The Manufacturing Executive
The Manufacturing Executive

Episode · 8 months ago

Breaking the Stigma on Podcasting w/ James Carbary

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Video- and- audio-based content humanizes the people behind the information. You can see someone's face in a video or hear their voice in a podcast. They suddenly become a real person to you. Yet, manufacturing marketers are slow to embrace content that moves outside of print.

We're missing out on a lot!

In today's episode, I talk with James Carbary, founder of Sweet Fish Media, about why podcasting creates powerful marketing experiences and tools.

Here's what we discussed:

  1. How audio content can humanize your company
  2. Content-based networking, how to reverse engineer the exact relationships you want to develop
  3. Why podcasting is not all about audience growth (and what it IS all about)


To ensure that you never miss an episode of The Manufacturing Executive, subscribe on Apple Podcasts, or Spotify, or here. 

Relationships ore, the life blood ofbusiness and of life, and this framework really walks folks through.How do you reverse engineer those relationships instead of sitting backand waiting on Sarendipity, to bring these relationships to you? Welcome to the manufacturing executivepodcast, where we explore the strategies and experiences that aredriving midsize manufacturers forward here. You'll discover new insides frompassionate manufacturing leaders who have compelling stories to share abouttheir successes and struggles and youill learn from BTO B sales andmarketing experts about how to apply actionable business developmentstrategies inside your business. Let's get into the show, welcome to another episode of theManufacturing Executive Podcast, I'm Joe Sullivan your host and a cofounderof the Industrial Marketing Agency Gerilla. Seventy six, so you're apodcast listener. Maybe this is your go to podcast and if so, I'm flattered,but more likely, you've got a fewer, maybe even many podcasts that youlisten to regularly regardless. You are a podcast listener, but have youthought about whether or not you could be a podcast host or if not, you couldsomeone on your team? Do it because I cound promise you this as intimidatingas it might sound, it's far less difficult to pull off and you mightimagine, and the benefits are immense, so in this episode we're going toattack the stigma that podcasting isn't for us as a manufacturing organizationand twenty five minutes or so from now. I hope that you'll at least see thepossibilities today. My guest is the owner of what I believe is the bestpodcasting agency out. There need some social proof. Well, I hired them toproduce our own show that you're listening to right now, James Carby'spodcast, BTO b growth has been downloaded over three million times andis a top ranked podcast. According to Forbes, James is interviewed WorldClass thought leaders like Gary Vanerchuck and Simon cynic and has beena contributor for Hoffeington, post entrepreneur and business insider. WhenJames isn't writing a book or running his business, you can find him sippingcherry coke, zero eating red vines Liqoreche and trying to figure out howhe somehow convinced the most incredible woman in the planet to marryhim James. Welcome to the show I'm super pup to be here Joe. This is goingto be a really really fun conversation yeah. I'm super excited for this.Obviously a topic of passion for both of us here and you in particular, as apodcasting guy and so well F for any regular listeners. This podcast in caseyou're thinking how that voice sounds a little bit familiar. It might might bebecause James's voice is the voice of our shows. INTRO and Autro book ends,so so yeah, the bio that James gave methat I just you know, read, didn't specifically state it, but he's alsothe owner and founder of sweetfish media, which is the company thatproduces this podcast and James said: Hey I'd love to do your Interan Outtro!You know to the episode I said: Heck Yeah: Let's do it so awesome yeah! I love doing I love doingthese intras and Altros, and I get told all the time that I've got a I've got aface for radio, so I figured I might as well work on my voice for Radio tothere you go here. You Go. I think you nailed it on our shine so cool beforewe dive in here. I'd love for you to tell our listeners just you know alittle bit more about you and how you wound up where Yo are today. I've heardyour story a few times, and I think it's worth telling to our listeners, ifyou want to kind of you know give at least the cliff notes version of that.I think it would be great yeah, so I started our little marketing agencyback in two thousand and fifteen and we were basically a blog riding shop andwe got about nine months in to that business. It was the first businessthat I'd ever run that actually made money, and I wasn't making all thatmuch money, and so nine months in I was...

...trying to figure out who actually isour ideal buyer, because we were kind of weare selling this blogging service,but we're selling it to everybody. If you were big, if you were small BTBBDCdidn't matter, if you, if you were bought in on content marketing, wewould help you write your blog and get about nine months in and realizethat we had one particular custumer that was a fantastic fit, our writingteam loved working with them. I loved working with them. We were gettingphenomenal results for them and I thought man what if this could be ourniche. They were their particular type of nonprofit. There were small churcheslike kind of start up churches, they call them church plants in that world,and I was like man what, if we started working with a bunch of church plants,because we could replicate what we're doing for for this church in prettymuch every city in America and we could build a really nice business, and so,as I was thinking through that, I was like well what's the best way for me tobuild relationships with all of these church planters I didn't want to justyou know: do cold, outbound h! I don't I'm not necessarily against that. We docold outbound still, but I wanted a more effective way to build meaningfulrelationships with people that could potentially buy our service, and so, asI was thinking about it, it made me think about a podcast that I had beendoing with my friend just kind of in my spare time called inspiring awesome andwith that show anybody that I asked to be a guest on that show said yes to melike they didn't, they didn't ask how big the listenership was they didn'tthey didn't ask anything. Just the novelty of being a guest on a show wasvaluable enough for them to want to engage with me and to say yes, and so Ithought what if I applied that to this, what if I reached out to a hundredchurch planners that didn't know me from Adam to be on a show that didn'teven exist. Yet how well would that work and sure enough? It worked outreally really well most cold email responses. I think you get less than aone percent reply rate. We got an eighty percent reply rate on that emailcampaign asking people to be a guest on what we ended up, calling the showplant better about forty. Five of those people ended up doing interviews withus and we found out really quickly that church planners don't have any budgetfor content marketing, so kind of face Paumamoji in real life on that one. Butit was a huge realization for me because, coming out of that, I realizeman. Churches Can', afford content marketing services, but BTB companiescan, especially if they have a lifetime value. If the lifetime value of theircustomers, twenty ive, Ousan dollars or more our service that we could providein terms of producing this podcast and repurposing it in a lot of differentcontent could be really helpful for them. So that was the genesis you knowin January of thsand and sixteen we pivoted our agency into being a BTBPODCAST agency and we've been writing the wave of the movmentum of thepodcasting industry since then and yeah. So it's been a really fun ride, butthat's how we got started. That's a great story. I love it. James is, Ithink, you know at gorillawe've, been huge advocates for a long time oftapping into the knowledge of subject matter, experts in our case atmanufacturing companies who we work with extracting their expertise.Turning that content into content, thatill attract and engage prospectsand open the door to sales conversations and enable their salesseems to be more effective and you kno. What I've seen is that, over the lastten years, or so most most manufactors, who have actually embraced thisphilosophy, which isn't that, many frankly and in this space it's a theindustry's, a Lagang versus you, know Sass or professional services, but themanufactures who have embraced this philosophy of being a resource ratherthan just talking about themselves and their marketing. Most of them have doneit in the form of written content, blog post white papers, maybe some guest,authorship and industry journals. The thing I love about this mediumpodcasting, you really video and audiobased content- is that ithumanizes the people behind the content e Yo can see someone's face. You canhear their voice in the case of a podcast. They suddenly become a realperson to you, and so I'm curious, Tou, Coul kind of talk about the power ofthe podcasting medium from from that standpoint, yeah. So it not only doesit humanize you, but it actually meets the person that you're trying tocommunicate with where they are. When...

...you look at the consumption of a blogpost, it's much you have to be deeply engaged with that blog post, you can'tread a blog post, while you're driving- or at least I hope, you're, not readingGlod Post, while you're driving you're, probably not doing it while you'redoing dishes or mowing the yard, but when you're on the subway, when you aredriving your car when you're mowing the yard, when you're doing dishes, whenyou're just picking things up in your kids play room, you've often got yourairpods in your ears, listening to either a book or a Podcast, and what Ilove about the medium is that companies can now meet their buyers in thosemoments in those places where they would typically not be communicating totheir buyers. Now they can, through this medium, because people areconsuming podcasts in a variety of different areas and parts of theirlives. So James last year you published an absolutely phenomenal book. TitledContent Base Networking and I read it the week it came out and it was thefinal Straw for me that kind of put me over the edge and maybe say, okay. Ineed to stop mulling over this idea of launching a podcast which I've beenthinking about doing for a year and just do it haven't looked back, but canyou explain the concept of content based networking because there's somuch value there and it's been it's really the reason why I ultimatelydecided to embrace this yeah. So for me I even it's funny, Jo. I hate the wordnetworking, but I just couldn't think of a better way to describe what thetrue essence of this thing is. I mean it's relationship based it's people andwhen I think about the most significant things that have happened in my life,they've all happened as a result of me having certain relationships withpeople and so content base. Networking is really just a system of process offramework. I guess you could say to reverse engineer the exactrelationships that you want to develop. I think so often we sit back and wehope for these ideal relationships to just fall into our lap, and this iswhether you know whether you're a ceol of a manufacturing company, whetheryou're a sales rap for a manufacturing company, whether you're inadministrative role in the back office of a manufacturing O man. It doesn'treally matter in any company really outside of Manuvestran inside ofmanufacturing relationships or the lifeblood of business and of life, andthis framework really walks folks through. How do you reverse engineerthose relationships, instead of sitting back and waiting on Sarendipity, tobring these relationships to you? You don't have to do that. You canproactively, go and create these relationships, and- and so you firstgot to figure out what are your goals? What are you trying to accomplish? Whoare the people that you want to connect with, that can help you reach thosegoals and then you've just got to go and create content with those peopleand by creating content with them, you're, naturally going to build arelationship with them just simply through the collaborative process ofcreating content with them. It doesn't have to be a podcast. It could be onBlod content. It could be young video content. It could be. You know whatever,like the content is almost inconsequent. IAL T doesn't really matter to me. Whatmatters so much is that you're proactively reaching out to people totry to create and build meaningful relationships with them. Yeah, it's areally great concept, so you know manufacturing people who are listeningright now, like put you think about this. From your perspective, you know:There's there's a buying committee you're, trying to reach it that thetypes of companies that that you're serving- and there are are people thatyou know. Frankly, you pick up the phone. You start cold, calling it's itcan be pretty challenging. You know to get through to the people you're tryingto reach andto have a meaningful conversation with them, for I mean forfive minutes, let alone thirty, that you know you probably need to have areal, meaningful conversation, but when all of a sudden, you can start you knowreaching out to these people, inviting them into your content creation processby putting the spotlight on them hearing their story, you know learningwhat things matter to them. You kind of...

...said it earlier chame, but people sayyes and I found the exact thing to be true. I mean I've had had CEOS O ofmanufacturing companies on this show. I've had private equity, firm partners.I have had leaders of industry organizations that probably never wouldopen my email. Frankly hat you know, I've had them here on the show I'vebuilt relationships with them, that's led to introductions to others and andin the process of doing so, I'm I'm creating value for our organization andfor theirs. So it's really a win when you just you reposition how peopleperceive you and- and in your case Joe, you know, you're the owner of an agency,so I'm sure a lot of the folks that you're reaching out to they're gettinghit up by lots of different agencies and and but instead of them, perceivingyou as an agency owner Thas, trying to sell them something now because you'recoming to them, asking them to be a guast on the manufacturing executive.They now see you as a journalist in the space somebody WHO's, trying to lift upthe community of manufacturing, h the industry of manufacturing to helpprogress it and push it forward and you're asking them to be a part of thatwith you, and so it just completely changes the frame that people view youin and it makes it so that they actually want to engage with you asopposed to just deleting your email as soon as they see it. It ter in bucks.That's exactly right, and it's been my experience. So it's and a lot O, somany people think will, if the show, if the show doesn't have many listenerslike, why would people want to talk to me, is crazy, but, like the show that Ireference in the story or in the story that I mentioned earlier, that showdidn't even exist. Yet we didn't even have like cover art, the show wasn'teven in Apple, podcast or Itunes, at the time and and people still said Yesto being on this show. So it was you know it's wild, but that's humanpsychology for you yeah well, and that's actually really good lead intothe next question. I was going to ask you, which is another argument againstwell, you know th what, if there's only a hundred listeners, o the shower oreven less well, one thing I love about the podcasting medium is how extendablethe content is, and I think you wrote an article about this James, somethinglike about a content waterfall, that it was a concept that really resonatedwith me and we've embraced it with our with our own podcast. We help ourclients do this with the webinars. They run and written contect that theycreate, but I think the podcast is a perfect medium for creating thisamazing asset that can then be broken down into other things and used in manyplaces. Can you talk about that? A little bit yeah, so another powerful,powerful element of a podgast? Is that you, especially when you recorded onvideo, like what we're doing right now? You can slice and dice that contentinto so many different things like you just mentioned, and so this thirtyminute conversation that we're having on Zoom right now. We can probably turnthis into seven or eight different micro videos. You know one to twominute clipse of either you or I talking riffing on a particular topic.We can turn that into graphics that we could use on twitter on Linkdon orinstagram. We can there's just so many different things you can do with thatright. I mean it's audiograms or micro, videos or visual assets or blog postsin an in addition to the like. All of that, like the content that comes offof this thing, the other thing is just you're, actually getting rich, reallyrich customer insights from the people that you're talking to, like yourunderstanding, how their brain thinks about things. What they're challengedby what they're excited by and that kind of stuff just doesn't happen in alot of other ways. I mean for the folks listening to this, maybe you're notleading a marketing team, but I would venture to say that the person that isleaving your marketing team, if they're, like the the marketing teams, that Iwork with they're, pretty isolated from customers when you ask them like howoften do you actually talk to customer sales? Talk cusomers a lot, butmarketing doesn't tend to actually talk...

...to customers that much. This mediumallows you to do that to so. In addition to just the wealth of contentthat you're creating from a simple thirty minute, interview, variety ofdifferent formats, different links, youre simultaneously giving yourmarketing team really really rich insights from directly from the mouthsof people that buy your product. That's that's a really great point, so I meanyou think about it. Your podcast is marketing. Your podcast is customerresearch, your cus, your podcast is relationship building and a nurturingof prospes yeah mand, all this stuff that sit's just so many benefits comefrom one medium, so e, so James at guerrilla we've specialized inmarketing for manufacturers for the better part of the last decade- and onething that's become very clear to me- is that BTO be manufacturing.Organizations are much more sales driven than they are marketing driven.That's that's. I feel very comfortable stating that, as fact hat this point, what I've observed is that marketingtechnology from software to utilizing new mediums like video and podcast,usually comes with t e, pretty slow adoption curve. So I'm just wonderingwhat can you tell listeners o help offset some of that intimidation that Iknow a lot of them feel around the idea of launching a podcast, and I think ifI would encourage them to just start, and I think when you start, when youjust get started you can you can hire a firm like ours and you can do you cando things like that, and this is going to sound like I'm shooting our ownbusiness in the foot. But I think if you just come out of the gate and startthere are free tools you can use like anchor. That is the host for your show.You can literally record the episodes right there on your phone and then getit uploaded apple, podgast, spotify, all the different players. From thatone single APP, I think you can get like a fifty or sixty dollar Mike onAmazon. There's tons that you can google a list of Mikes that you can buy,but this stuff doesn't need to be super complex, like you need a place to hostthe audiofile, which again is what anchor can do. We use sounder DOTFM andthat's what we advocate for all of our clients to use. I think, there's alittle bit of a cost to it, but anchoris totally free, so just try, Iwould say, even even before you launchd the show think about three to fivepeople that you would want to do business with and just ask them like:Hey, I'm thinking about starting a show about x topic. Would you be up forbeing one of my first guests and just just get a get a feel for whetherpeople would want to collaborate with you on content, and I think you'll seehow easy it actually is you can you can get into the weeds and figure out thatOh man, using riverside instead of zoom for our video capture, you know gets us,you know higher quality, video or you know all of the like the nuances andthe details, you can figure that stuff up out later just go just start startreaping the benefits from it start understanding like Oh man, I'm reallygetting some really meedy insights from our buyers or I'm able to make Introsfor our sales team that I never would have been able to before, and when youstart to realize that you'll figure out that the details of it, the things thatyou ere tripping yourself up for in your head, really aren't that big of adeal and the big scheme of things yeah that that's allall really good stuff. Imean you can almost just forget about the technology, an the short term rightand just just like we're just doing a zoom right now. This is as soomingeverybody wis listening this given do what twendy twenty was is probably usedto doing this, so you hit record and that's it and Yep then, and then you'llo, once you realize you've got three or five really good recordings under yourbelt you're going to be motivated to figure out the simple technology things,because you've got this great content that you're going to want to get outthere so yep, it's really less. I mean I'm speaking as somebody who was in thein that position. You know is recently is seven eight months ago, where itsounded super intimidating to me. I just went with it and I'm realizing. Imean this. Is this very natural I' just...

...having natual conversations with peopleand the technology is not mearly as bad as I would have guessed S, Yep you're,exactly right, and I think man for the folks that are listening to this I meanthat you're, a senior level leader at a manufacturing company. I just t Icannot overstate the importance of the insights that you are going to gain byactually having conversations with your customers, especially because of twothousand and twenty. I don't know in the manufacturing industry. I wouldimagine. Events aren't happening for a while, still and so in an environmentwhere you used to be able to meet up with folks in person what a fantasticshift for you to say: Hey, we can't go to conferences, but I don't want to. Idon't want to slow down the relationships that I'm building as asenior executive in this company, and so let's do it virtually and- and thismedium is so perfect for that it is really well said James. Is thereanything that we did not touch on during this conversation that you'dlike to add before we wrap it up? I think- and this is this is a little bitof maybe one- maybe two O one. I don't know I straddle between like whetherthis is podcasting one o one o two ond one. I think it's actually one on one.It's that important that when you're thinking about your show, this is amistake that I see so many companies making they and this this it comes fromwhat you alluded to earlier Joe, which is taking a being much more heavy onthe sales approach as opposed to marketing. So many companies want to brand or namethe show around themselves or around their own expertise when in reality, ifyou want to be able to use the show to meet people that could you couldpotentially do business with you need to make the show about them. So ourshow, for example, our podcast is called Beto, be growth. We did not nameit. The BTOB podcasting show because none of our ideal buyers, VPS ofmarketing at BTB, Sass companies with fifty bless employees, would want to bea guest on that show because they don't know anything about BTOB podcasting,that's why they hire sweetfish to do it for them, because they don't know thatmuch about bb podcasting. So the same is true of you. It your ideal buyers,don't know the INS and outs of what you do. That's why they're your customer?That's that's why they pay you that stuff, so instead you need to make itabout them. You've done a brilliant job. With this, with your show, Joe, themanufacturing executive. Your show is not about marketing because a lot ofyour clients they're coming to you, because they need help with marketing.So it's, but but it's a common mistake that so many companies make- and Iwould I would challenge everybody listening to this t just be verythoughtful about how how do we want to name and brand our show? How can wemake it about our ideal customer instead of making it about US yeahgreat great ad there and I took frankly, I took your advice from from your firmas we were youere helping US launch our show, and I was going to name it,something more industrial marketing, related and teach about industrialmarketing, which some of the content falls into that bucket, but but reallywhat you know the direction you guys pushed me in was call it somethingabout nave it after the person you're tying to reach. Well, that's the name,the manufacturing executive right and yea and e're hitting hitting on thingsthat manufacturing executives care about from a variety of perspectives,marketings one of those things, but it's also leadership yeyersil. It couldbe another element of of it like there there's a lot of different there's, alot of different elements to being a leader to manufacturing company,absolutely outside of marketing, and I think, we're afraid to speak to thosedifferent areas. But the reality is our buyers care about those things yeah,and so, if our buyers care about them, we need to be speaking to them and wemight not be an expert in those other areas. But you can you can bring onpeople who are and who are people. Thet are experts in those areas, your idealbuyers that' your idea, buyers theyre having to figure out how do they leadtheir company they're, trying to figure out purchasing and sourcing hedifferent materials and recruiting like...

...here having to figure that out sofeature your idea, byers, a guest and then extract their wisdom out of themand other ideal buyers are going to want to learn from those people yep,you nailed it well. James Great Conversation today really appreciateyou doing this. This has been awesome Joe. Thank you. So much for having meon yeah, been a blast of a conversation and and Super stok to share awesomewellyou're, not a hard Fr guy to find online. But regardless can you tellyour tell our audience how they can get in touch with you or they can learnMaye. You hat a lot of things going on here. You got. How can they learn aboutsweet fish? Me BTB growth, the PODCAST Yor Byour Book Content Base NetworkingYeah Yeah, so you ratle off a lot of them. You can find me on linkon. A lastname is spelled carburry, so our speld car Bary, so James Carburry on Linkedin.The book is on Amazon or audible. If you like to listen to books, find it onaudible, I think it's less than a three hour, listen and then sweetfishMediacom you can. You can find our show be to be growth there. You can alsofind a bunch of other shows that we produce for customers. You find thisshow actually manufacturing executive. You can find on sweetfish Mediacom aswell at a little search bar at the top of the site, so you can search foranything you're wanting to find whether it's content, a's networking the bookor bby growth or manufacturing, executive and we've got. I really lovethat little search functionality that Dan put in or website so yeah swe fishMediacom, find me on Linkon James Carberry, CA, rbary and check out thebook and would love to connect with anybody. Listening to this, if there'sany way that I can add value, please reach out, and let me know beautiful ifanybody listening is thinking about podcasting, there's, no better peopleto learn from than sweetfish. So I'd recommend going to check out with Jamesand is his crews doing so. Thank you so much so yeah. You bet well James thanksonce again for doing this and as for the rest of you, I hope to catch you onthe next episode of the Manufacturing Executive. You've been listening to themanufacturing executive podcast to ensure that you never missed an episodesubscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player. If you'd like to learnmore about industrial marketing and sale strategy, you'll find an everexpanding collection of articles, videos guides and tools, specificallyfor B, to B manufacturers at Grilla, seventy sixcom, AH LARN. Thank you somuch for listening until next time.

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