The Manufacturing Executive
The Manufacturing Executive

Episode · 1 year ago

Content Distribution: Getting Your Ass(ets) in Front of People Who Care w/ Matt Sciannella

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

We'd all love to create content and then sit back and wait for the phones to start ringing. But that doesn't work.

You have to be proactive. Learn how and where your prospects and customers go to consume content online and deliver it to them in those channels.

The only content that works is the content that's actually consumed.

On this episode of the podcast, I invited Matt Sciannella, Senior Strategist at Gorilla76, to talk about content distribution.

Matt and I discussed:

  1. The reasons we need to be talking about content distribution
  2. Why the mindset around the downloadable ebook is starting to change
  3. When you should venture onto a channel other than email, Facebook, LinkedIn, and YouTube

To ensure that you never miss an episode of The Manufacturing Show, subscribe on Apple Podcasts, or Spotify, or here.

I guarantee you, if you listento this, then you do it, you're probably ahead of like ninety percentof your competitors, who are not, who are still doing trade shows,who are still looking at print ads, who are still being in their headagainst the wall wondering why they can only reach one percent of their audience doingorganic facebook posts. Welcome to the manufacturing executive podcast, where we explore thestrategies and experiences that are driving midsize manufacturers forward. Here you'll discover new insightsfrom passionate manufacturing leaders who have compelling stories to share about their successes and struggles, and you'll learn from B tob sales and marketing experts about how to applyactionable business development strategies inside your business. Let's get into the show. Welcometo another episode of the Manufacturing Executive podcast. This show is being brought to youby our sponsor, cadinis part solutions. I'm Joe Sullivan, your host anda CO founder of the Industrial Marketing Agency grilla seventy six so when welaunched this podcast earlier this year, I built a list of potential guests,but I thought could contribute something of value, and on that list was a manufacturingguy who had also just co launched a podcast, the industrial marketer.What I didn't know then was that by the time his episode came up,this guy would be working alongside me at gorilla. But the stars happened toa line late this summer and Matt Channella, formerly of Software Startup gravy and weldingmanufacturer Abocor Benzel, was on the job hunt right when we happen tobe hiring a senior strategist at gorilla. And so here we are. Solet me take a moment to introduce today's guest, Matt Schanella, of ourown gorilla seventy six. Matt has been working in marketing with the trades forabout nine years. He started his career doing technical and proposal writing for eightcompanies before transitioning to design build construction. There he was introduced to marketing andspecifically inbound marketing and marketing sales alignment. In Two thousand and sixteen, Mattmoved to welding equipment maker Abocor Benzel, where he began as marketing manager andmoved up to marketing director for the United States and Canada. There he grewthe marketing department from a print ad at trade show focused approach to inbound contentand demand generation, creating over two point five million in marketing sourced pipeline andexpanding the inbound marketing program internationally two countries like Brazil, Germany, Mexico andthe UK. MATT MOVED TO START UP Company gravy to be their content directorfor a brief spell before returning to the industrial space as senior strategist here atgorilla seventy six. Matt, welcome to the show. So I just needto ask you why did it take so many episodes you to bring me onthe show? If, if you have me, listen to me on anyway, because we because we just wanted to make you wait. I know,clearly, I'm I'm so happy to be on this show and also just happyto complete the industrial marketer podcast appearance on the manufacturing executive. Since MJ wasyour first guest, I'm hoping I won't be your last, but it wouldbe kind of cool if we book ended being guests in your podcast. Yeah, I have, yeah, absolutely, but now you're sorry, you're notthe last. I've already got about five more lined up. So good try. Well, well, Matt, we have. We've talked quite a biton the show, you know, through the first twenty episodes or so bythe time this one goes live, about content creation, from video to writtento audio. We've talked about thought leadership and the idea of extracting knowledge fromsubject matter experts within a given organization. But we haven't really talked about yetis content distribution. So, and I know this is a passion of yours, it's one of the reasons we brought you on at Gorilla because you've doneit before, you're passionate about it, you know you've seen what works andhad your successes and failure. So can you start at a high level byjust defining what exactly we talking about with...

...content distribution? Yeah, so,I mean on a really high level, content distribution is simply how am Igoing to get the assets that I make in front of the audience who caresabout it? And so, in a high level that's kind of where contentdistribution kind of falls into place. It's and you really think about that almostbefore you make the content, because a large part of like where you woulddistribute is like, okay, what kind of piece of content in going tomake? You know if I'm making a blog post, I'm probably going tobe relying on SEO, relying on email, using paid media on facebook because it'srice right. So I could go distributed on that organic social media.Hopefully subject matter expert will do it. Maybe even you can have your subjectmatter expert posted on their Linkedin as a pulse article as well. I've seencompanies do that with success. It's good way to get just additional exposure ifthere's no penalty for it. So distribution really just comes down to like,what a acid am I making and then how am I getting in front ofmy audience at a really in the most effective way possible to guarantee that they'llactually consume it? Yeah, that's a good overview. You know, Ithink there's like a lot of a lot of Bebe marketing strategies have been veryinbound heavy over the last ten years or so and I'm a huge advocate ofinbound. I'm not saying I'm not, but you can't sit back and justwait for people to show up at your doorstop, you know, unless you'rejust a massive organization with a ton of authority in the real world and inthe online space. You've got to think beyond just publishing stuff and then waitingfor people to arrive and consume it. And I think distribution is about lookingat different channels, from you know, in bound to paid media to outbound, and figuring out what's how are we going to get all of these insightsin front of as much of our total addressable market and with a regular cadence? Right, yeah, right. I mean, what you want is amarketer when you're doing inbound is you want people to come inbound to ask fora quote request or requested demo or RFI like that. That sales intent conversion. But in terms of content, I mean I would say you going tobe mixing an inbounded outbound model with that. I mean you need to get contentout in front of people. It's way too competitive right now with allthe other things that you have to compete with, not just within your industrybut externally as well. I mean you compete with CNN and ESPN, frankly. I mean this is what people spend their time on the Internet doing,so you better make sure that you're out there finding them where they're spending theirtime on those awareness channels like facebook and Linkedin, in Youtube and on thoseintent channels as well, like Google. So you have to have the rightmix of content and distribution in order to effectively create your demand generation engine.As at an industrial company, I mean the same as it would be anassass company. A BB marketing tactic that started gaining a lot of popularity,say eight or ten years ago, is this idea of a downloadable ebook.Fill out this form, get this white paper or Ebook we made, weget your contact information. Well, over the last year or two I've startedto see a big mindset shift from a lot of some of who I thinkare the smartest marketing people out there about this strategy. You know, canyou talk a little bit about why the mindset around the downloadable ebook and exchangefor contact information is starting to change? I think it does. A couplethings that go into that. I think one is is the Ebook is whenthat's time it was made. It was really the only thing out there foryou to make. Right, let's make this big Ebook, let's make itthirty to sixty pages, let's put a bunch of content in there and let'shave people give us their email and information exchange and exchange for it, andit was really almost the only other than the blog, like the only contentthing out there. Like webinars weren't really a thing then, youtube videos weren'treally a thing. Then all the other kind of micro content stuff which we'llget into, wasn't really a thing then. So at the time the e bookwas a really good play and it...

...was so new and novel to mostcontent consumers that it was like Yas this is, this is awesome. Imean this business is just giving away their information and their expertise for my email. Well, you know, fast forward now five years and everybody is doingthat and everyone's just inundated with really crappy email follow ups off of ebook downloads. And now people were like, you know what, the idea of theebook isn't very attractive to me as a content piece anymore because I know whatthe play is after that. It's I got a sales guy who's going totry to ask me if they can book fifteen minutes on my calendar and I'mgoing to download Ebook, then I'm probably not even going to read like justthink of the effort now to read an Ebook I want. I mean theaudience who's listening this is ask yourself, honestly, when's the last time youdownloaded in ebook and read the entire thing. My guess is it would be along time ago. I I mean for me it was like, Ican't remember the last time I downloaded in Ebook, except when I download acompetitor's Ebook at my last company to skim through a kind of content they weremaking. But for my own consumption, for my own education, for myjob, that haven't done that and like two or three years, and Iwould argue most people's content consumptions behaviors are the same. They want to readit pretty quickly, they want it packaged in a way that they can understandit, they want it kind of on their time and they also want todo it without fearing that they're going to be hit up with like a reallybad sales kidens afterwards. And so I learned that less that at Benzel kindof in my last year and a half. There were like the ebook download tothe mql to my sales guy following up was just it was not producinga sales opportunity for me and people weren't reading the Ebook, and so thatmade me think, well, this really isn't the way people are consuming contentanymore, and I mean that was happening for you even almost realized it.It took, you know, people that we follow on Linkedin, like ChrisWalker, to sort of just crystallize that for me. But if I lookback into my data, I'm like, yeah, it's exactly what's happening.So that's why I look at the Ebook now and I'm thinking, well,the better thing to do with your ebook today, and this is what allthe great content creators do, repackage it into another form of content and getit back out into into your audience. Like just because it's sitting there collectingdust doesn't mean it doesn't have a value. It simply just needs to be repurposedinto something that your audience would find valuable. Yeah, great advice there. You know, for years and years, well before the download my ebook andexchange for your contact information play book was ever a thing, manufacturers hadleaned heavily into print ads and trade shows, and certainly it's still still there today. But in many ways this was awareness marketing right. It was beingin front of as many of of the right people as we could, andwere just less ways to do it back then and it tended to be lessdigital in nature. And then you know, the downloadable Ebookraz of the last decadeor so shifted the focus from awareness marketing into lead Gen focus marketing orperformance marketing. But it's companies are realizing how low quality a lot of theseebook leads actually are. Like you just hit on, I'm sort of seeingthis shift going back in the direction of awareness marketing again, but now it'ssort of a different kind of awareness marketing that the best marketers are seeking atthis point, instead of print ads that's say, you know, we're AcmeCorporation and here's all the amazing stuff we sell. We're talking about distributing genuinelyhelpful resources, relatable success stories and so on in front of the people you'retrying to reach. So, Matt what I'd love to hear you talk aboutis what mixture of content do you see working well in this sort of newbrand of awareness marketing? I mean, the real simple answer to that isthe best content that's working is the content your audience cares about, so Iwould say. And in that regard, you actually have to go out anddo, some of you know, the uncomfortable marketing work that we don't liketo do. Like you know, we just want to sit in the backgroundand be like the silent genius. But you gotta you actually got to goout and talk to your customers and visit them and kind of study how theydo stuff. Like, you know,...

...if I'm watching, you know,a production engineer on a shop floor spending his free time scrolling through Facebook,I'm thinking, well, kind of, that's kind of where I want tomake sure I have my content. So maybe I'm thinking not a Webinar,but maybe I'm thinking about a blog article that's written like a newspaper article,because, you know, that's kind of how how people click on stuff onon avenues like facebook and or on. thinking of a video that's caption like. You got to always think about, you know, where the production howit's allowed all that other there's noise and there's just things going around there.They're not really listening. They if you're your plugs on half the time aswell. So, like I mean thinking about have some empathy for your customerand where they're at, and that's kind of where you're going to figure outthe best content medium. So, to get back to your original question,like you know, I we I've been a big fan for a long timeof Webinars I had. I never quite sort of got the formula for it, though I was always super intrigued by it, even like three, fouryears ago, when like they really started to gain traction in some spaces andI was like man, this seems like it could work really, really wellif I can only figure out a how to narrate it to my leadership team, like this is why webinars are valuable, and then also like how could Iextend the value of it? And so I've always been a big advocateof webinars and I kindly got this formula like about about a year ago,where it's just like, of course, the Webinar is just one piece ofmany that you're going to make within your you know, your content strategy.But I tend to think of content now in pillars or it's like what isthe big long form piece of content that I can make that I can thenchop up? I'm going to do this hand motion here, chop up andtwo smaller pieces of content and then distribute it out on those channels. Andso the people, the way people right now consume content. They've been it'sthe netflixing of your of your consumer right they when they have a problem theywant to find, they'll find your company if you're out there getting in frontof them. And then when they have a problem, they're interested in you. They're going to want to actually consume several pieces of your content in arow. It's the same thing as if you go find a show on Netflixand that first episode gets you and all of a sudden you find yourself onepisode eight by tomorrow. So I mean think of your marketing content in thatsort of frame as well, like, okay, you know I'm going todo this Webinar. Well, you're not going to just do a Webino.You're actually going to try to build a whole episodic content program around your Webinar, because you ideally want your consumer to go find your first Webinar and thencheck out your second and then check out your third, or maybe they'll,you know, check out the little micropiece of the content you'll make from thatsecond or third. But ideally you want them to consume several pieces of yourcontent over a short period of time and then you go back out to themon that awareness channel and then eventually you're optimizing for again the RFQ or thedemo requests. So they'll go when they have a problem, when they needan electro mechanical assembly, they're going to go, oh, Oh, Iremember that company who's been I remember the cable guys who are doing that episodicvideo series. Let me go check them out and I'll go request the quote, and then you'll be the first thing that comes in their mind when they'reready. And that's basically how you do content at a high level today.In my opinion. You you know you you get people in your content streamand so you respect the fact that they're buying on their time on and noton yours, and so that consistency builds, no like trust, and then theycome back to you when they are ready and then you find yourself rightto front of the queue and they're actually ready to make them purchase. Yeah, great breakdown. Love that. Let's talk about channels for a second herefor content distribution. So there's a there's a time and place for email,there's a time and place for Linkedin, for Facebook, for Youtube. Canyou shed some light on what situations makes sense for utilizing any of these orother given channels? Yeah, so all these channels have will at some pointin time, have a place in your distribution mix. But I think thething you got to look at the most,...

...more than anything. This is anotherawkward things from marketers in the industrial space. The price of your product. The price of your product actually will have an enormous impact on which channelsare right for you, because you got to think about this. Is whatkind of the analysis in the metrics go into it. But if you're sellinga five thousand dollar product, you probably shouldn't be distributing content paid at leaston Linkedin, because it's too expensive and you're going to lose money to acquireare a customer. Not Worth it. Now, if now facebook, ifyou could target properly, much better, you'll pay, you know, aquarter of the price, if not less, to find that exact same audience.If you can target properly, youtube saying deal extremely cost effective. Soto me the best channels are the ones that are cost effective for you,where most of your audience lives and where you can get at them repeatedly withthe same kind of content over and over and over again. So that's reallymy best device is to figure out which products you have or solutions you havethat have the most upside for you as a business and as a marker,you feel you can make content around the best and promote. Figure out howmuch that cost the average customer for you over a year and then every succeedingyear, because I wanted up space. He was listening to this. Youprobably are relying on the residual revenue model of where items are consumables or replacementparts or like service maintenance or something like that. So figure out, overlike five to six years, like what's the lifetime value of this customer andthen let that kind of stuff influence what's the best channel for me to pushcontent out on, and at least in the paid medium manner, because ifyou do that of front work it, it'll reveal itself. I'm going toask you one follow up there. So I think, I think a lotof companies, I've seen this happen in my own conversations. They you sayfacebook and BETB industrial and they think, like you know, is that kindof like, you know, for Good B Toc and and for MOMS toshare pictures of their kids are or whatever. But you talk about the power offacebook specifically, just because I think a lot of manufacturers wouldn't necessarily gothere first or they think of that as a good channel for them. Yeah, I would. I mean to anyone who doesn't think their customers are onfacebook. Ask Yourself, are you on facebook? Are Your brothers or sisterson facebook? Are Your kids on facebook if you're of a certain age,and the chances are probably yes, and they probably still spend more time onfacebook than any other social media channel. Now, all of the ethical problemsof facebook is a totally fair debate when you can have that on your owntime. But to me, like the the idea that your customers are noton facebook is ludicrous, because they are and you can if in depending onthe industry you're and you can just target by the job title. So ifyou want to go find a manufacturing engineer on facebook, guess what you cantarget in by that job title. If you want to find a welder onfacebook, guess what you could target them a job title. If you wantto find a CNC machine, it's on facebook. Guess what you can targetabout job title and you can do all of the really cool targeting things withit. Now all those job titles to me sound like industrial job titles thatmost people listening to this podcast will want to get in front of, dependingon what you sell. So and also these people are on here there andengaged. And if you want proof of that, go find some of thosefacebook groups that are out there around those kinds of categories and go see howmany people are are posting and engaging all those on those groups, because you'llbe, I'm not pleasantly surprised, but you will be shocked and how manypeople are on there doing that and how many are participating and active on there. And fristically, they're just they're just there to be found. I meanyou just need a good content offer, a good content strategy, and youcan. You can get them really for a lot cheaper than you would,a lot cheaper actually, than you would to try to do a like aprint ad on your on your in Your Trade Organization magazine. I mean,this is an exponentially larger audience that you...

...can get for weight cheaper for impression, and you can measure it in a way that's important to you. Soyeah, I mean, I I don't know why facebook is a debate asan advertising platform for for industrial for industrial marketers and industrial companies, but Imean you're just just make me look a lot better for for thing in that. Well, you know, it's just comes back to that simple question.Where's your customer? Where do they consume content? How do they consume content? You just need to understand them and how they how they, you know, consume information? Right, oh, yeah, absolutely. And like theother thing is like these the algorithms at these these social media platforms are usingthere's so much smarter than me and you and presidents and CFOs and CEOS ofcompanies like like you can. It's Fermographic, it's demographic, it's job title,it's age, it's geographical, like you can get so focused if youwant to, and it's really not that difficult to use. I think.Think one things that happens with a lot of ad platforms, for a lotof marketers is they over complicate it, like they're trying and they try todo the wrong things on these platforms, which is we get. I'm like, I'm meanly pulled us back to content distribution because I feel like I gotoff topic here. So, like, I think a lot of people wantto go on facebook and go send out there, you know, nice newlike their Swiss texty and tea machine or whatever it is they're selling, andgo hey book a demo with us now, without warming that audience stuff with anythingelse beforehand, and it's like this goes back to my point about awarenessverse intent. So like facebook and linkedin our awareness channels and Google is anintent channel. So awareness literally means you need to disrupt them in their newsfeed with content that is compelling and educational and valuable and, you know,entertaining, and get an interrupt literally their their scroll pattern and get them toengage with that. Whereas on Google, these people know what they're looking forbecause they're typing into the search engine, like I am looking for a UCNCmachine and you want to make sure that you're popping up on that with Googleads or, if your seo is good enough, your own organic search result. So when I'm thinking of facebook and Linkedin, I'm not thinking of thatsort of conversion like people are going on linked in or facebook looking for youSEEINGC machines. They're going to look at what other people are posting for content, and so me as a marketer, I want to make sure that Iam when I'm distributing content, I'm dishivingy content that's very similar to what myaudience is looking for. I just need to package it up again. Thisgoes back to packaging, making it, making it interesting and compelling enough thatthey'll clip through and read it and consume it. So that's sort of how, in my opinion, content distribution works in a very simple, high level. I just think a lot of people don't have the discipline to allow thatto play out because it takes time. We're going to take a really quickbreak here to help pay the bills. So two thousand and twenty has beena weird year. Industries are facing new challenges as we navigate life without tradeshows, events and in person meetings. Many businesses are bolstering their online toolsto offer a better experience. Will also making up for some of those missingtrade show leads, and that's where a cademist part solutions comes in. Theyhelp you create a dynamic, sharable cad catalog that you put on your website. Designers can preview your products from any angle and download and the format thatthey prefer. By improving the online experience, engineers and architects get the data theyneed for their design and you get a fresh lead in your marketing pipeline. Who Needs Trade shows anyway? To learn more visit part solutionscom leads.Yeah, you brought up a really important point here, I think, andand this is where you know, we as marketers, we've got to shiftour mindset, especially when the thing you sell is a big, complex,long sales cycle, you know, custom piece of machinery or solution. Youknow, just as in part you'd meet somebody in person, you're not goingto sell them something on the spot,...

...right. That's not how it works. And this is such an opportunity for you to to be in front ofpeople on a consistent basis, to deliver things that are purely interesting to them, that are, you know, going to peak their interest, that aregoing to demonstrate thought leadership for you, they're going to be helpful to themand answer questions they have and help solve problems, and the social chanters aresuch a great way to do that, for people to consume little nuggets ofinformation over time and do you, for you to start sort of occupying aplace in their mind as a leader and an authority on these subjects that areyour specialty. And you can't go in with the mindset that I'm trying toget demo's booked like, yeah, maybe, depends on what you sell, ofcourse, but when, when you're a manufacture selling a complex solution.That's not the mindset here that we're trying to get in front of people.We're trying to build awareness, build trust, earn attention and and then when yourtop of mind, when people are at the right place in their buyersjourney, which you can't control, they control, you're the first one theythink of right, right, and looked. I mean just thinking about your ownsales cycle as a company. If it takes you twelve months to sellyour product because it's a consultative sales process, your marketing, content distribution strategy isnot going to accelerate that to six months. It's just simply not.It's simply going to buy more people to get in that kind of twelvemonth salescycle and then it maybe, over time, it will accelerate it by, youknow, a couple months. You know, maybe you'll go from twelvemonths to ten months or twelve or like twelve and nine. But, like, it's not. It's not. It's not panacea right, like, it'snot. It's not going to solve all of your marketing problems for you andit's not going to magically, you know, accelerate your sale cycle by a hundredpercent. That's just that's is not how it works. And to thepoint of the demo request, that I do think it's okay to ask tolike go like, request to demo here, request the quote, but you can'tdo that with your first advert like pay media effort right, like youhave to. You have to breed no, like trust with that same audience overand over and over and over again before you ask for the quote.Or you can build some retargeting off of specific pages. So, like ifthey go to your RFQ page or they go to your contact this page andyou're like Um, okay, that's a high level, that's that's a that'ssome where I want to retarget and just try to get them into you know, to give me that Rfq or give me that demo request. Yeah,I mean that's that's that makes sense. But, like, overall, especiallywhen you're doing cold targeting. No, I mean cold targeting is pattern disruption, great content, get in front of them, build no like trust.Package your content to be consumed, which is another point I haven't made yet, because when you pack your content to be consumed on social you're not publishinga threezero word blog posts for them to read. You actually want to writesomething that's like, you know, six hundred, nine hundred words and soyou can guarantee they'll actually read it, because there's no point in distributing outyour blog post to your cold targeted audience on facebook if they're gonna check itout and if they're going to click through and then bounce out because they're like, this is way too much for me to read that. Can you citean example or two of manufacturing organizations, whether there's you know, somebody you'vebeen a part of helping or just what you've observed from the outside, butyou know a company that has put this type of content distribution strategy into playand successfully, and sort of explain how you've seen them make it happen?The best example is your is one of your past guest Mj, and whatshe's done a firetrace. I mean firetrace kills it. I mean she hastech companies asking her for advice, and for good reason, because she knowswhat she's doing. And so firetraces probably the example I would lean to themost. So they have it all figured out because they sell one product therethey segment very well, like they got their CNC machine division and then theyhad their wind turbine kind of division, and so they kind of know likeokay, what they know how to segment...

...and they know what information matters tothem the boat. So they're targeting is very locked tight. They also knowCNC machinist. They PAYBACKTORI. It isn't there on Linkedin. So we're justgoing to go on facebook and go find CNC machinists and go give you distributecontent to them. Or as their wind turbine sector, they are on Linkedinand the cost it's more like it's like a half million for them or whatever. So really only Dan because that actually makes sense for me. So know, firetrace to me's the best example. They do such a great job mixinglike blog content with webinars as well as they have great case studies and testimonialsfrom customers that they distribute to and they just they just run a really tight, it's very simple to a really tight and simple marketing operation with their withtheir content. So again it cook to me. It goes down to likedo not over complicate how you do content and that that's and that's how youend up doing something, doing something really mediocre like firetrace is like Webinars,blogs, case studies and testimonials, and it's like that's all we're going todo and we're going to distribute over and over and over again on Youtube andon Linkedin and on facebook, and they got a whole machine going because,I mean again, they recognize how much their product is and they recognize howmuch it costs to distribute it on these paid media platforms and they've made ita very cost effective operation for them. So takes a little bit of strategy, takes a little bit of math and then it takes making good content andthen it takes going to find your audience where they live and getting content outto him. So I would highly recommend checking out firetrace and kind of whatthey do. I wouldn't Mja gets hit up by everybody, but if youwant to try that to Mj, go for but I mean they're there,to me, the best example out there. If you're a midsize industrial company tryingto figure out how to do this, well, like they're their masters forall at it. There you go, everybody, go check out firetrace andwhat Mj Peters is doing. If you if you're active on Linkedin.MJ publishes a lot of great content and advice there herself. So good's goodsuggestion, Matt. How do you figure out how much to invest in apaid media budget for content distribution? That's a good question. I would alwaysstart small just to see what your audience looks like. So you should getinto like get into habit of like taking a thousand bucks to kind of testthere or five hundred bucks. That's what you have. I can tell youa Benzel, when I left, we were we were putting about nine granda month and to into paid media, and so I think that's a numberof that every miss. If you're if you're doing thirty five million dollars ayear as a as a BDB industrial company, and you're given your marketing team,like, you know, one to two, one, one of twopresent a revenue for it. Know, for budget, you should be strivingto spend, in my opinion, nine grand a month for paid media forFacebook, Linkedin, Youtube and finding the right mix. So, depending onthe channel, would depend on how much I would invest, but usually athousand is a pretty good test balloon for a channel to see if it works. But you should know honestly pretty quickly if it's working or not people anddon't worry about things like our people commenting on it or people liking it.Like that's really not what you should be measuring for your paid media. Ifit's videos, you should be measuring how many people were watching. You know, fifty percent of it is probably what I would I would put as mywitness how much my paying for that view and then have to ask myself,is it worth me paying three cents for or my audience, which I believeit is well targeted to view, to view fifty percent of my three minutevideo and you have to make that decision for yourself and say, okay,is that worth the investment? For me I would usually say yes, butsome other people would think maybe not. But that's kind of how I wouldthink about measuring content and then, you know, using my budget on onchannels like facebook. The other thing is, like you know if you're doing ablog or a case study, that it's on your website. Don't doPDS. I've seen companies do that. Do not try to like link thethe PDF. You can't measure that and you're analytics are in your hub spot. So if you were to do a...

...blog post and let's say say ahundred eight und your words should take someone about two minutes to read that,maybe three. So do that paid on paid on facebook, and then goto your analyps and say, okay, is it worth be paying a dollartwenty five to ensure that you know x amount of people spend two minutes andthirty seconds reading my blog post? And then I have to make that decisionas a marketing leader. You know, is it? Is that worth itto me and for me, and most of the time it would be yes. And then you're simply connecting dots. At that point it's like, okay, do we have an increase in direct traffic submissions for Urfq's of Demo request? Do we have an increase in Google organic submissions for Demo and R Qrequests? And you just simply have to connect the dots of your activity withthe result that you're optimizing for. And so that it, to me,is how you do it, because attribution is messy and dirty and your salesdirector and your president and your CFO, they're going to want to know howis it? How's attribution working? And I'm not saying I don't believe anattribution, but I think attribution is it's messy and I think it optimizes forthe wrong stuff. Honestly, like if you saw all those things, ifyou saw an uptick in Google organic search for an R Q, but youreally weren't posting a lot of Seo optimize blog posts because you were distributing thatcontent on facebook, you just look then and say we need to invest morein Seo, instead of saying I actually need to put more into facebook adds. So I mean just have you know, take a step back, look atyour activity versus your result and then decide like, is this working forme or not, and the numbers will come out. It may mean you'llhave to do a little bit of storytelling your leadership team, but that's honestlywhat it takes to get to get budget and and and to use the channelsthat that are that are working for you. Because if you're sitting there just tryingto put facebook adds to demo request, you never got to get any resultsand they're going to say facebook ads don't work. You never going toget a chance to do it the right way. Right answer, mad isthere anything else you want to add? To this conversation that we haven't touchedon. Yeah, I would say get started now if you're if you've beenthinking about it. Look, no one's going to be good at Google adsor or, let me, let me just no one's going to be goodat any of these ad platforms if they just sit there and read every blogpost and watch every youtube video on how to do it. Eventually just gotto get yourself you get your hands dirty in the platform and that means you'regoing to probably, you know, waste a few thousand dollars, you know, figuring out how to do it correctly. One thing I would always say ifyou're going to do pai paid adds on Facebook or Linkedin, keep youraudience small. It's not a good idea to have a quarter million people audience, person audience. You should be looking for like twenty five thousand to seventyfive thousand. Sometimes even the smaller the better. So, like if youhave a fourteen thousand person audience, but they're exactly what you want, don'teven worry about it. I mean that's good. So you know, volumeis not a good metric. Volume is not a good thing to be optimizingfor. And facebook, as or Linkedin, as I've made both of those mistakesin my career and of getting terrible results and I realized, you know, that's really not the best way to do it. You better to havelike a small, tight audience that's really focused. You can focus your contentto it, you can focus your messaging to it and then, frankly,you can optimize forward as well. So I would say as a takeaway,if you're going to get started small as good for your audience, optimized forconsumption, make sure you know the metrics that matter to you in terms ofconsumption. So of the video it's fifty percent video of use. If it'sa blog post, it's x amount of time on page or fifty percent scrolldepth or whatever it is you want to measure by, and then go outthere and just do it. You see what kind of see what kind ofresponse you get. I mean, you're not going to know until you're outthere doing it, and then you'll and then you'll figure it out. Imean, you know, you take do it in a do it in aweek, sprint, two weeks, print and measure and measure and iterator.Great Answer. Yeah, I would agree with everything you just said. They'rejust you got to just get started, stop waiting to, you know,figure everything out and do it perfectly. Learn as you go. Start Small, that you're not over committing on budget and you're going to make mistakes,but you learn from those right and as...

...you go you will make a lotof mistakes. Yeah, how many mistakes I've made doing course, facebook girllinked in ads because you didn't know what you were doing. You were askingfor too much information for your Webin or registration. You were trying facebook leadeLee Jenas just to see what happened. I've done that before and Eve Iwas impressed with how many people were submitting for that. It was like,these aren't the right people and you get out of here. I have noway to follow up with these people. So, you know, keep itsimple again, remember these are awareness channels and that you want to get people'sawareness with your content and you're not only asking for a demo request or anythinglike that, at least until your way down the line. So, butI would say like I didn't, I never knew how to do any ofthis stuff for or five years ago, and I'm far from an expert.I'm not going to sit there and say I'm you know I can start upfacebook consulting agency. I can't, but I at least know how to usethose platforms to find my audience. I'm and measured it for a really andthat's going to be a powerful advantage over most of the people you compete againstin your space, because, I guarantee you, if you listen to this, then you do it, you're probably ahead of like ninety percent of yourcompetitors, who are not, who are still doing trade shows, who arestill looking at print ads, who are still being in their head against thewall wondering why they can only reach one percent of their audience doing organic facebookposts. It's just like you going to have to pay to play. Sono better time to start than now. Start figuring out how to make thebudget argument to your CFO and freak me just cast a little vision on whatthe possibilities are that tell people the best way to get in touch with youand also take a moment here to tell listeners what you're doing. And inboth of your content pillars that you've been kind of working on, you've gotthe industrial marketer, which is more of a personal project with you and MjPeters, and then also within gorilla, you've recently, with our other seniorstrategist, Julian Chaff, you've started industrial marketing live, episodic recurring webinar series. Talk about those and how people can get in touch with you? Yeah, for sure. So yeah, yeah, to to things going on right now. One with guerrilla, which is industrial marketing live, which I dowith my colleague Julian Chaff, and we basically cover things like this, butwe get a little more tactical with it in terms of like content waterfalls andyou know, facebook ads and Linkedin ads and Google ads and then like justjust other stuff we have, like like high level marketing strategy, budgeting formarketing, if you're going to get more into an inbound digital sort of mindset, like we're really trying to run the whole gamut. We will bring guestson as well for the Webinar. So like and J MJ's going to comeon to be like a Webinar guests and kind of and be kind of nota third wheel, but like she's going to be got a the third persondoing one with this. So we do that every two weeks on Mondays.So definitely recommend registering for that. I will have a web page up onthe gorilla website in time and we also promoted on our newsletter, so youcan check out when we have new ones coming out and register for it andplease join us. We are about thirty minutes with live Qa. We bringyou on, we'll get really needy gritty into your problems and you can talkto us about it and it's all value like. I'm not trying to sellyou it. I'm not trying to sell you a dang thing. Like literally, just come, just come talk to us about what you're dealing with andwe'll give you our our opinion and our feedback and what what we think youshould do. Or, if we can't help you, will at least tryto send you somewhere where we think you can get more home. And thenmy other pocket, my other project, which is a personal one with MjPeters, who's end up being mentioned on here more than I have, theindustrial marketer podcast, which you could find on apple and spotify and Google,and we bringing guest to other marketers in the industrial space who we think doit on a really, really high level. So we've had people like Graham Emmermanon, we've had a taught clausser from wellcom on. We've had jackcalled the manufacturing millennial on. He's actually going to drop tomorrow and we're gettingand then we'll also do a couple episodes of by ourselves. Will talk kindof strategy and tactics as well. So...

...definitely check US out again. TheIndustrial Marketer podcast. You can find that on all the major podcasting platforms andit's a lot of fun. It's real low key, we're really scrappy aboutit and that's been one of my favorite things I've done this year. Julie, maybe believe in podcasting as a content platform for Bab industrial marketers, whichis like we didn even get into today, but I'm definitely because fan of that. And and, yeah, and also, you can reach me onLinkedin, Matthews Chanella. I'm the only Matthew Schanel on Linkedin's I'll be reallyeasy to find and please, you know, connect DM. I'm really happy totalk anything you guys got going off you have questions or just want to, you know, run stuff by me. Really always happy to do that andand give back to the marketing community. Awesome. Well, Matt, killerconversation today, my friend. I want to do this again with youin the coming months. Will pick another topic and Hash it out just liketoday. So thanks for coming on. Sure we can talk fantasy football inthe next we can do that as well. Yeah, I'm I just dropped two, three and three, so I might need some some advice. Awesome. Well, I would like to say thank you once again to our sponsor, Cadeenis, part solutions, for helping make this episode possible, and Matt, thanks for taking the time to join as for the rest of you,I hope to catch you on the next episode of the Manufacturing Executive. You'vebeen listening to the manufacturing executive podcast. To ensure that you never miss anepisode, subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player. If you'd liketo learn more about industrial marketing and sales strategy, you'll find an ever expandingcollection of articles, videos, guides and tools specifically for be tob manufacturers atgorilla seventy sixcom learn. Thank you so much for listening. Until next time,.

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