The Manufacturing Executive
The Manufacturing Executive

Episode · 2 years ago

Content Distribution: Getting Your Ass(ets) in Front of People Who Care w/ Matt Sciannella


We'd all love to create content and then sit back and wait for the phones to start ringing. But that doesn't work.

You have to be proactive. Learn how and where your prospects and customers go to consume content online and deliver it to them in those channels.

The only content that works is the content that's actually consumed.

On this episode of the podcast, I invited Matt Sciannella, Senior Strategist at Gorilla76, to talk about content distribution.

Matt and I discussed:

  1. The reasons we need to be talking about content distribution
  2. Why the mindset around the downloadable ebook is starting to change
  3. When you should venture onto a channel other than email, Facebook, LinkedIn, and YouTube

To ensure that you never miss an episode of The Manufacturing Show, subscribe on Apple Podcasts, or Spotify, or here.

I guarantee you, if you listen to this, then you do it, you're probably ahead of like ninety percent of your competitors, who are not, who are still doing trade shows, who are still looking at print ads, who are still being in their head against the wall wondering why they can only reach one percent of their audience doing organic facebook posts. Welcome to the manufacturing executive podcast, where we explore the strategies and experiences that are driving midsize manufacturers forward. Here you'll discover new insights from passionate manufacturing leaders who have compelling stories to share about their successes and struggles, and you'll learn from B tob sales and marketing experts about how to apply actionable business development strategies inside your business. Let's get into the show. Welcome to another episode of the Manufacturing Executive podcast. This show is being brought to you by our sponsor, cadinis part solutions. I'm Joe Sullivan, your host and a CO founder of the Industrial Marketing Agency grilla seventy six so when we launched this podcast earlier this year, I built a list of potential guests, but I thought could contribute something of value, and on that list was a manufacturing guy who had also just co launched a podcast, the industrial marketer. What I didn't know then was that by the time his episode came up, this guy would be working alongside me at gorilla. But the stars happened to a line late this summer and Matt Channella, formerly of Software Startup gravy and welding manufacturer Abocor Benzel, was on the job hunt right when we happen to be hiring a senior strategist at gorilla. And so here we are. So let me take a moment to introduce today's guest, Matt Schanella, of our own gorilla seventy six. Matt has been working in marketing with the trades for about nine years. He started his career doing technical and proposal writing for eight companies before transitioning to design build construction. There he was introduced to marketing and specifically inbound marketing and marketing sales alignment. In Two thousand and sixteen, Matt moved to welding equipment maker Abocor Benzel, where he began as marketing manager and moved up to marketing director for the United States and Canada. There he grew the marketing department from a print ad at trade show focused approach to inbound content and demand generation, creating over two point five million in marketing sourced pipeline and expanding the inbound marketing program internationally two countries like Brazil, Germany, Mexico and the UK. MATT MOVED TO START UP Company gravy to be their content director for a brief spell before returning to the industrial space as senior strategist here at gorilla seventy six. Matt, welcome to the show. So I just need to ask you why did it take so many episodes you to bring me on the show? If, if you have me, listen to me on anyway, because we because we just wanted to make you wait. I know, clearly, I'm I'm so happy to be on this show and also just happy to complete the industrial marketer podcast appearance on the manufacturing executive. Since MJ was your first guest, I'm hoping I won't be your last, but it would be kind of cool if we book ended being guests in your podcast. Yeah, I have, yeah, absolutely, but now you're sorry, you're not the last. I've already got about five more lined up. So good try. Well, well, Matt, we have. We've talked quite a bit on the show, you know, through the first twenty episodes or so by the time this one goes live, about content creation, from video to written to audio. We've talked about thought leadership and the idea of extracting knowledge from subject matter experts within a given organization. But we haven't really talked about yet is content distribution. So, and I know this is a passion of yours, it's one of the reasons we brought you on at Gorilla because you've done it before, you're passionate about it, you know you've seen what works and had your successes and failure. So can you start at a high level by just defining what exactly we talking about with...

...content distribution? Yeah, so, I mean on a really high level, content distribution is simply how am I going to get the assets that I make in front of the audience who cares about it? And so, in a high level that's kind of where content distribution kind of falls into place. It's and you really think about that almost before you make the content, because a large part of like where you would distribute is like, okay, what kind of piece of content in going to make? You know if I'm making a blog post, I'm probably going to be relying on SEO, relying on email, using paid media on facebook because it's rice right. So I could go distributed on that organic social media. Hopefully subject matter expert will do it. Maybe even you can have your subject matter expert posted on their Linkedin as a pulse article as well. I've seen companies do that with success. It's good way to get just additional exposure if there's no penalty for it. So distribution really just comes down to like, what a acid am I making and then how am I getting in front of my audience at a really in the most effective way possible to guarantee that they'll actually consume it? Yeah, that's a good overview. You know, I think there's like a lot of a lot of Bebe marketing strategies have been very inbound heavy over the last ten years or so and I'm a huge advocate of inbound. I'm not saying I'm not, but you can't sit back and just wait for people to show up at your doorstop, you know, unless you're just a massive organization with a ton of authority in the real world and in the online space. You've got to think beyond just publishing stuff and then waiting for people to arrive and consume it. And I think distribution is about looking at different channels, from you know, in bound to paid media to outbound, and figuring out what's how are we going to get all of these insights in front of as much of our total addressable market and with a regular cadence? Right, yeah, right. I mean, what you want is a marketer when you're doing inbound is you want people to come inbound to ask for a quote request or requested demo or RFI like that. That sales intent conversion. But in terms of content, I mean I would say you going to be mixing an inbounded outbound model with that. I mean you need to get content out in front of people. It's way too competitive right now with all the other things that you have to compete with, not just within your industry but externally as well. I mean you compete with CNN and ESPN, frankly. I mean this is what people spend their time on the Internet doing, so you better make sure that you're out there finding them where they're spending their time on those awareness channels like facebook and Linkedin, in Youtube and on those intent channels as well, like Google. So you have to have the right mix of content and distribution in order to effectively create your demand generation engine. As at an industrial company, I mean the same as it would be an assass company. A BB marketing tactic that started gaining a lot of popularity, say eight or ten years ago, is this idea of a downloadable ebook. Fill out this form, get this white paper or Ebook we made, we get your contact information. Well, over the last year or two I've started to see a big mindset shift from a lot of some of who I think are the smartest marketing people out there about this strategy. You know, can you talk a little bit about why the mindset around the downloadable ebook and exchange for contact information is starting to change? I think it does. A couple things that go into that. I think one is is the Ebook is when that's time it was made. It was really the only thing out there for you to make. Right, let's make this big Ebook, let's make it thirty to sixty pages, let's put a bunch of content in there and let's have people give us their email and information exchange and exchange for it, and it was really almost the only other than the blog, like the only content thing out there. Like webinars weren't really a thing then, youtube videos weren't really a thing. Then all the other kind of micro content stuff which we'll get into, wasn't really a thing then. So at the time the e book was a really good play and it...

...was so new and novel to most content consumers that it was like Yas this is, this is awesome. I mean this business is just giving away their information and their expertise for my email. Well, you know, fast forward now five years and everybody is doing that and everyone's just inundated with really crappy email follow ups off of ebook downloads. And now people were like, you know what, the idea of the ebook isn't very attractive to me as a content piece anymore because I know what the play is after that. It's I got a sales guy who's going to try to ask me if they can book fifteen minutes on my calendar and I'm going to download Ebook, then I'm probably not even going to read like just think of the effort now to read an Ebook I want. I mean the audience who's listening this is ask yourself, honestly, when's the last time you downloaded in ebook and read the entire thing. My guess is it would be a long time ago. I I mean for me it was like, I can't remember the last time I downloaded in Ebook, except when I download a competitor's Ebook at my last company to skim through a kind of content they were making. But for my own consumption, for my own education, for my job, that haven't done that and like two or three years, and I would argue most people's content consumptions behaviors are the same. They want to read it pretty quickly, they want it packaged in a way that they can understand it, they want it kind of on their time and they also want to do it without fearing that they're going to be hit up with like a really bad sales kidens afterwards. And so I learned that less that at Benzel kind of in my last year and a half. There were like the ebook download to the mql to my sales guy following up was just it was not producing a sales opportunity for me and people weren't reading the Ebook, and so that made me think, well, this really isn't the way people are consuming content anymore, and I mean that was happening for you even almost realized it. It took, you know, people that we follow on Linkedin, like Chris Walker, to sort of just crystallize that for me. But if I look back into my data, I'm like, yeah, it's exactly what's happening. So that's why I look at the Ebook now and I'm thinking, well, the better thing to do with your ebook today, and this is what all the great content creators do, repackage it into another form of content and get it back out into into your audience. Like just because it's sitting there collecting dust doesn't mean it doesn't have a value. It simply just needs to be repurposed into something that your audience would find valuable. Yeah, great advice there. You know, for years and years, well before the download my ebook and exchange for your contact information play book was ever a thing, manufacturers had leaned heavily into print ads and trade shows, and certainly it's still still there today. But in many ways this was awareness marketing right. It was being in front of as many of of the right people as we could, and were just less ways to do it back then and it tended to be less digital in nature. And then you know, the downloadable Ebookraz of the last decade or so shifted the focus from awareness marketing into lead Gen focus marketing or performance marketing. But it's companies are realizing how low quality a lot of these ebook leads actually are. Like you just hit on, I'm sort of seeing this shift going back in the direction of awareness marketing again, but now it's sort of a different kind of awareness marketing that the best marketers are seeking at this point, instead of print ads that's say, you know, we're Acme Corporation and here's all the amazing stuff we sell. We're talking about distributing genuinely helpful resources, relatable success stories and so on in front of the people you're trying to reach. So, Matt what I'd love to hear you talk about is what mixture of content do you see working well in this sort of new brand of awareness marketing? I mean, the real simple answer to that is the best content that's working is the content your audience cares about, so I would say. And in that regard, you actually have to go out and do, some of you know, the uncomfortable marketing work that we don't like to do. Like you know, we just want to sit in the background and be like the silent genius. But you gotta you actually got to go out and talk to your customers and visit them and kind of study how they do stuff. Like, you know,...

...if I'm watching, you know, a production engineer on a shop floor spending his free time scrolling through Facebook, I'm thinking, well, kind of, that's kind of where I want to make sure I have my content. So maybe I'm thinking not a Webinar, but maybe I'm thinking about a blog article that's written like a newspaper article, because, you know, that's kind of how how people click on stuff on on avenues like facebook and or on. thinking of a video that's caption like. You got to always think about, you know, where the production how it's allowed all that other there's noise and there's just things going around there. They're not really listening. They if you're your plugs on half the time as well. So, like I mean thinking about have some empathy for your customer and where they're at, and that's kind of where you're going to figure out the best content medium. So, to get back to your original question, like you know, I we I've been a big fan for a long time of Webinars I had. I never quite sort of got the formula for it, though I was always super intrigued by it, even like three, four years ago, when like they really started to gain traction in some spaces and I was like man, this seems like it could work really, really well if I can only figure out a how to narrate it to my leadership team, like this is why webinars are valuable, and then also like how could I extend the value of it? And so I've always been a big advocate of webinars and I kindly got this formula like about about a year ago, where it's just like, of course, the Webinar is just one piece of many that you're going to make within your you know, your content strategy. But I tend to think of content now in pillars or it's like what is the big long form piece of content that I can make that I can then chop up? I'm going to do this hand motion here, chop up and two smaller pieces of content and then distribute it out on those channels. And so the people, the way people right now consume content. They've been it's the netflixing of your of your consumer right they when they have a problem they want to find, they'll find your company if you're out there getting in front of them. And then when they have a problem, they're interested in you. They're going to want to actually consume several pieces of your content in a row. It's the same thing as if you go find a show on Netflix and that first episode gets you and all of a sudden you find yourself on episode eight by tomorrow. So I mean think of your marketing content in that sort of frame as well, like, okay, you know I'm going to do this Webinar. Well, you're not going to just do a Webino. You're actually going to try to build a whole episodic content program around your Webinar, because you ideally want your consumer to go find your first Webinar and then check out your second and then check out your third, or maybe they'll, you know, check out the little micropiece of the content you'll make from that second or third. But ideally you want them to consume several pieces of your content over a short period of time and then you go back out to them on that awareness channel and then eventually you're optimizing for again the RFQ or the demo requests. So they'll go when they have a problem, when they need an electro mechanical assembly, they're going to go, oh, Oh, I remember that company who's been I remember the cable guys who are doing that episodic video series. Let me go check them out and I'll go request the quote, and then you'll be the first thing that comes in their mind when they're ready. And that's basically how you do content at a high level today. In my opinion. You you know you you get people in your content stream and so you respect the fact that they're buying on their time on and not on yours, and so that consistency builds, no like trust, and then they come back to you when they are ready and then you find yourself right to front of the queue and they're actually ready to make them purchase. Yeah, great breakdown. Love that. Let's talk about channels for a second here for content distribution. So there's a there's a time and place for email, there's a time and place for Linkedin, for Facebook, for Youtube. Can you shed some light on what situations makes sense for utilizing any of these or other given channels? Yeah, so all these channels have will at some point in time, have a place in your distribution mix. But I think the thing you got to look at the most,...

...more than anything. This is another awkward things from marketers in the industrial space. The price of your product. The price of your product actually will have an enormous impact on which channels are right for you, because you got to think about this. Is what kind of the analysis in the metrics go into it. But if you're selling a five thousand dollar product, you probably shouldn't be distributing content paid at least on Linkedin, because it's too expensive and you're going to lose money to acquire are a customer. Not Worth it. Now, if now facebook, if you could target properly, much better, you'll pay, you know, a quarter of the price, if not less, to find that exact same audience. If you can target properly, youtube saying deal extremely cost effective. So to me the best channels are the ones that are cost effective for you, where most of your audience lives and where you can get at them repeatedly with the same kind of content over and over and over again. So that's really my best device is to figure out which products you have or solutions you have that have the most upside for you as a business and as a marker, you feel you can make content around the best and promote. Figure out how much that cost the average customer for you over a year and then every succeeding year, because I wanted up space. He was listening to this. You probably are relying on the residual revenue model of where items are consumables or replacement parts or like service maintenance or something like that. So figure out, over like five to six years, like what's the lifetime value of this customer and then let that kind of stuff influence what's the best channel for me to push content out on, and at least in the paid medium manner, because if you do that of front work it, it'll reveal itself. I'm going to ask you one follow up there. So I think, I think a lot of companies, I've seen this happen in my own conversations. They you say facebook and BETB industrial and they think, like you know, is that kind of like, you know, for Good B Toc and and for MOMS to share pictures of their kids are or whatever. But you talk about the power of facebook specifically, just because I think a lot of manufacturers wouldn't necessarily go there first or they think of that as a good channel for them. Yeah, I would. I mean to anyone who doesn't think their customers are on facebook. Ask Yourself, are you on facebook? Are Your brothers or sisters on facebook? Are Your kids on facebook if you're of a certain age, and the chances are probably yes, and they probably still spend more time on facebook than any other social media channel. Now, all of the ethical problems of facebook is a totally fair debate when you can have that on your own time. But to me, like the the idea that your customers are not on facebook is ludicrous, because they are and you can if in depending on the industry you're and you can just target by the job title. So if you want to go find a manufacturing engineer on facebook, guess what you can target in by that job title. If you want to find a welder on facebook, guess what you could target them a job title. If you want to find a CNC machine, it's on facebook. Guess what you can target about job title and you can do all of the really cool targeting things with it. Now all those job titles to me sound like industrial job titles that most people listening to this podcast will want to get in front of, depending on what you sell. So and also these people are on here there and engaged. And if you want proof of that, go find some of those facebook groups that are out there around those kinds of categories and go see how many people are are posting and engaging all those on those groups, because you'll be, I'm not pleasantly surprised, but you will be shocked and how many people are on there doing that and how many are participating and active on there. And fristically, they're just they're just there to be found. I mean you just need a good content offer, a good content strategy, and you can. You can get them really for a lot cheaper than you would, a lot cheaper actually, than you would to try to do a like a print ad on your on your in Your Trade Organization magazine. I mean, this is an exponentially larger audience that you...

...can get for weight cheaper for impression, and you can measure it in a way that's important to you. So yeah, I mean, I I don't know why facebook is a debate as an advertising platform for for industrial for industrial marketers and industrial companies, but I mean you're just just make me look a lot better for for thing in that. Well, you know, it's just comes back to that simple question. Where's your customer? Where do they consume content? How do they consume content? You just need to understand them and how they how they, you know, consume information? Right, oh, yeah, absolutely. And like the other thing is like these the algorithms at these these social media platforms are using there's so much smarter than me and you and presidents and CFOs and CEOS of companies like like you can. It's Fermographic, it's demographic, it's job title, it's age, it's geographical, like you can get so focused if you want to, and it's really not that difficult to use. I think. Think one things that happens with a lot of ad platforms, for a lot of marketers is they over complicate it, like they're trying and they try to do the wrong things on these platforms, which is we get. I'm like, I'm meanly pulled us back to content distribution because I feel like I got off topic here. So, like, I think a lot of people want to go on facebook and go send out there, you know, nice new like their Swiss texty and tea machine or whatever it is they're selling, and go hey book a demo with us now, without warming that audience stuff with anything else beforehand, and it's like this goes back to my point about awareness verse intent. So like facebook and linkedin our awareness channels and Google is an intent channel. So awareness literally means you need to disrupt them in their news feed with content that is compelling and educational and valuable and, you know, entertaining, and get an interrupt literally their their scroll pattern and get them to engage with that. Whereas on Google, these people know what they're looking for because they're typing into the search engine, like I am looking for a UCNC machine and you want to make sure that you're popping up on that with Google ads or, if your seo is good enough, your own organic search result. So when I'm thinking of facebook and Linkedin, I'm not thinking of that sort of conversion like people are going on linked in or facebook looking for you SEEINGC machines. They're going to look at what other people are posting for content, and so me as a marketer, I want to make sure that I am when I'm distributing content, I'm dishivingy content that's very similar to what my audience is looking for. I just need to package it up again. This goes back to packaging, making it, making it interesting and compelling enough that they'll clip through and read it and consume it. So that's sort of how, in my opinion, content distribution works in a very simple, high level. I just think a lot of people don't have the discipline to allow that to play out because it takes time. We're going to take a really quick break here to help pay the bills. So two thousand and twenty has been a weird year. Industries are facing new challenges as we navigate life without trade shows, events and in person meetings. Many businesses are bolstering their online tools to offer a better experience. Will also making up for some of those missing trade show leads, and that's where a cademist part solutions comes in. They help you create a dynamic, sharable cad catalog that you put on your website. Designers can preview your products from any angle and download and the format that they prefer. By improving the online experience, engineers and architects get the data they need for their design and you get a fresh lead in your marketing pipeline. Who Needs Trade shows anyway? To learn more visit part solutionscom leads. Yeah, you brought up a really important point here, I think, and and this is where you know, we as marketers, we've got to shift our mindset, especially when the thing you sell is a big, complex, long sales cycle, you know, custom piece of machinery or solution. You know, just as in part you'd meet somebody in person, you're not going to sell them something on the spot,...

...right. That's not how it works. And this is such an opportunity for you to to be in front of people on a consistent basis, to deliver things that are purely interesting to them, that are, you know, going to peak their interest, that are going to demonstrate thought leadership for you, they're going to be helpful to them and answer questions they have and help solve problems, and the social chanters are such a great way to do that, for people to consume little nuggets of information over time and do you, for you to start sort of occupying a place in their mind as a leader and an authority on these subjects that are your specialty. And you can't go in with the mindset that I'm trying to get demo's booked like, yeah, maybe, depends on what you sell, of course, but when, when you're a manufacture selling a complex solution. That's not the mindset here that we're trying to get in front of people. We're trying to build awareness, build trust, earn attention and and then when your top of mind, when people are at the right place in their buyers journey, which you can't control, they control, you're the first one they think of right, right, and looked. I mean just thinking about your own sales cycle as a company. If it takes you twelve months to sell your product because it's a consultative sales process, your marketing, content distribution strategy is not going to accelerate that to six months. It's just simply not. It's simply going to buy more people to get in that kind of twelvemonth sales cycle and then it maybe, over time, it will accelerate it by, you know, a couple months. You know, maybe you'll go from twelve months to ten months or twelve or like twelve and nine. But, like, it's not. It's not. It's not panacea right, like, it's not. It's not going to solve all of your marketing problems for you and it's not going to magically, you know, accelerate your sale cycle by a hundred percent. That's just that's is not how it works. And to the point of the demo request, that I do think it's okay to ask to like go like, request to demo here, request the quote, but you can't do that with your first advert like pay media effort right, like you have to. You have to breed no, like trust with that same audience over and over and over and over again before you ask for the quote. Or you can build some retargeting off of specific pages. So, like if they go to your RFQ page or they go to your contact this page and you're like Um, okay, that's a high level, that's that's a that's some where I want to retarget and just try to get them into you know, to give me that Rfq or give me that demo request. Yeah, I mean that's that's that makes sense. But, like, overall, especially when you're doing cold targeting. No, I mean cold targeting is pattern disruption, great content, get in front of them, build no like trust. Package your content to be consumed, which is another point I haven't made yet, because when you pack your content to be consumed on social you're not publishing a threezero word blog posts for them to read. You actually want to write something that's like, you know, six hundred, nine hundred words and so you can guarantee they'll actually read it, because there's no point in distributing out your blog post to your cold targeted audience on facebook if they're gonna check it out and if they're going to click through and then bounce out because they're like, this is way too much for me to read that. Can you cite an example or two of manufacturing organizations, whether there's you know, somebody you've been a part of helping or just what you've observed from the outside, but you know a company that has put this type of content distribution strategy into play and successfully, and sort of explain how you've seen them make it happen? The best example is your is one of your past guest Mj, and what she's done a firetrace. I mean firetrace kills it. I mean she has tech companies asking her for advice, and for good reason, because she knows what she's doing. And so firetraces probably the example I would lean to the most. So they have it all figured out because they sell one product there they segment very well, like they got their CNC machine division and then they had their wind turbine kind of division, and so they kind of know like okay, what they know how to segment...

...and they know what information matters to them the boat. So they're targeting is very locked tight. They also know CNC machinist. They PAYBACKTORI. It isn't there on Linkedin. So we're just going to go on facebook and go find CNC machinists and go give you distribute content to them. Or as their wind turbine sector, they are on Linkedin and the cost it's more like it's like a half million for them or whatever. So really only Dan because that actually makes sense for me. So know, firetrace to me's the best example. They do such a great job mixing like blog content with webinars as well as they have great case studies and testimonials from customers that they distribute to and they just they just run a really tight, it's very simple to a really tight and simple marketing operation with their with their content. So again it cook to me. It goes down to like do not over complicate how you do content and that that's and that's how you end up doing something, doing something really mediocre like firetrace is like Webinars, blogs, case studies and testimonials, and it's like that's all we're going to do and we're going to distribute over and over and over again on Youtube and on Linkedin and on facebook, and they got a whole machine going because, I mean again, they recognize how much their product is and they recognize how much it costs to distribute it on these paid media platforms and they've made it a very cost effective operation for them. So takes a little bit of strategy, takes a little bit of math and then it takes making good content and then it takes going to find your audience where they live and getting content out to him. So I would highly recommend checking out firetrace and kind of what they do. I wouldn't Mja gets hit up by everybody, but if you want to try that to Mj, go for but I mean they're there, to me, the best example out there. If you're a midsize industrial company trying to figure out how to do this, well, like they're their masters for all at it. There you go, everybody, go check out firetrace and what Mj Peters is doing. If you if you're active on Linkedin. MJ publishes a lot of great content and advice there herself. So good's good suggestion, Matt. How do you figure out how much to invest in a paid media budget for content distribution? That's a good question. I would always start small just to see what your audience looks like. So you should get into like get into habit of like taking a thousand bucks to kind of test there or five hundred bucks. That's what you have. I can tell you a Benzel, when I left, we were we were putting about nine grand a month and to into paid media, and so I think that's a number of that every miss. If you're if you're doing thirty five million dollars a year as a as a BDB industrial company, and you're given your marketing team, like, you know, one to two, one, one of two present a revenue for it. Know, for budget, you should be striving to spend, in my opinion, nine grand a month for paid media for Facebook, Linkedin, Youtube and finding the right mix. So, depending on the channel, would depend on how much I would invest, but usually a thousand is a pretty good test balloon for a channel to see if it works. But you should know honestly pretty quickly if it's working or not people and don't worry about things like our people commenting on it or people liking it. Like that's really not what you should be measuring for your paid media. If it's videos, you should be measuring how many people were watching. You know, fifty percent of it is probably what I would I would put as my witness how much my paying for that view and then have to ask myself, is it worth me paying three cents for or my audience, which I believe it is well targeted to view, to view fifty percent of my three minute video and you have to make that decision for yourself and say, okay, is that worth the investment? For me I would usually say yes, but some other people would think maybe not. But that's kind of how I would think about measuring content and then, you know, using my budget on on channels like facebook. The other thing is, like you know if you're doing a blog or a case study, that it's on your website. Don't do PDS. I've seen companies do that. Do not try to like link the the PDF. You can't measure that and you're analytics are in your hub spot. So if you were to do a... post and let's say say a hundred eight und your words should take someone about two minutes to read that, maybe three. So do that paid on paid on facebook, and then go to your analyps and say, okay, is it worth be paying a dollar twenty five to ensure that you know x amount of people spend two minutes and thirty seconds reading my blog post? And then I have to make that decision as a marketing leader. You know, is it? Is that worth it to me and for me, and most of the time it would be yes. And then you're simply connecting dots. At that point it's like, okay, do we have an increase in direct traffic submissions for Urfq's of Demo request? Do we have an increase in Google organic submissions for Demo and R Q requests? And you just simply have to connect the dots of your activity with the result that you're optimizing for. And so that it, to me, is how you do it, because attribution is messy and dirty and your sales director and your president and your CFO, they're going to want to know how is it? How's attribution working? And I'm not saying I don't believe an attribution, but I think attribution is it's messy and I think it optimizes for the wrong stuff. Honestly, like if you saw all those things, if you saw an uptick in Google organic search for an R Q, but you really weren't posting a lot of Seo optimize blog posts because you were distributing that content on facebook, you just look then and say we need to invest more in Seo, instead of saying I actually need to put more into facebook adds. So I mean just have you know, take a step back, look at your activity versus your result and then decide like, is this working for me or not, and the numbers will come out. It may mean you'll have to do a little bit of storytelling your leadership team, but that's honestly what it takes to get to get budget and and and to use the channels that that are that are working for you. Because if you're sitting there just trying to put facebook adds to demo request, you never got to get any results and they're going to say facebook ads don't work. You never going to get a chance to do it the right way. Right answer, mad is there anything else you want to add? To this conversation that we haven't touched on. Yeah, I would say get started now if you're if you've been thinking about it. Look, no one's going to be good at Google ads or or, let me, let me just no one's going to be good at any of these ad platforms if they just sit there and read every blog post and watch every youtube video on how to do it. Eventually just got to get yourself you get your hands dirty in the platform and that means you're going to probably, you know, waste a few thousand dollars, you know, figuring out how to do it correctly. One thing I would always say if you're going to do pai paid adds on Facebook or Linkedin, keep your audience small. It's not a good idea to have a quarter million people audience, person audience. You should be looking for like twenty five thousand to seventy five thousand. Sometimes even the smaller the better. So, like if you have a fourteen thousand person audience, but they're exactly what you want, don't even worry about it. I mean that's good. So you know, volume is not a good metric. Volume is not a good thing to be optimizing for. And facebook, as or Linkedin, as I've made both of those mistakes in my career and of getting terrible results and I realized, you know, that's really not the best way to do it. You better to have like a small, tight audience that's really focused. You can focus your content to it, you can focus your messaging to it and then, frankly, you can optimize forward as well. So I would say as a takeaway, if you're going to get started small as good for your audience, optimized for consumption, make sure you know the metrics that matter to you in terms of consumption. So of the video it's fifty percent video of use. If it's a blog post, it's x amount of time on page or fifty percent scroll depth or whatever it is you want to measure by, and then go out there and just do it. You see what kind of see what kind of response you get. I mean, you're not going to know until you're out there doing it, and then you'll and then you'll figure it out. I mean, you know, you take do it in a do it in a week, sprint, two weeks, print and measure and measure and iterator. Great Answer. Yeah, I would agree with everything you just said. They're just you got to just get started, stop waiting to, you know, figure everything out and do it perfectly. Learn as you go. Start Small, that you're not over committing on budget and you're going to make mistakes, but you learn from those right and as... go you will make a lot of mistakes. Yeah, how many mistakes I've made doing course, facebook girl linked in ads because you didn't know what you were doing. You were asking for too much information for your Webin or registration. You were trying facebook leade Lee Jenas just to see what happened. I've done that before and Eve I was impressed with how many people were submitting for that. It was like, these aren't the right people and you get out of here. I have no way to follow up with these people. So, you know, keep it simple again, remember these are awareness channels and that you want to get people's awareness with your content and you're not only asking for a demo request or anything like that, at least until your way down the line. So, but I would say like I didn't, I never knew how to do any of this stuff for or five years ago, and I'm far from an expert. I'm not going to sit there and say I'm you know I can start up facebook consulting agency. I can't, but I at least know how to use those platforms to find my audience. I'm and measured it for a really and that's going to be a powerful advantage over most of the people you compete against in your space, because, I guarantee you, if you listen to this, then you do it, you're probably ahead of like ninety percent of your competitors, who are not, who are still doing trade shows, who are still looking at print ads, who are still being in their head against the wall wondering why they can only reach one percent of their audience doing organic facebook posts. It's just like you going to have to pay to play. So no better time to start than now. Start figuring out how to make the budget argument to your CFO and freak me just cast a little vision on what the possibilities are that tell people the best way to get in touch with you and also take a moment here to tell listeners what you're doing. And in both of your content pillars that you've been kind of working on, you've got the industrial marketer, which is more of a personal project with you and Mj Peters, and then also within gorilla, you've recently, with our other senior strategist, Julian Chaff, you've started industrial marketing live, episodic recurring webinar series. Talk about those and how people can get in touch with you? Yeah, for sure. So yeah, yeah, to to things going on right now. One with guerrilla, which is industrial marketing live, which I do with my colleague Julian Chaff, and we basically cover things like this, but we get a little more tactical with it in terms of like content waterfalls and you know, facebook ads and Linkedin ads and Google ads and then like just just other stuff we have, like like high level marketing strategy, budgeting for marketing, if you're going to get more into an inbound digital sort of mindset, like we're really trying to run the whole gamut. We will bring guests on as well for the Webinar. So like and J MJ's going to come on to be like a Webinar guests and kind of and be kind of not a third wheel, but like she's going to be got a the third person doing one with this. So we do that every two weeks on Mondays. So definitely recommend registering for that. I will have a web page up on the gorilla website in time and we also promoted on our newsletter, so you can check out when we have new ones coming out and register for it and please join us. We are about thirty minutes with live Qa. We bring you on, we'll get really needy gritty into your problems and you can talk to us about it and it's all value like. I'm not trying to sell you it. I'm not trying to sell you a dang thing. Like literally, just come, just come talk to us about what you're dealing with and we'll give you our our opinion and our feedback and what what we think you should do. Or, if we can't help you, will at least try to send you somewhere where we think you can get more home. And then my other pocket, my other project, which is a personal one with Mj Peters, who's end up being mentioned on here more than I have, the industrial marketer podcast, which you could find on apple and spotify and Google, and we bringing guest to other marketers in the industrial space who we think do it on a really, really high level. So we've had people like Graham Emmerman on, we've had a taught clausser from wellcom on. We've had jack called the manufacturing millennial on. He's actually going to drop tomorrow and we're getting and then we'll also do a couple episodes of by ourselves. Will talk kind of strategy and tactics as well. So...

...definitely check US out again. The Industrial Marketer podcast. You can find that on all the major podcasting platforms and it's a lot of fun. It's real low key, we're really scrappy about it and that's been one of my favorite things I've done this year. Julie, maybe believe in podcasting as a content platform for Bab industrial marketers, which is like we didn even get into today, but I'm definitely because fan of that. And and, yeah, and also, you can reach me on Linkedin, Matthews Chanella. I'm the only Matthew Schanel on Linkedin's I'll be really easy to find and please, you know, connect DM. I'm really happy to talk anything you guys got going off you have questions or just want to, you know, run stuff by me. Really always happy to do that and and give back to the marketing community. Awesome. Well, Matt, killer conversation today, my friend. I want to do this again with you in the coming months. Will pick another topic and Hash it out just like today. So thanks for coming on. Sure we can talk fantasy football in the next we can do that as well. Yeah, I'm I just dropped two, three and three, so I might need some some advice. Awesome. Well, I would like to say thank you once again to our sponsor, Cadeenis, part solutions, for helping make this episode possible, and Matt, thanks for taking the time to join as for the rest of you, I hope to catch you on the next episode of the Manufacturing Executive. You've been listening to the manufacturing executive podcast. To ensure that you never miss an episode, subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player. If you'd like to learn more about industrial marketing and sales strategy, you'll find an ever expanding collection of articles, videos, guides and tools specifically for be tob manufacturers at gorilla seventy sixcom learn. Thank you so much for listening. Until next time,.

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