topics that you know a lot about, Joe. They're all converging pretty fast too, and are going to allow a clear reversal in the trajectory of manufacturing the US. We are about to see, and we are in the middle of seeing, a resurgence and and a recapitalization of this country to become a manufacturer once again. Now. We never were not. I mean we've always still built things, but there are many forces coming at us to allow us to build more things and more things and more things again, to the old footprint of manufacturing to a new footprint of manufacturing, a much smarter manufacturing environment. You get into that electrification of so many things, the the networking of so many things, the smart adaptation of so many things, that the manufacturing environment is going to be a much more exciting electrical environment to that's going to cause efficient, very efficient production of end items, much more efficient than it ever used to be. So in that that efficiency gain is huge for this country. It's huge for the world because the world will continue to grow and sustainable energy sources...

...can produce so much. But if we can add a massive efficiency layer indoor overall supply chain where we dramatically improve the efficiencies of what we do, then we get a huge improvement in decarbonization and then we get a huge improvement in just the need for electricity or the need for energy sources, and that's an exciting additional development of my opinion that that we're we are going to see this massive revitalization of the manufacturing world and changing of the paradigm of what that what that means. It's all a great point. What didn't I ask you about, Jack, that you'd like to communicate to our listeners before we put a wrap on it? I guess what I would like to communicate to manufacturing executives, to the engineering in community, is a little bit back to my original point about a lot of our customers just don't know what they don't know, and I think what they what we all can do, is do a lot of missionary work right now on these trends and on the possibilities of what can actually happen and it's it's needed more than before because it is such a strange new world coming at US right it's such such a different reality. Like think about the story again with the parents and the kid and the phone and not even own in a car, but they have a car. Any any example, cobots in your manufacturing facility, cobots in your warehouse. I think we got to do a lot of what you're doing, which is spread the word. We really got to keep talking about it and push it hard so that people believe in it, that they that they believe this stuff is true and once we get oh, I think that's what we're fighting right now. It's just a lack of belief, it really is. I think we're tired in manufacturing and we need we need a resurgence and we need enough people believing in...

...the future to get us there, to get people to follow and they get to change, to accelerate so that it feels like we're making progress. So that's probably my last message to everybody and to myself every day, is that we've got to keep telling our story. I agree fully with you and I think it's a great message, a sound Jack tell us where our audience can get in touch with you and where they can learn more about Phoenix contact. Well, we're pretty pervasive on all social media forms. Right even want to find the company on Linkedin or facebook. We're on both of those. Our website it's Phoenix contactcom. That's easy to locate the company. My name is Jack. Last name is NAYLIG ANY HLG at Phoenix CONTACTCOM. I'm on Linkedin. I do my best to respond to people. That's about where you can find the beautiful will. Jack, thanks for doing this today. This is awesome conversation at and I know that our listeners are going to get a ton of value from it. So appreciate you taking the time. Well, Joe, thanks for having me and hosting these forum so that we can all learn together. I really appreciate your leadership here. It is my pleasure well, as for the rest of you. I hope to catch you on the next episode of the Manufacturing Executive. You've been listening to the manufacturing executive podcast. To ensure that you never miss an episode, subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player. If you'd like to learn more about industrial marketing and sales strategy, you'll find an ever expanding collection of articles, videos, guides and tools specifically for bedb manufacturers. At Gorilla Seventy sixcom learn thank you so much for listening. Until next time.

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