The Manufacturing Executive
The Manufacturing Executive

Episode · 2 years ago

Be Careful With the Internet: How B2B Inbound Marketing Exploded w/ Brian Signorelli


It's 2010. Apple has just released a new product called the iPad. The Lakers just won their fifth championship under Phil Jackson. And the BP oil spill was all over the news. In the marketing world, a trending movement started to take hold. It was called inbound marketing.

Today, inbound marketing has exploded, and B2B businesses are taking the next logical step to inbound selling. Brian Signorelli, senior director of sales at Hubspot and author of the book Inbound Selling, joined this episode of the podcast to discuss the history and future of inbound. 

Brian and I talk about:

-Why inbound marketing's popularity spread so far

-Great resources to learn more about what inbound is and why it works

-Extending inbound marketing principles into the sales side of an organization

Resources we talked about:

-Inbound Marketing: Get Found Using Google, Social Media, and Blogs


-Inbound Selling: How to Change the Way You Sell to Match How People Buy


To ensure that you never miss an episode of The Manufacturing Show, subscribe on Apple Podcasts, or Spotify, or here.

If inbound marketing is any form of marketing design to develop someone's trust and kind of like at least get them to feel comfortable exchanging a little bit of information, like even their first and last name email. Inbound selling is literally the next step in that process. Welcome to the manufacturing executive podcast, where we explore the strategies and experiences that are driving mid size manufacturers forward. Here you'll discover new insights from passionate manufacturing leaders who have compelling stories to share about their successes and struggles, and you'll learn from B tob sales and marketing experts about how to apply actionable business development strategies inside your business. Let's get into the show. Welcome to another episode of the Manufacturing Executive podcast. This show is being brought to you by our sponsor, condinas part solutions. I'm Joe Sullivan, your host and a CO founder of the Industrial Marketing Agency guerrilla seventy six. So let's transport ourselves back in in time, about ten years. It's two thousand and ten. Apple had just released a new product called the IPAD. The Lakers it just won their fifth championship under Phil Jackson. The BP oil spill was all over the news and the marketing world there was a trending movement starting to take hold called inbound marketing. The term in bond marketing is common speak now, and it has been for a while, but I'd be willing to about that. Most of you in the manufacturing sector listening to this would have probably stared at me with glazed over eyes if I asked you to tell me what in bond marketing is ten years ago today. My guest is someone who is witnessed firsthand and also contributed to in a lot of ways, the explosion of in Bond Marketing in the BEDB world over the last decade. Brian Signal ally is the senior director of partner acquisition at hub spot. Whereas teams work with marketing, sales, CRM consulting another professional service companies to help them grow their own businesses and their clients businesses faster. He regularly writes, develops and presents inbound sales content for hub spots solution partners and their customers. He's been with hub spot since two thousand and twelve and as seen the company grow from five thousand customers through its two thousand and fourteen IPO to over eightyzero today. Prior to that, Brian worked as an analyst for a management consulting firm, as well as a small start up in the Boston area. He resides in Boston, Massachusetts with his wife Leah and their dog Dixie. Brian, it's been a while since you and I have talked and I've been looking forward to this conversation ever since you made my day a few weeks ago by agreeing to come on the show. So welcome a kidd thank you, Joe. Yeah, it's crazy that we first talked, I mean, you know, what about eight years ago now, and it's great to you know, been to stay in touch with you over the years and see your your business do well. And you know, it was great to get an invite from you to jump on the podcast. So I'm happy to happen to be all you today. So I guess before we get into this top pick of inbound, can you kind of briefly tell our listeners just a little bit more about... and your journey to this point and also for anybody listening who doesn't really know much about hub spot, which is probably a small percentage of people at this point, given the the brand's name at this point, but give us a little bit about you and and an overview of what hub spot is and what the software does. Yeah, absolutely, I'm happy to so. I think you know this, but so you know, I before I came to hub spot, I was actually a hubs at customer and I was work with a buddy of mine and his dad and a few other people were trying to get this little startup called gifts on time going and I was hired to basically be like kind of the head of sales, marketing other stuff, and you know how it goes with a small business. Kind of did everything and when I start working with them, the product was like just about to come to market and I okay, great, like we need to start like generating awareness and generate leads and website traffic and get sign ups and get some like revenue here, like because we've invested a lot, we want to get this business going. And I said, yeah, marketing lead Jen, like seems easy enough, like sure, I'll do that. It's really hard, obviously for anyone who you know has worked in the marketing profession or in sales, it's like really, really hard, and so we spent I mean I'm not kidding. We literally spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on website design. We hired in SEO specialist, we hired a paper click specialist, we did trade shows, we did advertisements and local newspapers, we did advertisements in national rags and all that type of stuff. We tried. We tried, literally felt like we tried literally every known outbound marketing to. I didn't know is called out by them, but I just was like this is what marketing is, and we tried every one of the tactics we thought marketing was and we just got crickets. Like it was two thousand two. This is like two thousand not or two thousand and ten. Actually this is two thousand and ten. So, you know, good intro. And we're just like this is crazy. How are we? How are we putting so much money and effort into all these marketing efforts and like literally getting nothing for it? And so we were. We were, frankly, we were down to our last ten or fifteen thousand dollars a budget that we had for marketing and we had a choice between hiring another marketing agency versus using hub spot on our own. And at the time we had decided to use hub spot. That's not to say that using an agency would have been a bad idea, but like they were, they were basically only managing that our social media profile. They were doing the trade show stuff, helping US design booths, like it was stuff that we were basically already doing and it wasn't. It wasn't fundamentally different. And so, anyway, we started using hub spot on our own. We, I think, within the first week of getting it up and running, writing our first blog post, our first call to action, our first landing page. We generated something like forty leads right away and I was like, oh my gosh, like this is amazing, this work so well. It ultimately, like ultimately six months in, like we didn't stick to it because it's hard.

It's hard to write, to write a lot of blog posts that are actually good and worth reading. It is really hard to develop premium content like ebooks, white papers, you know, diagnostic tools, like things that people are willing to give a little bit of constant information for. And so I'd certainly you know anyone who's considering or who hasn't, you know, adopted the cons of inboult marketing. I would highly encourage you to consider working with an agency unless you really feel like you've got a lot of time. A full of full staff that is like kind of mastered. This knows what they're doing, like is ready to go and you'd prefer to keep everybody at house anyway. Fast forward to today. I've been hubs software for eight years. I've been on the sales team for the entire time. I've worked with basically our marketing agency partners, are sales partners, are integration partners. I've held various roles as an individual contributor, different management rules and and yeah, it's been really cool to see hub spots kind of growth and journey, you know, over the over those past almost past decade now. So habit elaborate further, but that's probably more than you're betting on there now. That's great. So, I mean you've seen some serious changes to the marketing landscape, you know, not only inside your company and hub spot, but in general across the marketing landscape in the last eight or nine years or so. I'm and you know, as I suggested earlier, inbound marketing wasn't really even common language for most businesses back in the early two thousand and ten like what do you think drove this explosion of in terms of the acceptance of invent marketing, and it's the spread of its popularity. Yeah, so, you know, if you want the clock, I mean my take on this is that it just takes time for people to change and to kind of like get with the program and so if you think about don't worry, I'm not going to take you through a playbyplay the last twenty years. But if you think about the last twenty years, you know, the Internet only kind of became widely available like in the late s early S, and you know, people were highly suspicious of it. I mean I remember, like you know, I frankly I was probably a teenager or, you know, a kid. It was really a teenager at that point. I remember wanting to buy something off of Ebay and my mom was like be really careful with the Internet, like you don't know who's out there and and and it takes a long time for businesses to like realize that, okay, like what the Internet represents. It's not like it's not just like I need a website to like prove to people I exist in the world's it's, Oh my gosh, this is actually a way that it means. Really it was really Google that fundamentally transformed the way that we find information. I mean like the just think of the simple concept of like whenever you have any questions, I was like, Oh, I don't know about Bubba Blah, like just google it, just google it, just google it. Well, what that means for businesses is if you are not coming up in the search results on the first page when someone is asking questions that is relevant to your subject matter expertise, to your domain, to your products, to your services, if you're not showing up, then you don't exist. And... I think from two thousand, two thousand and ten, a lot of people were like yeah, like we need a website, like we need some digital presence, like I don't really know exactly what we're doing, we need something. And then I saw this kind of second wave of like Oh, we need content, but do you remember like probably two thousand, I don't know, five, two thousand and ten. There's a lot more content online, but a lot of it was like paid. So you had to pay like five hundred dollars or a thousand dollars or three thousand dollars for like for for content and then, you know, it wasn't hop spot necessarily. I think that like hup spot was part of that, but I think people started realizing like, oh my gosh, like we can actually start generating a bunch of like website traffic and leads if we give our content away for free, especially if it's of something of value to people. And so you know, the kind of evolution is like if you think about like sales and marketing in the context of the Internet over the past twenty years. You know, before Google, all the control was, frankly in the hands of sellers. Like if you're a buyer, you needed to call a company to actually get access to information, and the seller kind of a hide behind this cloak of you know, they're this kind of iron curtain of like well, you know, you need me to like understand what it is that you know we do and what your options are at such a google flip that equation, like all the power is now me, just the Internet, Google, whatever you everyone to refer to it, all the power shifted away from the cellar and into the hands of the buyer, and so now you know, I think business is of realized that, like because buyers can do all this research on their own. They can basically get answers to almost any question they want on their own without ever talking to a sales rep I think that's kind of what is what is driven this change and driven this adoption of embound marketing. Of like look like, if I want to exist, if I want anybody's attention, if I want anybody's interest, we need to actually be adding value in some some way that lines up with the way people, frankly, consume information these days, which is really through Google searches. That's that's really all it is. Yeah, I think you nailed it, anycause that's right on the money, you know, and the the shift in power from seller to buyer has just been so transformation. I mean there's just the expectation is now that you're going to be able to obtain this information and and if you're, if you're not the one publishing it, your competitor is. And who's going to you know, who's going to have the visibility? Who's going to be the first to gain trust and attention? Well, whoever's putting the insights out there right. Absolutely, absolutely, I mean, like you just you have to. You have to and you know we'll get to this but, like you know, you have to be adding value in some way that you know your competitor isn't or that you know is going to help your buyers kind of get to the wind up being ready to make a purchase, or even consider a purchase for that matter. And they're they're there. I mean why? I mean think, just think about the world we're living in. It's the age of convenience,... everything is available on demand. Why what? I ever pick up the phone to call a business to learn about them, when I can accomplish all of that on my own terms, in my own time, at any hour the day that I want, and so I'd much rather talk to the seven sales rep so to speak, which should be your website, as long as it actually has like meaningful blog content, resources, pricing information, and if I it's not, they're like I'm going to find it on Kora, I'm going to find it on other review sites, like I'm going to find it somehow, but I much rather do that on my own time and on my own terms then talk to one of your sales reps. frankly, and that's coming from someone who is or has been a sales rep, Yep, makes total sense and I think that the you know, the pushback that I've heard from time to time is, well, you can't replet you can't replace a salesperson, a real human conversation, with a website or with written content. But I think people are missing the point when they make that argument. You know, if your buyer is already out there looking for information on the owner and their own in the expectation is they're going to be able to obtain it. You need to be the one providing it and that contents not there to replace the human being. In a lot of cases, especially in complex you know, be to be buying processes right. There's but it's going to be the first step. It's the first step in the sale. Is the first interaction somebody has with you is going to be your content and whatever you're able to put out there online. And Not until you've earned enough of their their attention and trust that you know, maybe you understand their issue, you've seen it before, you've got you you could help them solve it. It's not until they have that sense of confidence that they're going to pick up the phone and call you right, absolutely, absolutely, like they're they're going to consume. I can remember the most recent staff from like the content marketing institute, but it's something like, you know, the average buyers going to consume, you know, seven to fifteen different pieces of content before they ever even engage with your sales up. So if you are making a really strong first impression and giving your perspective would be buyers access to information that they are looking for before they are even ready to talk to one of your sales ups, then you will never even your sales ups will never even have the APP bats, they'll never even have the chance to have that conversation. And that's the whole point. It's like, look, trying to replace sales ups. It's just if you want to give your sales ups as many APP bats as possible, you will do in bound content marketing like that is how people are generating leads these days. Yep, right on. We're going to take a thirty second breather here for a word from our sponsor, cadenus part solutions. Let's talk real quick about getting specified. Are you a component manufacturer? Maybe you sell architectural products to parks or large facilities. Engineers and architect x need models of your products to test fit in their designs. That's where condenis comes in. They help you create a dynamic, shareable cad catalog you put on your... Designers can preview the product from any angle and download it in the format they prefer. They get the data they need for their design and you get a fresh lead to add your marketing pipeline. To get one of your products turned into an online d model for free, use the code executive at part Solutionscom slash executive. Well, let's talk more about content for a minute while we're sort of on that topic. So I've been consulting manufacturers specifically now for about a decade and they manufacturers love talking about their products. They love talking about themselves and what they do and how great their customer services and I always say that there's absolutely a place for that, but it's not nobody wants that information until they are in the process of actually vetting you, and they need to first believe that you understand their issues and goals and and it's really those things that I believe your content needs to address. And so can you, can you talk a little bit from your perspective, Brian, about what you know what role you think content should play and especially during those early stages of an oft and long and complex buyers journey. Absolutely so, are you familiar with I mean, like I read this book probably a year or two ago. That just like I have not been as ex cited about a book since I learned like what about marketing was and read like Brian Halligan to Darmes Shah's in about marketing. Are you familiar with story brand by a chance, like Don Miller? Yes, so this one just like popped from me. I'm like, oh my gosh, like he's got it right. Okay, so here's the thing. The premise of that book is basically, look like you need to clarify. You need to clarify your message to your buyers and where we're most businesses get it wrong with content marketing or just really marketing in general, is that they view themselves as the hero in the heroes journey and you need to flip that equation. So like briefly walk you through it. I've got infographic pulled up just so I remember. Seven stages of the seven ish stages of the Hero's journey. There is a character the hero, who has a problem, who meets a guide, and that guy gives them a plan part four. Then the guide calls them to action step five, and that step six results in either realizing their hopes, their dreams, their goals, or ends in tragedy that they're trying to avoid. Right. And what really just popped to me was that where most businesses get it wrong is that they view themselves and it's reflected, frankly, like when you said you know these companies that want to talk about their products and how great they are and their services and how awesome they are. That is a reflection of you thinking that you are the hero in the buyers journey. You are not the hero in the buyers journey. Your customer is the hero and the buyers journey and your content needs to take them through that journey. You are simply than God. So, like your customers, your customers are look Skywalker, you are...

Yoda as the business doing all your marketing. I think that that is the that's like the main thing that that business is missed. It's like, look, you need to need to basically paint this picture to help your customers understand that like you understand them, that you are giving them a very like you understand what they're what their fears are. You understand what their challenges are. You have a plan. You are calling them to action to execute on that plan, and if they execute on that plan, they will realize their hopes, their dreams, their business me their business gools, whatever, what of those success outcomes they're looking for. That is the role that your business should be playing in that kind of you know, in that Heroes Journey and, and it might sound crazy, but I'm telling you, take a page out of the Hollywood playbook for how movies are written. Apply that to her. On Marketing, I am like a hundred and ten. All my chips are in on that concept of like how businesses should be thinking about marketing these days. Yeah, I love I love story brand. I stumbled across it through a few different sources probably six months ago as well, and read and immediately loved it. I think it's a perfect analogy really, and it said such a logical thing to to think about. You know, it's about your customer, right, like there's such a cliche and business, but then people don't practice it. So I love having an analogy that you know is about making the customer the hero. You're there to guide them. Your Hellard you're here to help them understand their problem figure out different ways to get to the solution, and that's the role of your content. So like to make it a little more tangible. Talk to me a little bit about about content. What could content be for a business to business company, like what role or what what form could that take? You know, like I love Marcus Sheridan's stuff, right are he talks about like problem based content and comparison content and review based content, like what, what do you see? That works? It's super simple. Yeah, I've been saying this for eight years. Yeah, at least, you know, two thousand and ten, well, two hundred when I started up spot, and obviously I had the problem of saying like Hey, like, you know, I've knows your what's doesn't have a blog, and people like basically laughing me out of the room, being like what well, there's laughing now. However, for people who would actually are Tanser, like okay, look like, all right, I'll blog, like I'll just, like I'll, I'll, I'll take a bet on you, like I will blog. I have a problem. What do I blog about? What I write, Bick whate, what contents I write about. And I said, this is going to sound overly simplistic, but I'm telling you, this is exist. This is what works. You should write content that answers the questions that your prospects are asking. So, like, think about the the easiest way to generate like your next hundred blog articles is to sit down with your sales team, with your support team, your customer service team, and just say hey, look like tell me the top two or three most common questions that you're getting from our prospects, from our customers, whoever it... And I guarantee you that, like all you do is you take, you take, okay here, like you take what their questions are. You then flip, you flip the question into a statement. So, for example, like you know, someone will for hub spot might be saying, like you know, I'm really struggling to like generate more leads. How do I generatey? How do I generate more leads? The blog article itself or like an Ebook or white pat whatever, like whatever kind of premium because of content. would be something like five proven strategies to generate more leads to your website. It's literally just taken the question, flipping it around, making it a statement. And then the best part is if you know what you're talking about, and you should, because whatever questions are asking you, your company should be, you know, a subject matter expert in and if you don't have people who are good writers, again hire Joe and his team. You just literally answer the questions that people are asking. It's a very simple equation. You need to overthink this. Of course, there's a bunch of finer points of you know, content architecture and making sure that your website is optimized to know to get found and you're promoting the conference. There's a lot more that goes to it. You can't just write a blog articles be like okay, I'm done, I can walk away. But in terms of getting the the meat of it, it's literally just answering the questions that people are asking, because your hope is when they are googling some question that they have, you want to show up first, second, third, just not any later than ten, but like, hopefully in the top ten. Is when you're going to show up. And if your answers are showing up when they're asking Google questions, then guess who's going to get the attention your business, not your competitor. Yep, absolutely nailed it. And you know, if you're, let's just say you're a manufacture you're a automation service provider, something like that, you know, and you hear from your customers and struggling with downtime on the plant floor. You know, cost of labor or whatever it is. Now you address that that way. You know, here are ways you can reduce downtime. There's your blog post. Right, five, five proven ways reduced down time or something like that, like there's there's a million ways to do it. But let your let those common questions that your sales seems hearing over and over again and those things that you're those problems you're trying to solve your customers from the foundation of your content. And now when you start, people will find you, they'll there will be context for a conversation with them when it gets to that point. So it's a perfect framework. Yeah, so simple, right? Yep, it is very simple. Right. So you publish your book in bound selling in two thousand and eighteen, where you sort of extend these principles of inbound marketing into the sales side of an organization. Can you talk a little bit about. You know what, what's the topic of the book? What is inbound selling? Me Is supposed to inbound marketing. Yeah, I mean in bound selling is really just sort of like, okay, well, if inbound marketing is any form of marketing design to develop someone's trust and kind of like at least get them to feel comfortable exchanging a little bit of information, like even their first in last named email,...

...inbound selling is literally the next step in that process. So if you're changing the way you're doing marketing and you're starting to generate these kind of inbound leads to your website, what where I've seen most businesses really fail is that they might be very successful generating a lot more website traffic, generating a lot more inbound leads, but then the sales team is like these leads are garbage, like I can't sell to these people. And the reality is, sure, are some of the leads garbage? Yeah, they probably are. But I think the problem is that most sales people, and this is not true everywhere of course, but like, certainly over the past ten years, sales people have had to adopt the way they actually think about engaging leads. It's not like the cold call, the pitch like hey, no, I caught you out of the blue, but like you have five minutes of talk. That's not what it's about. Like that's not how you approach an inbound lead. So the idea of the book in bound selling is really just a reflection. I mean it's literally the hub spot sales playbook. It's everything that I've learned at hub spot over the past you know well, I publish a two years ago, so you know the first five years a hub spot. Everything that is in that book is still true for how hub spot sells today and are really kind of guides businesses through rethinking the way that their sales team needs to engage buyers in the age of convenience, in the age of content marketing, to make you to make sure you're getting the most out of those investments. And you know, it goes on too and talks a little bit about kind of cross functional alignment, about managing sales teams, developing people. I had a really kind of Funky but I thought interesting chapter from a sales futurist named Derek Wizinski. The last chapter's kind of talking about this dystopian future of sales and where we could theoretically be heading in the next, you know, twenty or thirty years. But yeah, that's that's really it. It's just sort of like all right, look, marketing's done its job. It's done a nice not everyone, but you know, it feels like a lot of people at certainly today, have kind of like moost people got with the program. They're like, okay, good, like got it. Website should be more than just like a brochure. It should be a lead generator, it should be an educator for my potential prospects. In bound selling is literally just that. Extensions, the next up of like okay, great, like you're doing all this work, you made a huge investment to like actually get more website traffic and leads. Don't screw it up. Make sure your sales team actually understands how to work these leads, because it's, frankly, it's a bit it's a bit different than what they are used to, especially if they, you know, have been around the block a few times and of sold from say, like, I don't know, the year one thousand nine hundred and ninety through the year two thousand and ten, like the way sales work. Then there are a lot of things that are still true today, certainly, but there are a lot of things that aren't true that you have to do differently today. And and that's kind of what in bound selling gets out the heart of what such an important topic. And I see this really time and time again. I see this disconnect between marketing and sales and in the manufacturing companies that we consult, where what you said is exactly true, that...

...they're used to maybe leads like a request to quote lead or like an Rfq form submission is so different than somebody who is, say, downloading a white paper or subscribing to your newsletter. But you know, I say, a more traditional salesperson is inclined to kind of just treat it the same way. Oh, I have a new lead, I'm going to call them and try to sell them something. Not Going to work right. And so, yeah, I think it's a great topic. I think it's a book everybody should check out, because I see this literally ninety percent of the time, like there's an adjustment to be made to selling this way when you start to really you know, see that inbound funnel start working for you right so well, you know what, Brian, last question I'll ask you here. You know, lots changed in the last ten years or so, as we've talked about. Like where do you where do you see things headed next with BDB, marketing and sales? Yeah, so three things I'll touch on for that, and I've thought a lot about this for, I guess, the past decade and try to pay attention to, like, you know, what business is doing, where things are going. I think one thing that you're going to see more and more of, and you're already starting to see more of, is, now that everyone's doing content marketing, how do you stand out? And I think that one of the things that you'll see more and more businesses doing over the next, you know, two, three, five years, is creating primary research, doing original research studies on their own and creating insights and creating original information that no one can find anywhere else. That is one of like the main key's, I think, to standing out today and frankly, as a sales up like one of one of the things I always tell my sales team is like look, if you cannot provide information to your prospect that they that they can find on their own or that they would be able to find on their own otherwise, then you buy definition have no value. So if you're writing blog content that like is kind of well known about topics that have kind of been established and there's like kind of information insight that like, frankly, you can get on fifteen other you know, fifteen other websites, you're not going to stand out. So I think one at one thing you'll see and it's hard, but I think there would be more kind of original research done and I think the companies that do that will really stand out. The second thing, and this is you might remember a guy by the name of Peak Kapudda. He's the CEO of data box. He was the founder of the agency partner program a hub spot. He clude me into a another marketing strategy that they've had phenomenal success with and he said, you know, I think he said, I think the place that a lot of marketers are getting it wrong today is that they think they should be marketing to their audience. And he's like, I think that's wrong. They should actually be marketing with their audience. And so what he does is he basically, you know, like we said, we have a bunch of these kind of like questions that prospects are asking, but instead of answering these questions himself at data box, he actually sends these questions out to all of his like newsletter subscribers, his customers, and says hey, like, I'm writing a blog article. I'm looking for experts like you to contribute some of your thoughts to this.

You know, would you? Would you be interested in writing a little snippet? Will feature you on our blog, so on so forth. The really cool part about that is you know you're making your prospects and your customers kind of, I wouldn't say famous, but like giving them a little bit of street cred with their peers. You're also offering to drive an imbound link back to their website, and often they will do the same for you, which kind of helps you drive warm a marketing. I think it's in a really early stage, but I think pete is onto something and and I can't say that I've seen a ton of businesses adopt this yet. I mean I know you see a lot of these like roundups and like you know, insights from the top ten influencers and Bla Blah. I think businesses are getting clor marketers are getting closer to the right strategy. I think you're going to see more and more that overtime is, you know, stop marketing to your audience, market with your audience. I think that's like an interesting paradigm shift. And then the third thing that I would point to is I think so many businesses are missing the mark with leveraging their customer base as a source of frankly, new business. Like, if you think about how hard it is to win new accounts versus grow existing accounts or you know, it's not to say that you know, you you want to rely, surely, on net new legend to grow your business, but your your customers, have already made the investment, they've already taken the bet on you, they've already had, hopefully, an amazing experience with you. And so I just think that there's you know, and I see it a little bit in BTC. I mean, you know companies like, you know, Uber, Zoom, Slat. I mean like there's all these business even the BTC APPS. I mean you know, it's always like here's your referral code, refer a friend, get ten, fifteen dollars off whatever. I'm not suggesting that industry manufacturers should be offering fifteen dollar redemption codes to like make referrals, but I and I don't know what's right. I'm not an expert in that space, but I would challenge you all to think. You know, what more can we be doing to drive awareness for business by turning our customers into promoters of our business in a way? That balance is the value equation, where, like, what do they get in exchange for what they're giving? I don't know exactly what that looks like. Probably take some creative people to figure that out, to think through it. But like, don't underestimate the value of your customer base, because they are the ones that have orready made that bet on you. Like figure out how to turn them into promoters of Your Business, and that will continue powering the kind of fly will that we talked about. It up spot great answers, really thoughtful response and you know, per your numbers two and three. They're like. What I really like is they're both about. There's your delivering value and getting something in return, like just through partnerships and relationships right where you creating content with your with your potential customer, you're putting the spotlight on them. It's not that different from a podcast where you might be interviewing, you know, potential future customers so that you can hear from them, build a relationship with them, learn you know. Then their peers can...

...learn from that and and it's sort of spreads. And your in your last example, you know, leveraging those relationships with clients, creating value for them in some way and they are happy to return that to you. So I think you're onto something. I think I think it's right on the money. She'll see. We'll see. Well, awesome, Brian, great conversation. Really appreciate you you coming on. They're just a lot of a lot of really great insights from somebody who's been there to see the the rise and explosion of inbound along the way. I'm sure it's been an interesting perspective being inside of hub spot, who's really was kind of kind of been at the forefront of all this. Can you tell listeners where they can connect with you online, where they can find your book inside in bound selling, and also where they can learn more about hub spot? Yeah, absolutely, I think that connect with anybody on Linkedin. There are as hard as it maybe believe. There are more. There are multiple Bryan signarellies online. No kids. So yeah, just make sure that if you connect with me, I'm pretty sure I'm the only one in the Boston area. So I am in Boston, Massachusetts. Yeah, so Linkedin, Brian Signare Elli happy to connect with with anybody? Yeah, the book in bound selling is available on Amazon, bunch of other places. Amazon's probably the easiest if you want to check it out. It's also an audio book if you prefer audio books. And Yeah, hub spot, hub spotcom or you know, reach out to me through Linkedin. I'm happy to get you connected with anybody who you know can answer questions you might have or help you in some way. We also have a bunch of free products if you want to try before you want to talk to anybody. We try to walk the walk on that. So, yeah, beautiful. Yeah, up spot definitely practices what they preach. So there's a lot of great resources you can find. They're just just for learning purposes, even before you'd be ready for the software potentially. So well, before we wrap it up, I want to say a big thank you to our sponsor, condeen's part solutions, for helping make this show possible. All right. Well, Brian, thanks a ton for joining again, great conversation and for the rest of you. I hope to catch you on the next episode of the Manufacturing Executive. Thanks, Joe. You've been listening to the manufacturing executive podcast. To ensure that you never miss an episode, subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player. If you'd like to learn more about industrial marketing and sales strategy, you'll find an ever expanding collection of articles, videos, guides and tools specifically for bedb manufacturers at Gorilla Seventy sixcom learn thank you so much for listening. Until next time,.

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