The Manufacturing Executive
The Manufacturing Executive

Episode · 11 months ago

Create a Dashboard Effect: Drive Your Work With Data w/ Jon Thompson

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Twenty years ago, we barely had enough info to measure our impact. Today, manufacturing marketers are overwhelmed with data, and everyone wants to sell us software to find, store, clean, surface, and use that data.

Why is data such a big buzzword in business, especially manufacturing?

On this episode of the podcast, I invited Jon Thompson, co-founder and senior partner at Blue Margin Inc, a company of 38 consultants and engineers who help mid-market companies with an emphasis on industrials use their data to create growth.

Jon and I talked about:

  1. Why data needs to go from the c-suite all the way to the frontline worker
  2. The idea of numbers as a motivator
  3. The biggest challenges manufacturers face when controlling and using their data

Check out this resource we mentioned during the podcast:

The Dashboard Effect

To ensure that you never miss an episode of The Manufacturing Show, subscribe on Apple Podcasts, or Spotify, or here.

The beauty of harnessing your data andputting it in dashboard form that's easy to consume and relevant to theperson consuming it. What's so nice about that is it's an automated way toengage everybody around the highest priority, the highest value creationinitiatives and get everyone in a shared mission. Welcome to the manufacturing executivepodcast, where we explore the strategies and experiences that aredriving midsize manufacturers forward here. You'll discover new insights frompassionate manufacturing leaders who have compelling stories to share abouttheir successes and struggles and youwill learn from btob sales andmarketing experts about how to apply actionable business developmentstrategies inside your business. Let's get into the show, welcome to another episode of theManufacturing Executive Podcast, this showis being brought to you by oursponsor cadinus part solutions. I'm Joe Sullivan, your Houst in a cofounder ofthe Industrial Marketing Agency, Gerrilla, seventy six, so I entered the work force in twothousand and five after graduating from Undergrad, and I don't know that Icould have stepped into the marketing world at a better time. I wasinterested in digital media, web design, online marketing, digital advertising,etcea and then, in November of that exact same year, two thousand and five,a new Google product was released. It's name, Google analytics it blows my mind,looking back and thinking wow. This is a tool that just about every companyrelies on to harness data about their audience, how their audience finds themand interacts with their website, and it didn't even exist until fifteenyears ago before then, a marketer's ability to measure the impact of theirefforts was just so primitive. The advancements in harnessingmarketing data that have unfolded since center are really pretty unbelievable.If you stop and think about it- and I...

...use this example not because we'retalking about marketing analytics today, that'll be a great topic, but one foranother episode. Instead, I want to call attention to how quickly the worldhas changed in terms of our ability to access, interpret and use data to makedecisions all throughout our businesses and what an interesting time inparticular, it is in manufacturing with the emergence of the Smart Factory andIot Technologies. THRD, printing, advanced robotics, autonus vehicles and,and all of these things have just made data so much more essential than everbefore, and it's a good lead into my guest today, who I'm really excited tointroduce John Thompson, is a CO founder and senior partner at bluemargin. Ink A company of Thirty Eight consultants and engineers in Coloradowho help midmarket companies, with an emphasis on industrials, use their datato create growth by getting everyone to play from the same playbook, an author and speaker, John Shed'slight, and how you can create the dashboard effect, which is the title ofhis book as well. A revolution in business that helps companies thrivethrough data. John Welcome to the show. Thank you joe glad to be hereappreciate it well John. Before we dive into thistopic of data, can you tell our listeners just a little bit more aboutyourself and your journey? That's Ledye, to where you are today sure yeah, my brother and I are thefounders of this company. We started out in thecom age in two thousand. Webuilt a business that was venture back where we took data from enterprisecompanies around their telecom expense back when cell phones did not haveunlimited plans and so on. In Telecom was a major line item and we took theirbills. That would come literally in a box, a stack of paper and we would scanit. We'd pars the data, and we would identify areas for them to find savingsand really were able to do a lot with that. We actually grew P to a fivehundred person company that was pe back by one ecuity partners called verquitybecame the name of the company and when...

...we we went on various adventures fromthere in real estate andother things. But when we got back into starting abusiness, we decided we wanted to do things that enable companies, throughessentially the cloud and started out in in cloud productivity, Google andthen Microsoft, office, hre, dred and sixty five were now Microsoft, goldpartners and focused solely on data and business intelligence, which is astrange phrase that means dashboards. Essentially, I like to think of it asdata intelligence and we dove in their full full force, working with midmarket,again emphasis on industrials that have been helping them ever since ourfocuses is around changing company culture, which affects operations,productivity profitability and the polic satisfaction, and so on, andthat's that's what e wrote the book about the DASHBARD effect? It's great.Why is data such a big buzz word in business right now, an particularly inmanufacturing? Would you say yeah, it really is there's a few factors thathave lent to that big shift. You hear everyone talking about and throwingaround, like you say, buzzwords, big data, artificial intelligence and so on.One of the reasons is that everything we do produces data, so all themachines and manufacturing that we use all of our accounting, all of our sales,all of our HR. Every bit of operations produces data because we're usingtransactional systems, ie software, and that leaves an artifact that shows youhow you've performed and where you're trending and so there's a realopportunity there, as companies have really streamlined how they operatewith you know, various managements, philosophies and techniques, and so on,they're looking for that, next, frontier and data appears to be thatopportunity to really leverage an asset that you already have. So companies areturning more and more to that and all of the gurus it seems in business, arereally pushing for data as the big...

...changer for an organization, there wasan hbr article, Harbor Business Review. Where the the author said. If you wantto motivate your employees, stop following your instincts and take adata driven approach, and if you look at crosspeter drucker and anyone else,you can get your hands on there speaking to data. Another reason thatit's really become a big buzz word is that the tools to harness and mobilizeyour data, like power, Bi in the case of of Microsoft or tableau or click orany number of a hundred different platforms that are out there and thatseem to be appearing daily, are making I much more accessible, financially andtechnically to be able to connect to your data sources, get it wrangled inand produce something that gives you instrumentation and insight so thatyyou're able to operate more intentionally less reactively. I wouldalso say t that business culture and the mindset ofemployees has shifted a lot with the information age. You have employeesmoving on from one job to the next. Every two point five years and part ofthat is that more than salary or retirement planemployees are looking for agency and involvement and ownership of their work,and data really provides a great way to do that, rather than the sort of oldmodel of we will do all of our insights and strategy in the boardroom and thenpush those through an organization. Twenty layers. Deep companies are finding that if they putthat instrumentation in front of everyone right down to the line worker,you get much better engagement, you get much more employee satisfaction and itbegins to turn the tide on some of those shifts in culture, so t thatcompanies can take advantage of them rather than watch employees go in andout through a revolving door. That's great! In two thousand andnineteen, you publishe your book, the Dashboard Effect, which was cooteredwith your brother and business partner,...

...and can you kind of tell us a littlebit about what the Dash Board effect is all about yeah yeah, so the dashboardeffect takes a particular angle on this trend around using data and business.Typically, when companies think about data they're thinking about theexecutives, we need better reporting. That's more consistent. We need to beable to answer questions, hat oure fingertips instead of requestingspreadsheets and Adhawk meetings and all the overhead that goes with that,and that is a good place to start the most influential people in anorganization. typially, typically, are the executives, but what we found isthat democratizing data democratizing dashboards and insight andinstrumentation as we call it throughout an organization, has somephenomenal impacts where you get everyone with a shared vision, withshared accountability, where they own their area of the business where theyhave the same tools, essentially flinging open the boardroom doors andgiving everyone the same tools appropriate for their role that theexecutives have so that they can think strategically make the right decisionsfocus on the highest priority that that's what the dashboard effectis. It's a whole organization having clear visibility and the impact that ithas. It also reduces things like micromanagement and politics which aredriven out of a lack of clarity when you're not sure how someone's doing youstay on top of them when you're not sure how you're doing and how t theOrganization perceives your performance. You fall to politics, a lot when youmake that empirical and it's in numbers and people can see here's the goal,here's how they're trending towards it or not hears why it allows for muchmore direct discussion. Much more agency on the part of the employee, sothat's that's the idea of the dashboard effect in the book. We outline herhere's why organizations do that and...

...the benefits and how you can get intothat? There were a number of times in the book you drew on concepts fromCharles coonred's book, the game of work, which essentially likened runninga business to playing a game in sports, the simplest numbers on the score boardservice, the motivation behind why players play and show up and ultimatelywhy we watch them do it and by the way you had me in the first line of thebook, where you recalled Odel, Backam, juniors famous one handed catch againstthe cowboys back in two thousand and fourteen is a huge NFL fan. That's whan,I won't forget, but can you unpack this idea of numbers as a motivator yeah? You Bet- and I put I in the bookat that- was one of the greatest catches in NFL history. I really thinkit was by a long stretch. You know double double meaning theyre, thegreatest catch inapilistry. It's really amazing and, as we point out in thebook, you know you can look at the highlights of any any weekend and seeheroics or any game really and see how how do people do that and what Cunradsays is if you want to improve the quality performance in any area,improve or increase the frequency of the feedback? That's the simpleprinciple that so many business gooes hold to and that it sort of measurewhat matters type of thing. If you want to manage it measure it so numbers really give you a fixed Bogithat you're after without them, you get this vague, an constant pressure to dobetter, which is tough for executives in line employees alike. When you givesomeone a very concrete goal, a singular, concrete goal that gives thema sense of stability and firm footing and really drives focus andprioritization. If you are to play golf, it's a beautiful place to be groomedenvironment and it's lovely and fun to swing the club and when youoccasionally hit it at the center of the face, and it makes that click it'seems all worth it. But without a hole...

...at the end, it loses all of its meaningand for some reason we tend to leave that aspect of human nature at theoffice door and assume that instead of scorekeeping and having a a definite,measurable goal to go after what we need is good job descriptions, goodcompensation packages, an annual review things like that, and those worked fora long time in the very sort of top heavy top down, authoritative businessenvironment of of the industrial revolution, but less so in businessculture today, and so, if you can give folks the same motivators that willdrive those heroics that you saw with Odell and again any game and anyprofessional sport or any sport. It changes the dynamic for them and reallyleverages human nature and our desire to achieve and to have that achievement,be concrete and recognized and measured and clear. So that's the idea behindkeeping score, will drive, motivation and prove performance. We're going totake a thirty second breether here for a word from our sponsor cadinus partsolutions. Let's talk real quick about getting specified. Are you a componentmanufacturer? Maybe you sell architectural products to parks orlarge facilities, engineers and architects need models of your productsto test fit in their designs. That's where cadinus comes in to help youcreate a dynamic, sharable, cad catalogue. You put on your website.Designers can preview the product from any angle and download it in the formatthey prefer. They get the data they need for their design, and you get afresh lead to add to your marketing pipeline to get one of your productsturned into an online thred model for free use, the code executive at part,SOLUTIONSCOM executive. How do how have you seen the businessworld change over the last pect the...

...last decade, or so in terms of use ofdata inside of operations? Yeah a lot it's funny, because we don't run intomany companies that have their data really as a managed asset. It's morelike a tide, that's coming at them that they're trying to harness- and you know you can't youcan't fight the tide when you don't have a good controlled way of managingit. ENTROPE kicks in and you get data chaos before you know it, and socompanies will again cople together large and complex spreadsheets, withall sorts of versions of the truth, depending on where, in the businessyou're looking at data, an that can be very challenging, but companies are areusing data much more. Despite that that difficulty excel has more than abillion instances deployed on the earth. It is you know, sort of the one of theprimary go to tools, an business and is a phenomenal tool, but with the recentlast ten years, fifteen years, development of these platforms that gomuch beyond excel that are connected directly to your systems that producedata, so theyr automatically update your data mark and they and thatautomatically updates your reports. Companies are realizing that clearvisibility rather than reactivity and relying on instinct and experience,which are all good. You have to have those skills, but if you can, if youcan fortify that with clear visibility into what's happening empirically andnot get trapped in sort of the bias effect, where you're looking for thingsthat confirm your decisions and you're hiding from things that are that seemtoo difficult to deal with data eliminates a lot of that, and so we'reseeing a big change and again part of that, as I mentioned before, is thiscultural changing business where employees want more agency wherethey're more transient between jobs and if they're not engaged, if you're notengaging the full person, if you're...

...treating them like a cog in the machineand saying here's your function, do this? Do it well and you'll bepressured? And if you don't do it well, you're fired and if you do do it? Well,that's expected! So, whatever you see much more wanting to get peopleinvolved at every level and and harnessd their fuller potential, sowe're seeing that that change in culture driving this desire for greatervisibility into data in manufacturing. You see that like crazy, becausemanufacturing is globalized, had become more commoditized and manufacturersneed to look for those margins that give them anadvantage, and data is one of the ways to really zero in on those things wherethey can. They can increase efficiency, whether it's inventory, management oror on time delivery, or you name it so on that topic of you know applyingthese concepts to the manufacturings but sector specifically because I knowyou've worked with a number of manufacturing organizations at bluemargin. It's seems to be one of your specialties right. So what are some ofthe biggest challenges that manufactures specifically are facing?In terms of you know, getting control of and making use of their data yeahwell manufacturing is a complex operation. You have a lot of piecesthat run sort of separately, but have to coordinate, really well sounderstanding your sales projections, first of all, sales people,understanding their byour trends and knowing who is falling off or nottaking advantage of a broader swath of their products or have a as asatisfaction issue or has run into ontime delivery problems, those sortsof things they need to know that to know who to pay attention to and asthey begin to fill the funnel and have projections. That is important for thepurchasing folks to be able to know what to have on the shelves to be ableto deliver quickly. That, then translates to the inventory folks whoare trying to keep free up as much cash as possible and minimize slow movinginventory have the right things on the shelf: Have Strategies to get rid ofstuff that is becoming more obsolete,...

...and then that has to do with the supplychain and on time, delivery and envoicing a an order to cash and so on.So all those things need to coordinate it's very, very difficult, and thoseare some of the areas that we've really focused on with our manufacturingclients. We've also focused heavily on machine employee utilization. We have aclient that their quazi manufacture they do install in maintenance on acommercial and industrial level. They have five hundred texts and with betterinsight on techutalization being able to coordinate that body of employees,they increase their their employeutilization from sixty to eightypercent, with five hundred tex that comes to about five million dollars ontheir bottom line, and I have actually a couple other quotes from some roukclients that I think are useful. This is from a client that does specializedhandicap wheelchairs in the like, and he said you know it's amazing how muchthese dashboards are being used. It's like we invented fire, that's a commonresponse for an organization that has been relying on mainly producespreadsheets and so on. Another one I won't mention the company, but thegeneral manager said our Datais very complex, but now we have clearvisibility into critical areas such as order to cash and ar another onefastener manufacturing company. After reviewing our DASHBOARDS. I realizethis might be the most important thing I've been involved with in the lastfive years in this company, and I mentione those because we see thatlightbold moment so often and where companies really struggle is in gettingstarted there. Their data seems like a massive hairball that can never beuntangled and we help them to in regardless of working with blue marginor whomever a company should start with a small area. That is light, lift andhigh impact. Where can we get the most impact for the for the least effort andbegin to seed that that visibility...

...through dashboards and have those lightbuld moments as soon as they get that then they're often running? It reallyis a catalyst for moving towards becoming a data driven organization anddealing with things like inventory and on time, delivery and so on. So thoseare. Those are some of the areas that we've seen manufactures really takeadvantage. Are there any tangible examples? You know success story, oreven just an application that need to make this tangible for someone of youow how company has successfully used their data n and what it's meant fortheir bottom line yeah. So we have a a manufacture of aerospace parts and theyare really focused on on time delivery across various plants. What they didwas to set up a calendar- that's color coded that shows either month to dateor can show the entire month, and it shows by day how they're doing on theirowntime delivery and they created an internal benchmark so that from oneplant, the other they could see. Here's out the five plants are doing. Comparethose and create that competitive spirit. We've talked about with thegame of work and numbers being a motivator, then we're able to improvetheir on time delivery significantly. I don't have a bottom line number forthat, but the VP at that company Sai, are our power. Bi reports have takenhold, enabling us to monitor improve our efficiency. In that case, he'sspeaking specifically to their owntime delivery, so that that ability tocreate that competitive edge without creating a wall of shame, but justsaying look: Ere yere's what we have internally. This is our bench mark foron time. Delivery really help them to shore that up on that calendar, whenyou see a lot of reds for one plant- and you see a lot of Greens for anotherthat one with the red they want to fix it quickly. It follows that CharlesScwab story that you've probably heard everyone's heard, but where he wasrunning a steel factory and walked in the morning and said how many heats didwe generate to day and they said six.

So he took a piece of chalk and wrote abig six on the floor and left and the next crew came in and said whatat six? Oh, that's what the last crew produced and, by the end of the daythat was scratched out, and there was a seven it's it's just that ability to get that feedbackloop. That really drives people to think about. How can I be moreefficient, as opposed to this vague sense of we're doing stuff, but we'renot sure what it means, so those are St the types of applications that we seeyeah having something tangible or a visual that you can just makes it moreconcrete, can be such a powerful thing. Yeah Yeah, you know it seems like there arecountless platforms and services out there that promote big data andartificial itelet intelligence, machine learning, andteyeaof things, etc. Howcan manufacturers make sense of all this and whate ar practical ways it canget started, making use of their data? Yeah, that's a great question. Socompanies so often come to us and say hey. We want to do this, this machinelearning this artificial intelligence thing and what they mean by that is. Wewant to take e the hordes of data that we have and find insights, Tha, that ahuman being or a spreadsheet can't do where the correlations between weatherpatterns and how people buy certain products or if they've bought oneproduct. How likely are they to buy another or whereis there likely to be acustomer satisfaction issue, and those are great. It does require those sortof more advanced extended analytics that machine learning those heavyalgorithms that are looking for correlations and patterns. It requiresa lot of data and it requires a high tolerance for trial and error. You'vegot to have a test set of data. You've got to have a training set of data, andyou've got to be able to apply that and see where these these correlations.That is good stuff. But it's not the low hanging fruit, so manufactors whenthey're thinking about data, rather than going into that stratos phere ofyou know sort of science fiction. You know brushing up against the border ofscience fiction, type, artificial...

...intelligence. We find that the vastmajority- I would say ninety plus percent, really don't have a good gripon just what's happening as of today and how does that relate to where we'reheaded and what our goals are in our mission for our company and are we ontrack? And if not, what are the factors that are getting us off track? Is itour marketing spend? Is it something to do with our supply chain or whateverthe case is, and so what we encourage companies to do is let's take care ofthis really easy, lowhanging fruit, let's give you good instrumentation, sothat you can, from a command center from a single scream, see what'shappening across all the aspects of your operations and be able to see thatcoordinate and identify by exception. Here's where I need to focus my effort,get your operations tight and then democratize that so everyone is playingfrom the same playbook and has that shared mission then, once you've gotthat tightened up, then it's good to look at the the more speculativeadvanced analytics. I mean there's some opportunity there, but I think that's.That's one way that companies can make sense of it is leave some of thatreally science fiction stuff on the table for now and get back to theblocking and tackling of getting a feedback on performance on a dailybasis. There was a two thousand, a nineteen Harvard Harvord BusinessReview. New Vantage Article hasurveyed, a wide variety of executives andenterprise organizations about their adoption of data, and I'm Arida couplekey stats from that survey. One of them was that fifty two percent admitthey're not competing on data and analytics and then sixty nine percentreport that theyhave not created a data driven organization and one of theconclusions I think from the survey seem to be that companies are spendingmoney on and prioritizing data, but their adoption has been lack lustre.Why do you think more companies aren't...

...taking advantage of becoming datadriven and what the can they do to overcome? It? Yeah! That's a greatquestion there. It's the number one issue that we see it's: What you'reseeing more of business articles about data referring to how do we get thisorganizational change? How do we get this adoption and it's it's become oursingular focus rather than technical experts which we are and have to have,but rather than hired guns, where someone says here's the reports, weneed make us a data warehouse. We want to be data driven. If we take thatorder and just start building stuff, it tends to have marginal value. So whatyou have to look at is how do we begin to shift our organization towards beingdata driven? What's difficult about that as habit and convention andprioritizing the urgent and the short term over the important and the longterm? There's also this sort of specter of the legacy of the datawarehouse thatenterprises have deployed over the past decades. That cost seven figures andsounds like a you know: only for the really big players and complicated andrisky there's also this idea of sort of the waterfall approach, which is a termin development. That means we're going to build the whole thing and thendeploy it as opposed to the agile approach where you go after smaller targets and over time, build abigger mechanism to drive that data, and it's that lack of understanding ofhow to convert to a data driven culture that I think holds companies back. Sowhat we focus on is helping companies again to identify that first area.First of all, look at the whole thing. What are the areas of operation thatare critical to us to meet our goals in the next one, three and five years, andthen let's focus on where the biggest the most acute pain is. That has thebiggest opportunity to...

...introduce performance feedback in theform of DASHBOARDS and data analytics. That is not a heavy lift. It's notgoing to require a million dollar datawarehouse. It's going to requirethirty or forty housand dollar engagement to whether you're doinginternally or hiring someone to get a hold of the data. First Cordinary,let's say imventory and you're. Looking at freeing up shelf face and gettingrid of slow moving, imventory and freeing up cash. Where can we get thebiggest bang for the buck and seed this thing and have it be? If that's thelast thing we ever do with business intelligence, it will continue to havevalue long term. It's not it's not intertwined with with a bigg biggermechanism that it won't work on its own, so and Hes Hav, standalone value, andso many companies miss that first step. Just get a win. Get winds early andoften make hem simple, make hem small, make him good, and then you can be offand running, and so I think those are some of the challenges the company'sface that you have to go in wide eyed. When you're saying hey, we need to takebetter advantage of our data, be careful of the pitfalls, that'ssomething we help with, but something our book speaks to and a lot ofindustry walks out. There will teach you about. As you begin to look in thedata great well, John. Is there anything else, you'd like to add tothis conversation to kind of put a bow on it that maybe we have at touched on yeah? I would just say this that forour organization as large as I is thirty, eight people NOG your typical midmarket manufacturers far as scalebut we've seen it here. Then we've seen it with so many companies. We work withwhen you start to put into people's hands those tools that give themvisibility. It is like breathing oxygen again. It's like you've been you've hada governor on your on your ability to really move through some of the keyinitiatives and key goals that you want to get to, and the beauty of harnessingyour data and putting it inashboard...

...form that's easy to consume andrelevant to the person consuming it. What's so nice about that is it's anautomated way to engage everybody around the highest priority, thehighest value creation initiatives and get everyone in a shared mission. It'smuch more difficult to motivate to have companywide meetings to say, remember,here's our priority, and this is what we need to focus on an and thenthroughout the organization having every manager get on that samecompanyline and be able to preach that so that people just get it into theirheads through repetition. You don't have to go through that heavy heavyleft and ongoing burden if you'll just put in front of each person what theyneed to see to know how they can succeed at their work and contribute tothe bigger success of the company. When you do that great things start tohappen as far as culture and as far as employee satisfaction an as far aspulling out people's greatest potential. So I encourage companies to take asmall step, a very small step, not to start a huge new initiative, but let'snail one small area and see what that does and and that's where you get thatsort of eyebrows raise lightball goes on and and companies tend to freak outand say: Oh my gosh, it's like we invented fire. What have we been? Youknow we should have done this a while ago, and I know that sounds a littleselfserving and it certainly on miopic, because this is what we do, but we'veseen it over and over and it's pretty phenomenal right way to wrap it up.John Great Conversation today really appreciate you coming on the show.Thank you Joe. Can you tell listeners where they can connect with you onlineand learn more about h what you and your company blue margin are doing?Yeah you bet, so they can just go to blue margincom. When we get inquiry from someone we start out. Justin the consulting mode and will do a discovery around what is it you'retrying to achieve? What have you tried...

...so far? What's worked, what hasn'twhere's your biggest opportunity to get impact for the lowest investment upfront and if it looks like there's a place to help, then well put together aproposed scope of work and they can consider that for their own internaldeployment or using someone like us if they want to but very light touchconsulted of approach because we find that works best. So if they go to thesite, they can see me on there. It has my contact in foor. They can fill inone of our forms, we'd love to chat with them and offer any help answer anyquestions that it doesn't have to be a customer oriented thing we're happy tohelp great well. I encourage our listeners to take John up on that offer.Visit Blue Margincom. Well, I'd like to say thank you once again to our sponsorcadinus part solutions for helpand make this episode possible and John ThanksTaton for taking the time to come on the show today. Yeah. Thank you joetake care. His is for the rest of you. I hope to catch you on the next episodeof the Manufacturing Executive. You've been listening to themanufacturing executive podcast to ensure that you never missed an episodesubscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player. If you'd like to learnmore about industrial marketing and sale strategy, you'll find an everexpanding collection of articles, videos guides and tools, specificallyfor B to B manufacturers at grilla. Seventy SIXCOM LASHWARN. Thank you somuch for listening until next time.

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