The Manufacturing Executive
The Manufacturing Executive

Episode · 1 year ago

Breaking the Stigma on Podcasting w/ James Carbary

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Video- and- audio-based content humanizes the people behind the information. You can see someone's face in a video or hear their voice in a podcast. They suddenly become a real person to you. Yet, manufacturing marketers are slow to embrace content that moves outside of print.

We're missing out on a lot!

In today's episode, I talk with James Carbary, founder of Sweet Fish Media, about why podcasting creates powerful marketing experiences and tools.

Here's what we discussed:

  1. How audio content can humanize your company
  2. Content-based networking, how to reverse engineer the exact relationships you want to develop
  3. Why podcasting is not all about audience growth (and what it IS all about)


To ensure that you never miss an episode of The Manufacturing Executive, subscribe on Apple Podcasts, or Spotify, or here. 

Relationships, or the lifeblood of business and of life, and this framework really walks folks through. How do you reverse engineer those relationships instead of sitting back and waiting on serendipity to bring these relationships to you? Welcome to the manufacturing executive podcast, where we explore the strategies and experiences that are driving midsize manufacturers forward. Here you'll discover new insights from passionate manufacturing leaders who have compelling stories to share about their successes and struggles, and you'll learn from B tob sales and marketing experts about how to apply actionable business development strategies inside your business. Let's get into the show. Welcome to another episode of the Manufacturing Executive podcast. I'm Joe Sullivan, your host and a cofounder of the Industrial Marketing Agency guerrilla seventy six. So you're a podcast listener. Maybe this is your go to podcast, and if so, I'm flattered, but more likely you've got a few, or maybe even many, podcasts that you listen to regularly. Regardless, you are a podcast listener, but have you thought about whether or not you could be a podcast host or, if not, you could someone on your team do it? Because I can promise you this. As intimidating as it might sound, it's far less difficult to pull off and you might imagine, and the benefits are immense. So in this episode we're going to attack the stigma that podcasting isn't for us as a manufacturing organization, and twenty five minutes or so from now, I hope that you'll at least see the possibilities. Today, my guest is the owner of what I believe is the best podcasting agency out there. Need some social proof? Well, I hired them to produce our own show that you're listening to right now. James Carbury's podcast, BB growth has been downloaded over three million times and is a top ranked podcast according to Forbes. James has interviewed World Class thought leaders like Gary Vander Chuck and Simon Senek, and has been a contributor for Hoffington Post. Entrepreneur and business insider. When James isn't writing a book or running his business, you can find him sipping Cherry Cooke zero, eating red vines liquorice and trying to figure out how he somehow convinced the most incredible woman in the planet to marry him. James Welcome to the show. I'm super pumped to be here, Joe. This is going to be a really, really fun conversation. Yeah, I'm super excited for this. Obviously a topic of passion for both of us here, and you in particular, as a podcasting guy, and so well, for any regular listeners this podcast. In case you're thinking how that voice sounds a little bit familiar, it might. Might be because James's voice is the voice of our shows, intro and outro book ends. So the so yeah, the Bio that James gave me that I just, you know, read, didn't specifically state it, but he's also the the owner and founder of sweet fish media, which is the company that produces this podcast. And James said, Hey, I'd love to do your intron Outro, you know, to the episode. I said, Heck Yeah, let's do it. So awesome. Yeah, I love doing I love doing these intros and Outros and I get told all the time that I've got a I've got a face for radio, so I figured it might as well work on my voice for Radio too. Hey. Yeah, there you go. I think you nailed it on our show. So cool. Before we dive in here, I'd love for you to tell our listeners just, you know, a little bit more about you and how you want up or yard today. I've heard your story a few times and I think it's worth telling to our listeners. So if you want to kind of, you know, give at least the cliff notes version of that, I think it would be great. Yeah, so I started our little marketing agency back in two thousand and fifteen and we were basically a blog writing shop and we got about nine months in to that business. It was the first business that I'd ever run that actually made money and it wasn't making all that much money. And so nine months in I was trying to figure out who actually is our ideal buyer, because...

...we were kind of we are selling this blogging service, but we're selling it to everybody. If you were big, if you were small, be TOBBTC, didn't matter. If you've you were bought in on content marketing, we would help you write your blog. And got about nine months in and realize that we had one particular customer that was a fantastic fit. Are Our writing team loved working with them. I of working with them. We were getting phenomenal results for them and I thought man, what if this could be our niche? They were their particular type of nonprofit. There were small churches, like kind of startup churches, they call him church plants in that world, and I was like, man, what if we started working with a bunch of church plants, because we could replicate what we're doing for for this church in pretty much every city in America and we could build a really nice business. And so, as I was thinking through that, I was like, well, what's the best way for me to build relationships with all of these church planters? I didn't want to just, you know, do cold outbound, though I I don't I'm not necessarily against that. We do cold outbound still, but I wanted a more effective way to build meaningful relationships with people that could potentially buy our service. And so as I was thinking about it, it made me think about a podcast that I had been doing with my friend, just kind of in my spare time, called inspiring awesome, and with that show, anybody that I asked to be a guest on that show said yes to me. Like they didn't. They didn't ask how big the listenership was, they didn't they didn't ask anything. Just the novelty of being a guest on a show was valuable enough for them to want to engage with me and to say yes. And so I thought, what if I applied that to this? What if I reached out to a hundred church planners that didn't know me from Adam to be on a show that didn't even exist yet? How well would that work? And sure enough, it worked out really, really well. Most cold email responses, I think you get less than a one percent reply rate. We got an eighty percent reply right on that email campaign asking people to be a guest on what we ended up calling the show plant better. About forty five of those people ended up doing interviews with us and we found out really quickly that church planners don't have any budget for content marketing. So kind of face palm emoji in real life on that one. But it was a huge realization for me because coming out of that I realized, man, churches can't afford content marketing services, but BETOB companies can, especially if they have a lifetime value, if the lifetime value of their customers twenty fivezero dollars or more. Our service that we could provide in terms of producing this podcast and repurposing it in a lot of different content could be really helpful for them. So that was the genesis. You know, in January of two thousand and sixteen, we pivoted our agency into being a BDB PODCAST agency and we've been riding the wave of the momentum of the podcasting industry since then. And Yeah, so it's been a really fun ride, but that's how we got started. That's a great story. I love it. James is, I think you know, at Gorilla we've been huge advocates for a long time of tapping into the knowledge of subject matter experts, in our case, that manufacturing companies who we work with, extracting their expertise turning the content into content that will attract and engage prospects and open the door to sales conversations and enable their sales seems to be more effective. And what I've seen is that over the last ten years or so, most most manufacturers who have actually embraced this philosophy, which isn't that many, frankly, in this space it's a the industries lagging versus, you know, Sass or professional ser uses. But the manufacturers who have embraced this philosophy of being a resource rather than just talking about themselves and their marketing. Most of them have done it in the form of written content, blog post, white papers, maybe some guest authorship in industry journals. The thing I love about this medium, podcasting, really video and audio based content, is that it humanizes the people behind the content. You can see someone's face, you can hear their voice. In the case of a podcast, they suddenly become a real person to you, and so I'm curious to you could kind of talk about the power of the podcasting medium from from that standpoint. Yeah, so it not only does it humanize you, but it actually meets the person that you're trying to communicate with...

...where they are. When you look at the consumption of a blog post, it's much you have to be deeply engaged with that blog post. You can't read a blog post while you're driving, or at least I hope you're not reading blog post while you're driving. You're probably not doing it while you're doing dishes or mowing the yard, but when you're on the subway, when you're driving your car, when you're mowing the yard, when you're doing dishes, when you're just picking things up in your kids play room, you've often got your air pods in your ears listening to either a book or a podcast, and and what I love about the medium is that companies can now meet their buyers in those moments, in those places where they would typically not be communicating to their buyers. Now they can through this medium, because people are consuming podcasts in a variety of different areas and parts of their lives. So, James, last year you published an absolutely phenomenal book titled Content Based Networking, and I read it the week it came out and it was the final Straw for me. That kind of put me over the edge and maybe say, okay, I need to stop mulling over this idea of launching a podcast, which I've been thinking about doing for a year, and just do it. Haven't looked back, but can you explain the concept of content based networking, because there's there's so much value there and it's been it's really the reason why I ultimately decided to embrace this. Yeah, so for me, I even it's funny, Joe, I hate the word networking, but I just couldn't think of a better way to describe what the true essence of this thing is. I mean it's relationship based, it's people, and when I think about the most significant things that have happened in my life, they've all happened as a result of me having certain relationships with people. And so content based networking is really just a system of process, a framework, I guess you could say, to reverse engineer the exact relationships that you want to develop. I think so. So often we sit back and we hope for these ideal relationships to just fall into our lap. And this is whether you know whether you're a CEO of a manufacturing company, whether you're a sales are APP for a manufacturing company, whether you're in administrative role in the back office of a manufacturing I mean, it doesn't really matter in any company really. Outside of man investoring, inside of manufacturing, relationships or the lifeblood of business and of life. And this framework really walks folks through. How do you reverse engineer those relationships instead of sitting back and waiting on serendipity to bring these relationships to you? You don't have to do that. You can proactively go and create these relationships. And and so you first got to figure out what are your goals? What are you trying to accomplish? Who are the people that you want to connect with that can help you reach those goals? And then you've just got to go and create content with those people, and by creating content with them, you're naturally going to build a relationship with them, just simply through the collaborative process of creating content with them. It doesn't have to be a podcast. It could be on blog content, it could be on video content, it could be, you know, whatever. Like the content is almost in consequential. Doesn't really matter to me. What matters so much is that you're proactively reaching out to people to try to create and build meaningful relationships with them. Yeah, it's a really great concept. So, you know, manufacturing people who are listening right now, I put you think about this from your perspective. You know, there's there's a buying committee you're trying to reach at that the types of companies that you're serving, and there are people that you know. Frankly, you pick up the phone, you start cold calling. It's it can be pretty challenging, you know, to get through to the people you're trying to reach into have a meaningful conversation with them. For I mean for five men. It's a let alone thirty, that you know you probably need to have a real meaningful conversation. But when all of a sudden you can start, you know, reaching out to these people, inviting them into your content creation process, by putting the spotlight on them, hearing their story, look, you know, learning what what things matter to them.

You kind of said it earlier change, but people say yes, and I found the exact thing to be true. I mean, I've had had CEOS of manufacturing companies on this show. I've had private equity from partners. I have had leaders of industry organizations that probably never would open my email frankly now. But you know, I've had them here on the show. I've built relationships with them that's led to introductions to others and and in the process of doing so, I'm I'm creating value for our organization and for theirs. So it's really a win when you just you reposition how people perceive you. And and in your case, Joe, you know you're the owner of an agency. So I'm sure a lot of the folks that you're reaching out to they're getting hit up by lots of different agencies and and but instead of them perceiving you as an agency owner this trying to sell them something now, because you're coming to them asking them to be a Gaston the manufacturing executive. They now see you as a journalist in the space, somebody WHO's trying to lift up the community of manufacturing, that the industry of manufacturing, to help progress it and push it forward, and you're asking them to be a part of that with you. And so it just completely changes the frame that people view you in and it makes it so that they actually want to engage with you, as opposed to just deleting your email as soon as they see it hits area in box. That's exactly right and it's been my experience. So it's and and a lot so many people think will if the show, if the show doesn't have many listeners, like ore, why would people want to talk to me? Is Crazy. But like the show that our referenced in the story or in the story that I mentioned earlier, that show didn't even exist yet. We didn't even have like cover art. The show wasn't even in Apple podcasts or itunes at the time and and people still said Yes to being on this show. So it was you know, it's wild, but it's human psychology for you. Yeah, well, and that's actually a really good lead into the next question I was going to ask you, which is another argument against well, you know what, if there's only a hundred listeners to the shower or even less. Well, one thing I love about the podcasting medium is how extendable the content is, and I think you wrote an article about this, James, something like about a content waterfall. That it was a concept that really resonated with me and we've embraced it with our with our own podcast. We help our clients do this with the webinars they run and and written content that they create, but I think the podcast is a perfect medium for creating this amazing asset that can then be broken down into other things and used in many places. Can you talk about that a little bit? Yeah. So the another powerful, powerful element of a podcast is that you, especially when you record it on video, like what we're doing right now, you can slice and dice that content into so many different things, like you just mentioned, and so this thirty minute conversation that we're having on Zoom right now, we can probably turn this into seven or eight different micro videos, you know, one to two minute clips of either you or I talking riffing on a particular topic. We can turn that into graphics that we could use on twitter or on Linkedin or instagram. We can there's just so many different things you can do with it. Right I mean it's audiograms or micro videos or visual assets or blog posts. In an addition to the what like all of that, like the content that comes off of this thing. The other thing is just you're actually getting rich, really rich customer insights from the people that you're talking to, like your understanding how their brain thinks about things, what they're challenged by, what they're excited by, and that kind of stuff just doesn't happen in a lot of other ways. I mean, for the folks listening to this, maybe you're not leading a marketing team, but I would venture to say that the person that is leading your marketing team, if they're like the the marketing teams that I work with, they're pretty isolated from customers. When you ask them like how often do you actually talk to customer? Sales talks to customers a lot, but marketing doesn't tend to actually...

...talk to customers that much. This medium allows you to do that too. So, in addition to just the wealth of content that you're creating from a simple third aty minute interview, variety of different formats, different links. Your simultaneously giving your marketing team really, really rich insights from directly from the mouths of people that buy your product. That's that's a really great point. So, I mean, you think about it. Your podcast is marketing, your podcast is customer research, your cuss, your podcast is relationship building and nurturing of prospects. Yeah, and all the stuff. It's just so many benefits come from one medium. So Yep, so, James, that gorilla. We've specialized in marketing from manufacturers for the better part of the last decade and one thing that's become very clear to me is that, be to be manufacturing organizations are much more sales driven than they are marketing driven. That's that's I feel very comfortable stating that as fact at this point. And what I've observed is that marketing technology, from software to utilizing new mediums like video and podcasts, usually comes with the pretty slow adoption curve. So I'm just wondering what can you tell listeners help offset some of that intimidation that I know a lot of them feel around the idea of launching a podcast and I think if I would encourage them to just start, and I think when you start, when you just get started, you can you can hire a firm like ours and you can do you can do things like that. And this is going to sound like I'm shooting our own business in the foot, but I think if you just come out of the gate and start, they're free tools you can use, like anchor, that is the host for your show. You can literally record the episodes right there on your phone and then get it uploaded apple, podcast, spotify, all the different players from that one single APP. I think you can get like a fifty or sixty dollar mic on Amazon. There's tons that you can google a list of mics that you can buy. But this stuff doesn't need to be super complex. Like you need a place to host the audio file, which, again is what anchor can do. We use sounder DOT FM and that's what we advocate for all of our clients to use. I think there's a little bit of a cost to it, but anchors totally free. So just try. I would say even even before you launch the show, think about three to five people that you would want to do business with and just ask them like, Hey, I'm thinking about starting a show about x topic. Would you be up for being one of my first guests? And just just get a get a fuel for whether people would want to collaborate with you on content, and I think you'll see how easy it actually is. You can, you can get into the weeds and figure out that a man using riverside instead of zoom for our video capture, you know, gets us, you know, higher quality video or you know all of the like the nuances in the details. You can figure that stuff up out later. Just go just start, start reaping the benefits from it. Start understanding like, Oh man, I'm really getting some really meaty insights from our buyers, or I'm able to make intros for our sales team that I never would have been able to before. And when you start to realize that, you'll figure out that the details of it, the things that you were tripping yourself up for in your head, really aren't that big of a deal in the big scheme of things. Yeah, that's all really good stuff. I mean you can almost just forget about the technology in the short term, right and just just like we're just doing a zoom right now this is a zooming everybody was listening this. Given to what two thousand and twenty was, it is probably used to do in this. So you hit record and that's it. And Yep, and then, and then you'll once you realize you've got three or five really good recordings under your belt, you're going to be motivated to figure out the simple technology things because you've got this great content that you're going to want to get out there. So, Yep, it's really less. I mean, I'm speaking as somebody who was in the in that position, you know, as recently as seven, eight months ago, where it sounded super intimidating to me. I just went with it and I'm realizing, I mean, this is this very natural just having natural conversations with...

...people, and the technology is not nearly as bad as I would have guessed. So, YEP, you're exactly right. And I think, man for the folks that are listening to this. I mean that you're a senior level leader at a manufacturing company. I just that I cannot overstate the importance of the insights that you are going to gain by actually having conversations with your customers. Is specially because of two thousand and twenty. I don't know. In the manufacturing industry, I would imagine events aren't happening for a while still. And so in an environment where you used to be able to meet up with folks in person, what a fantastic shift for you to say hey, we can't go to conferences, but I don't want to. I don't want to slow down the relationships that I'm building as a senior executive in this company, and so let's do it virtually and and this medium is so perfect for that. It is really well said, James. Is there anything that we did not touch on during this conversation that you'd like to add before we wrap it up? I think, and this is this is a little bit of maybe one, maybe two hundred and one, I don't know it I straddle between, like whether this is podcasting one hundred and one or two hund and one. I think it's actually one hundred and one. It's that important that when you're thinking about your show, this is a mistake that I see so many companies making. They and this this it comes from what you alluded to earlier, Joe, which is taking a being much more heavy on the sales approach. Is opposed to marketing. So many companies want to brand or name the show around themselves or around their own expertise, when in reality, if you want to be able to use the show to meet people that could you could potentially do business with, you need to make the show about them. So our show, for example, our podcast, is called be to be growth. We did not name it the be tob podcasting show because none of our ideal buyers, VP's of marketing at be TOB SASS companies with fifty blus employees, would want to be a guest on that show because they don't know anything about be to be podcasting. That's why they hire sweet fish to do it for them, because they don't know that much about bed podcasting. So the same is true of you it. Your ideal buyers don't know the INS and outs of what you do. That's why they're your customer. That's that's why they pay you that stuff. So instead you need to make it about them. You've done a brilliant job with this with your show, Joe the manufacturing executive. Your show is not about marketing, because a lot of your clients, they're coming to you because they need help with marketing. So in but but it's a common mistake that so many companies make and I would I would challenge everybody listening to this to just be very thoughtful about how, how do we want to name and brand our show? How can we make it about our ideal customer instead of making it about us? Yeah, great, great add there, and I took Frank I took your advice from you, from your firm. As we were you're helping US launch our show and I was going to name it something more industrial marketing related and teach about industrial marketing, which some of the content falls into that bucket. But but really what you know, the direction you guys pushed me in was call it something about named after the person you're trying to reach. Well, once the name the manufacturing executive, right and YEP, and and we're hitting, hitting on things that manufacturing executives care about from a variety of perspectives. marketings one of those things, but it's also leadership, yeader, should it could be another element out of it. Like there there's a lot of different there's a lot of different elements to being a leader to manufacturing company, absolutely outside of marketing, and I think we're afraid to speak to those different areas. But the reality is our buyers care about those things. Yeah, and so if our buyers care about them, we need to be speaking to them and we might not be an expert in those of their areas, but you can. You can bring on people who are and who were people. They are experts in those areas. Your ideal buyers, that's your idea buyers that are having to figure out how do they lead their company? They're trying to figure out purchasing and and sourcing the different materials and recruiting like they're having to figure that out. So...

...feature your idea buyers a guest and then extract their wisdom out of them, and other ideal buyers are going to want to learn from those people. Yep, you nailed it well, James, great conversation today. Really appreciate you doing this. This has been awesome. Joe, thank you so much for having me on. Yeah, been a blast of a conversation and and superstoke to share. Awesome. Well, you're not a hard for a guy to find online, but regardless, can you tell your tell our audience how they can get in touch with you or they can learn? I mean, you got a lot of things going on here. You got how can they learn about sweetish media? Be To be growth, the PODCAST, your book, content based networking? Yeah, yeah, so you you readle off a lot of them. You can find me on Linkedin. A last name is spelled carberry, so are spelled cear be ry, so James carberry on Linkedin. The book is on Amazon or audible. If you like to listen to books, find an on audible. I think it's less than a threehour listen. And then sweetish Mediacom, you can you can find our show be to be growth there. You can also find a bunch of other shows that we produce for customers. You'll find this show actually, manufacturing executive. You can find on Sweetish Mediacom as well at a little search bar at the top of the site. So you can search for anything you're wanting to find, whether it's content based networking, the book or beat growth or manufacturing executive. And we've got I really love that little search functionality that Dan put into our website. So yeah, Sweet Fish Mediacom, find me on Linkedin, James Carberry Carbury and check out the book and would love to connect with anybody listening to this. If there's any way that I can add value, please reach out and let me know. Beautiful, if anybody listening is thinking about podcasting, there's no better people to learn from than sweet fish, so I'd recommend going to check out with James and is his crews doing so? Thank you so much. So yeah, you bet well, James, thanks once again for doing this and as for the rest of you, I hope to catch you on the next episode of the Manufacturing Executive. You've been listening to the manufacturing executive podcast. To ensure that you never miss an episode, subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player. If you'd like to learn more about industrial marketing and sales strategy, you'll find an ever expanding collection of articles, videos, guides and tools specifically for BTB manufacturers at gorilla seventy sixcom learn. Thank you so much for listening. Until next time,.

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