The Manufacturing Executive
The Manufacturing Executive

Episode · 11 months ago

Creating an Award-winning Culture w/ Jon Franko

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

The workplace is experiencing a massive transformation.

I thought we should start at a high level and talk about that.

So we did.

In this episode of the podcast, I spoke with Jon Franko (I just call him "Franko"), my co-founder here at Gorilla76, about how to grow a great team rooted in relationships.

Franko and I discussed:

  1. What employees value most in an employer right now
  2. A little thing we do called “Retention Brainstorming” and how it can help you
  3. How to use Glassdoor to your advantage

To ensure that you never miss an episode of The Manufacturing Show, subscribe on Apple Podcasts, or Spotify, or here.

I think those core values areultimately what have gotten us to have this culture. When people ask me like,what's the elevator pitch on your culture, I always struggle with this.Like I'm, like I don't know, it's a good place to work, but I think at atthe end of it all, it can't be manufactured and it's got to be.ORGANTIC welcome to the manufacturing executivepodcast, where we explore the strategies and experiences that aredriving. Midsize manufacturers. florward here you'll discover newinsights from passionate manufacturing leaders who have compelling stories toshare about their successes and struggles and youill learn from btobsales and marketing experts about how to apply actionable businessdevelopment strategies inside your business. Let's get into the show, welcome to another episode of theManufacturing Executive podcast. This show is being brought to you by oursponsor cadinus part solutions. I'm Joe Sullivan, your Houst in a cofounder ofthe Industrial Marketing Agency Gerrilla. Seventy six. What comes toyour mind when you think of culture inside of your organization? Do youthink about the work environment itself? The way people interact with each other?Maybe the perks of working at your company and how much can you, as the leader ofthe organization, shape that culture today my guest is someone who spends amajority of his time with this exact topic. He also happens to be somebody,I know pretty darn well, John Frankos, the other half of Gerilla, seventy sixownership and my business partner of fourteen plus years. In addition to Coleading the company John's Day, teday duties are focused on growing anddeveloping a great team rooted in great relationships and creating an awardwinning culture. John's mission is to create the best workplace in St LouisJohn, was named to the twanty ten snt Los Business journals, thirty underthirty class and was named as one of snt Louis's top young entrepreneurs byit. Small business monthly he's a graduate of the Focus Saint Louisemerging leader's programm and as a member of the forty second class ofFocus, Sat Louis Leadership, Saint Louis John's, a passionate MissouriTiger and loves to spend his time in the outdoors hunting fishing biking andrunning in July of two thousand and nineteen. He ran across the state ofOhio. A hundred seventy four miles in six days, I can confirm that this isactually real and actually happened to raise money and awareness. For the MSrun. The US John is served as a board member for launch snt Louis, the COfounder, the Friends of Clifton Park, cofounder Brightside, snt, LouisVolunteers, a big brothers, big sisters, beastern Missouri, serving as a bigbrother John, currently sits on the board of trustees, and is he vicechairman for the Gateway Area, chapter of the National Ultiboal SclorosisSociety he's active with bikems governance and community engagementcommunities in Earl to thousand and twenty he wasawarded the Community Awareness Award from the chapter for his fundraisingand mentoring efforts, John'sa graduate of the University of Missouri at Schoolof Journalism. John Welcome to the show- hey it's good to be here. Thanks forthe soways, it's nice to hear, it makes me feel important hearing thatdescription of myself very ow awesome. You Are Huh, maybe I'll just play that on repeat andI'll listen to it over and over again, you go when you're having a bad day. Ilike it. So. First of all, I think I've calledyou by your first name, maybe five times in my whole life and I'll-probably do that I'll, probably double my count in the next thirty minutes,but for our listeners John Pretty much goes by Franko to people. He knows hislast name and wouldn't be surprised if your own mom calls you Franko at thispoint. Well, she's Couh me some other things, but yes, I've been cauht. I'vebeen called a variety of things. Frank Franko is a is very much a good thingto be called a as and John. Yes, I could count on one hand the number oftimes you've called me, John, so all right, well yeah this. This could be alittle awkward. Then I guess Huh yeah, we'll sae, get through it well beforewe get into it. It should be stated...

...here that you know you and I run amarketing agency and marketing agencies are notorious or having crazyworkplaces with Pingpung tables and cegurators and dogs and Skateboards,and all that good stuff and, generally speaking, agencies tend to support a avery progressive culture. I terms of how people work and interact with eachother. This podcast, of course, isn't for marketing people like us. It's formanufacturing people like e ones we serve now. That's said. I think some ofthe out of the box ideas around culture and recruiting and retention that we'veput into play and that you've largely led if this company would be reallyvaluable or is going to be really valuale for our listeners to hearbecause the reality I think, especially in a year like two thousand and Twentisat the workplace, is changing right. It's expectations from employees,future employers it's changing to, and so I think we should start at a highlevel and talk about that and you kno. I guess my first question is: What areyou seeing in terms of what employees and potential employees value the mostabout an employer right now, yeah and backing up? Just for a second, I meanwhen I think about the companies we are working with. I do see a lot ofinnovation in some of them as well in some of the ways that they approachtheir workplace, culture and and like manufacturing company is obviously alot more complex than we are whenever they have there's a wide variety oftypes of workers who have an environment like that, so it probablytakes even more creativity but yeah. I think talking about some of the thingswe're doing could be really valuable and to start out like what people arelooking for. That was your question right, yeah yeah! What do you see inpeople like wh? What do they value the most about an employer right now,especially like during this crazy covid era? Yeah, it's worklife balance. Imean that is the thing I continue to see it is. It is being able to leave work at work most of the time.That's not always possible right. We know that, but most of the time we'work at work and be able to have home at home, and that's really tough right,because I think for a long time, the the literal threshold of a door thatyou have when you wouldn't like for me when I would walk into my apartment.I'd be like I'm home now like in Joe you- and I do a pretty good job of this.I think of not working like crazy people right now, yeah. My my hours arecrazy. Your ou your hours can be crazy, often, but we've done a pretty good jobof being able to shut it off, and I think it's tougher now, because of alot of people are working in the same place. They're living like I literallywhen I'm in my apartment, I'm working from the same place where I watch TV,my couch, so it's being able to turn that off is a challenge but againworklife balance is something especially this year that I thinkpeople are really wanting. Yeah pay is great. Benefits are great. Those thingsall tie into the overall package, but but at the end of the day you know I've talked about it. If thoseping pong tables are only in that office, because you want people tostick around till ten or eleven or yeah you order pizza and every night andthat's fun and there's a video game, there's an xbox system and whatever,but if the main reason is just because people are being able to go home. Well,then it's not that's, not sustainable. It's going tocome back to bigt you, that's that's my opinion and my personal experience sofar, yeah yeah makes sense. I think you know this is good lead into the topicof benefits. We've tried to do some things here. Initiatives you've largelyled to try to push the envelope on the benefits front. A little. Could youtouch on maybe a few of those out of the box ideas that we've tried to putin play. Yeah I mean I there's a few things I mean. First of all, all of ourbenefits, especially more lately, have come from ideas, feedback things, I'm learningfrom the company. We had a brainstorm. Last year I called at a retention,brain Snorman, and not that benefits are the only thing that leads toretension there's a million other things, but it's a big part of it, andI heard ideas- and I heard things come out of that- that I would have nevernever thought of. I, for instance, I...

...didn't realize how I mean I know healthinsurance is isn't is important without health insurance I would be Uppar Creekwithout without a pedal right, but in my personal life, so I know it'simportant, but I didn't realize how important US paying taking on more andmore of that cost was to ou employees. I don't have kids, so I don't thinkabout the dependence in the cost there. So that was something that came out ofthat brainstorm. That was, that was very eye opening we had. You know wehad a score. We use some software, I'm sure we'll talk about this later, butsome software that helps in kind of measure engagement and we were seeingthat our our wellness scores were low, so people weren't feeling super healthyin work, and that was a combination of stress, anxiety, literal, like accessto healthy foods in the office, like maybe replacing the soda with some somesparkling waters different things there so that w a that was another kind ofidea. The Wellness Committee we have sabatical program. Somebody works here,seven, seven years they get six months, all Peras, that six months six weeksall and then they get a fivethousanddollar bonus to put towardsthat that that time off and hopefully they'll take a trip. So you know Ithink, in our early days we our benefits were tshirt jeans and dogs and Ping Fongtables and lots of beer in the fridge and again whell. We don't have the bigPong table mainly because we ran out of room and it was just turning into athing to set things on like Most Ping. Pung tables do, but I think we'vestarted to look a lot more. At the benefits that that really actuallymatter and at their top of that- and it's not a literal benefit but butdoing what we can to respect people's time outside of work because you got tobe able to go home, you got to be able to reharge. You can't be working,nonstop, yeah, yeah, all good stuff. I had a few others sort of written downto we hit on real quick, but you know few other things that we do, that youknow other th, you could you know people listening here could think.What's your version of this a we we've done summer Fridays in the past rightwhere we've will end work early on Fridays, you often have just sameamount of work. It's done. People just become more efficient so that theycaget out early right or or the evolution of that where we said allright, no more se summer Fridays, but we're noticing is the week op to July.Fourth is a wash often our fient part in the office. So what if we tookinstead of letting people out two hours or three hours or four hours early on aFriday during the summer? What if we figured out how much that adds up tobee, which turns out to be roughly a week? And let's just give off the weekof July? Fourth like: Let's, let's give them the holiday off and let's give HemHeri mean the the winter holidays as well as the summer holiday, and let'sgive a weak recharge, YEP Whi. You brought that up yeah exactly how aboutthe five percent raise to quit. Yeah again like something that I don't eventhink about as a benefit. But it is, I mean, and we recently we had an employgreat guy. Very talented, ultimately was realizing. He thought he kind ofwanted to go down. One Path bewith his career, and he was like you know whatI've done this and I can't think hi'm enough for coming to this realizationthat you know what my passion actually Wi is doing. Something else- and hecame to US- had a very honest conversation and we have a policy inplace that the kind of Jo and I came up with a while back that, if you give usfour weeks four weeks to twelve weeks, if you give us any amount of noticewithin that that range, we will immediately UF your pay five percent.Are we trying to encourage people to quit? No, it is five percent reallythat much money at at the end of the day when you, you factor it out overover at most twelve weeks, not a time, but what I think it does do as itcreates. It creates this environment in this space where people feelcomfortable to be like you know what it's not a crime, it's not a sin tofigure out that that this isn't the right job. For me, it's we've talked alot Joewe're crazy to think people are going to retire with us. I hope everysingle person does, but it's crazy to think that, and I think that'ssomething also were learning with the...

...younger younger generation right like,and I think this is something that maybe some of our clients it's foreignto them, but for the most part, these people at least ones, were employingthey're, not starting somewhere and finishing their career anymore, likethat ar that was our parents. Generation is just not happeninganymore, especially in marketing. The way you grow a lot of times is bytaking a new job every two or three years. You get more responsibility, youget new pay you get t. That is how the perception is is how you grow up, sowe're already an environment where people are going to be changing. So,let's just make it as easy as possible. Let's give ourselves time to find thereplacement. That's one of the UGE benefits to us. Let's give that persontime to find to help them and to help them even look for jobs. So anyway,sorry I'e, rambled there but yeah it's been a it's been a really good benefit.So far, not how many times have we had to use it three or four, not that many,but our small sample size. It's worked perfectly every time, but I think youcommunicated the key point there. It's almost less about the five percentraise its softhen more about like creating that environment where peopleare where we can have that to way conversation and figure out. What's inthe best interest, it's never it's a very rarely and the best interest of anemployer when somebody quits and you got to scramble and find a replacementin two weeks, and you had a lot of employees on their end. You know it'shard for them to come to their employer and- and you know an and actually say Idon't know if I'm happy here and because they're afraid they're going toget fired on the spot, and so if, if you coand, create that just verytransparent, two way, dialogue and know that like were let's help each otherlike they'll, help us figure out. You know how to how to replace them whenthat time is right and we can help them. You know in some of these scenariswe've helped that person find a job and figure out a place. wherer there's abetter fit, so I think it's like just sort of breaking down that that thatbarrier there undred person agree like getting rid of that spatm I yet thestigma yep there you go so for my perspective, benefits are in example,something that ownership and management within a company can implement a create,a more appealing workplace. But that's not what defines culture right really,culture culture can't be manufactured, at least from my perspective, anstead.It needs to kind of emerge organically, and the best thing they people like you-and I is leaders of the company can do- is facilitate a work environment wherepeople can grow and thrive like would you agree with that hundred percent? I,when I, because that is something I have thought a lot about over the yearsis like there is this idea and we were guilty of it early on myself,especially of a thinking you can manufacture culture and that came inthe form of Teacheran jeans at work. A dog the beer fridge like hey, there's,skateboards, you know whatever W, I don't think We'e Yeah. I think therehave been some skateboards here actually, but you know that it allcomes down. In my opinion, are you adhering to your cort values in courevalues? Frankly, five years ago I rolled my eyes, I thought it was dumb.I was like whatever this is something somebody says and then they neveractually use it for anything. But when you think about our AURCHU core valuesof results, improvement relationships, excuse me and kindness. Those are fourthings that if we nail all four of those, we are going to have a greatculture, we're going to have happy clients, we're going to have happyemployees. You and I are going to be happy. It's going to be a very goodplace, and so we've tied that into everything from our hiring process to tthe website, but the copy on our website. The interview questions, I ask,I mean there are million ways that we have this baked into our process, thatthese core values lead lead. What we do in those court values. I don't know how,if you remember kind of like when we did when we went through that thatexercise, I always thought it was, and I think this is where I was getting itwrong was I thought it was something you were like all right, but what do wewant to be, and it's a little bit of that, but for us it was more of who are?We are ready and what are these corr principles that we found in thiscompany on and it's result? If we don't...

...deliver results for our clients, theyshould leave. I mean that's the that's our kind of mantra that my professor Steve Coptiurehad that was good. Had Cell stuff right, like they don't win awards, they mightwant an award great, but if the end of the day, if that advertisement you'renot doing and in our world like you know, KEEPDC campaign were doing SEOinitiative whatever at the end of the day, it's not selling more for ourclients. It's a waste of time improvement. You and I were two guysthat, were I mean you've got a bookshelf right behind you. I know youhave a lot more books just to the side. I've got a whole shelf over here mewe're constantly learning and reading, and I think that was baked into who weare and I'm seeing that in our employees now and then you've gotrelationships and kindness, we've always said like we just won't hirejerks we've had jerks and we've had to get rid of, and we've had. We've hadpeople that got close to getting a job offer, but then they came in to aninterview and well never forget. I had one guy put his feet up on the tablelike just complete, complete cockiness and I don't mind a little swagger. Ilike it actually, but not when you're interviewing like come on so yeah. Ithink those core values are ultimately what have gotten us to have thisculture. When people ask me like, what's the elevator pitch on yourculture, I always struggle with this. Like I'm, like I don't know, it's agood place to work, but I think at at the end of it all it can't bemanufactured and it's got to be organtic. Yeah well said. I completelyagree we're going to take a really quickbreak here to help pay the bills. So two thousand and twenty has been aweird year. Industries are facing new challenges as we navigate life withouttrade shows events and INPERSON meetings. Many businesses arebulstering their online tools to offer a better experience. Wil also making upfor some of those missing trade show leads and that's where Kadinus parpsolutions comes in. They help you create a dynamic Sherabl, CAD catalogethat you put on your website. Designers can preview your products from anyangle and download and the format that they prefer by improving the onlineexperience. Engineers and architects get the data they need for their designand you get a fresh lead in your marketing pipe line who needs tradeshows anyway, to learn more visit. Part Solutionscom leads something that we've always tried to do.Here is kind of open the doors n. The windows of our firm to the outsideworld, like we want to create as much tran transparency in our workplace aspossible so that future hires can see what it would actually be like to workhere, and I think one place we've done that pretty well over the years asthrough social media. Can you speak to that a little bit and maybe about it,maybe even offer a tangible idea or two about how a manufacturing organizationcould you know, do their version of that in their world yeah I mean, Ithink, for me it's always whet. I SEE CLANS GAT Social Media Wrong. A lot oftimes is there's a time and place for selling on social media, even even inthe Beatl B world, like yeah, we've always said, like yeah facebooks, aplace where people aren't thinking about work necessarily, but I guaranteeyou, the bast majority of people on Facebook, a'll have jobs somewhere andyou know t their skill. Yeah might be outside of their nine to five thatthey're on on a facebook, her a twitter, but it doesn't mean that they're stillnot they're, still not kicking around business thoughts in the back of theirhead, but anyway, tangible examples I mean like instagram. I think that issuch a great tool, s for us, okay, like knowing our demographics of who we'retypically trying to hire knowing where they spend time instagrams a great wayto show off the culture. Am I are we going to use it to sell a hundred andfiftyusand dollar engagement to manufacturing client? Probably not it'sprobably not going to happen now now. Is it a place where they can be likeokay? Well, I'm really interested in what these guys are. Pitching me. Iwant to go look at kind of what their teams all about or whatever yeah itmight be for that, but really it's a place to show off, like let's celebratecompany anniversaries there, let's celebrate employee birthdays, let's,let's celebrate if we launched a new site that were proud of, let's show avideo kind of walk through of the site...

...when you've got a crew like our crew ofrelatively creative grew. You have all time types of goofy stuff happening inthe office. It's always fun to show, but I think it's it's just using thatthat channel to show what it's like to workiher to what you said earlier:opening the doors and windows. Now this you know we have another client, aconstruction client. Their audience is very much more. The facebook play likethat's where the people who work there, the people in their community, thepeople who they want to show their culture to are on facebook. So I mean it's may notbe instagram for everybody for us, that's who it is, but it might be morelinked in and my I think, that's where you just have to know who your audienceis, but yeah it's just showing off the culture you have and showing peoplewhat it's like to work there. I Guess Yeah I mean we've been inside the doorsof a lot of BTB. You know industrial sector companies where there's actuallya really great culture there and people love working there and they do they dofun things together and people are smiling it. You could tell it's a goodplace to work, but there's literally zero opportunity for somebody to seethat from outside the walls of that building, like people who might bevetting them as you as an employer. You all they've got, is a page on theirwebsite that says careers and there's a paragraph at text and a link to apply.Why would you want to work there right and then you might be a great place towork, but you'd never know it well, and then you will come up in the glass doorand they have four reviews. There e they're five hundred person company.They have four reviews and guess who is writing the reviews on class, for whenyou only have four the people who absolutely hated it right a and thathonestly, it's not really it's not really social media, although you canuse it like social media, you can trafor the opdates etc, but glass dor.If there is one thing that I can, that is so easy in such a low hanging fruitfor people that are listening to Takean initiative on its glass Dore, it's yeahonce you hire somebody three to six months and send them in the email andjust say: Hey, would you consider writing review, don't follow up withthem? Don't hassle them about it? It's totally up to them and you want anhonest review. I'm not saying game the system now, just ask for the review Imean most employees are more than happy to do it if you're doing your job as anemployer, they're happy at what they're doing and they want to talk and peoplego to glass dor. I can't tell you how many people I talk to that say yourglass door, rediews, are the best I've seen and I am like super interested inworking for you yeah. I mean everybody listening right now. Yeah Po PauseRight now, if you're listening, just Google, your company name plus glassdoor and just see what comes up because I would you know you might be cringingas you do it, but l for a lot of you. It's probably going to be. Like Johnsaid, the people who are disgruntled are the ones who like to go out thereand talk about it. The same same way when you buy something on Amazon andit's broken, what it arrives, you're more likely to go there and writesomething about it. Then, if you just are satisfied with it or you reallylike it right and you're never going to shut those people of which is Bin, youryoung, you needid. To be honest, you need D to be Prinen, but if you have,if therethere are forty five people that are really happy well, that needsto be accounted for to and that needs to balance it out, and that will helpthat whenever you get that person that's going to come in and try totorpedo you that's fine, you gol learn from it and you'll respond to it and,like you should always respond o any comments. You get positive negativewhatever, but it won't hurt it's like if you take a test right. If there'sfive questions on the test and you miss three of them, Youre Grade's going tobe pretty bad. But if you have a hundred questions on the test and youmiss three of them, will you got a ninety seven percent? You got an Aplusso right, that's the difference, yeah exactly so so, glass door! Do! Do yousee a you know? What are the? What are the platforms like? Like do you hearpeople talk about indeed or Dod, they do people go look at Google reviews, orI do. I think I think, they're all...

...relevant. I can't speak to it. I can'tspeak to it in an extremely educated level for people who might be listening.I can tell youfor our audience. Google reviews matter and glassstore reviewsmatter. Well, I think a good. A good thing somebody could do is like here'sa step for you right now. You could go survey that yeah ten most recentemployees that you hired and spend five minutes at talking to them interviewingthem very casually about what what process did they go through when theywere looking for a job and where did they go? Look to vet your own company,becausethey'll tell you well, you know I I went I go went to indeed or I wentto glass door. I looked at your googoo reviews. I you know who knows maybethere's other places that I tean, that you don't even realize right, they're,making trade specific foron this that that you need to pay attention to thebest thing you coul do is talk to your people right. I mean figure out whatwhat was it that made them want to consider working here. How did they vetyou? Where did they you know? Did they ask here so yeah? I think in O canithin?It's not always. He does tie directly to new business to because Googlereviews, for instance, like I know whenever we hire a vendor, I'mI'm doing the research I'm seeing like well ose. What's it look like I dotheir people hate working there, because if that's the case, there'sgoing to be a lot of turnover and I'm not going to have the samerepresentative that I worked with, like you know like if our accounting firmwas changing CPAS every three months. Well, whatwe don't want to work withthem right, like yeah er unhappy, so I would be willing to bet that I hundredpercent agree. You should survey the people. I would be willing to bet theglass, Dor and, and Google reviews are ninety percent of the time at the topof that list. Sure I want to jump back to something that you mentioned earlyin this conversation. There's a software that we use called office.vibe where you know really. I guess the point here is: is you and I are bothbig believers- that building a great culture largely stems from listening toour employees, like figuring out what people care about what matters to them?And you know you can't respond o every every suggestion or complaint and makea big change to the organization. Obviously, but you can identifypatterns and then start to identify what things you think make the mostsense to address at a higher level and so talk about that concept, but makesure you hit on on office five, because I think it's a really cool tool thathas been helpful to us in a lot of ways to create that n. The anonymousdialogue, especially so I'll, stop there and let you speak to it yeah. Ithink I think, when I think, a lot about what our roles are like now, Joeit's like, and I'm not saying we're like. I do think we't really good atwhat we do. I know what really good it would be doing, but it's almost kind of,like being like, I always think about Phil Jackson, the coach of the ChicagoBulls like when he wil he's been a coach of radio places and when he waswith the Lakers, whatever that guy at the end of the day, wasn't tellingMichael Jordan how to improve his jumpshut, he wasn't telling Scottypippin how to play better defense. He wasn't telling Kobe like to be more tobe tougher on the floor, shack to box people out right, he was managing. Hewas putting them in a position of success. He was helping the manage thestruggles they were having. He was an ear to listen to so I think what it it all stems from that mentality oflike our management now is listening more than it is telling people what todo. I can't tell Ra our developer: how to develop a website. Ou'd be adisaster. There's no way we wouldn't, it would be bad. I can't tell ourwriters, I went to good journals, Om School, I wrote for a long time. Istill write a little. I can't tell them how to be better writers. What I can dois, I can listen to them. You know struggles hare having maybe internallywith withan issue or a cliant they're struggling with so office. Vibe is asoftware that does help us. Do that, it's it's a permont subscription. It'snot expensive. The data you get from it...

I'd be, I hope they don't listen tothis ID, be willing to pay three or four times what they charge, but itit's. It essentially is an anonymous. It's an a nononymous survey that goesout once a week. It's very simple and you can answer the questions andprobably thirty seconds they've almost created. I always describe it as it'salmost like Gameification, like the interface, is really nice. The UX isnice, so it's actually like kind of fun to do this survey and why it's Nice isbecause it gives you a it, gives you running data a lot of companies or alot of approaches are, let's do our annual employee survey? Well, theyconveniently do it after they've, given bonuses or after they've given raisesso hey everybody's happy scores are great. Well then you go, but how isthat helpful to anybody right? That's like just collecting it's like it's,not real yeah, it's! So that's when office bi doesis! It just gives youdata data every week and it helps you porgive y. It gives you when you zoomout, you can just see long term trends and Itit idndresses. I don't have itopen in front of you right now, but it addresses everything from wellness torelationship with peers relationship with manager like their how they feeltied to the mission of the company. You can kind of see these patterns overtime and it is helped us identify, there's, also kind of a comment box soto speak, er a suggestion box that people can either anonymously or puttheir name behind it, submit anything under the sun to Jo and I,which, which is great because Therere you know there are times where peoplesimpli aren't comfortable, saying, Hey. I am having an issue with this personwore budting heads and they want to keep it anonymous and that's totallyfine but again overtime. It helps you identify trends in Rev identified somethings I don't get into specifics, but where we have noticed there is an issuegoing on here and we need to take correct the bact totally and I love theyeah. You get you identifi these patterns, as opposed to the one offServic. I think that's huge, and then I do love like whenever we it's funny. Ifyou see like somebody, submits one of those anonymous comments, they don'tsay who they are but they're able to. Sometimes I think it's people ventingother times. It's like thereis. There is something really here and we'll getthat N, and you know it's the end of the day when to you know you get inLikeo Doyo a that office. Bibe comment and- and our immediate reaction is like, like that's annoying o people justcomplaining, but then you sit on it for a minute or overnight and you're likeokay, there's something here like we wullet's Git to the bottom of this, andit opens really good conversations between us as owners and managers ofthese people to say like okay. This is like the second or third time. Somebodyhas said something similar to this there's something going on here and wegot to address it and people would have been afraid to say those things,sometimes if it wasn't anonymous. So while I love when people put their nameon it, and we can just go talk to them about it, I think it. I gives peoplethe opportunity when they're not comfortable to that to still like voiceand opinion on it and you have to. Ultimately, I think, that's why, like those corevalues ind, the hiring process are so important like if you have hiredcorrectly a d. You have the right people at your company and in the rightseeds that feedback is valid and as much as Likei'll call you like hettingready, go for a run at four o'clock or whatever, and I'm like I'm heated,because somebody gave me some negative feedback or whatever you nailed it like.There is something there and when I look at our team I know we have reallygood people, and I know we have good people because they have made itthrough this court value vedding process they line up with our idealsand mission and all these things. So I need to listen to at the end of the dayand I think it's a natural thing for a business owner or a manager o whateverto be like. I yeah like that, can't be right or whatever, but then, when youstop and think about it, it's like there's, probably something here and itprobably needs to be listen to and that tool has helped us do that for sure.Well, this last topic I want to hit on here is one that we probably should doa full episode on sometimes soon that's recruiting, and one thing in particularthat we've been doing here for a while,...

...which might be frowned upon by some, but Ithink, as long as you're clear about expectations, it's fine and that's. Weleave our job postings open at all times. You know we stayed on there. Weare currently hiring this for this position or we are not currently hiringfor this, but we're collecting resumes so that when we are hiring, we cancontact you and- and it's helped us build such a great pipeline ofpotential future candidates. So can you speak to sort of the impact thestrategies had on our ability to recruit amizing people, a Crola? I meanagain. We have a few poitseason place that well. The five percent raise, forinstance, were. Hopefully we have more time than little time to replayesomeone, but God forbid somebody comes in and was like. I'm quitting tomorrow,I'm not even giving you two weeks. I'm done I'm tired of this. I'm how to hear we have a pool for any position we have of, depending on the role I mean developersand saying theose they're harder to find account service people copywritersat least people who will apply for those jobs. I don't think everyone whoapplies for a copywriting job can actually copy right. You know, I don'tthink everyone that thinks r applies for an account service. Job Canactually do account service, but from a purely applicant pool will have two hundred two hundred and fiftypeople to start with from day one. Now I try to kind of stay on top of thoseto kind of whittle out, I'm doing a bad job of it right now, but if I'm doingexactly what I'm supposed to be doing every Monday, I'm going in and I'm likeall right who applied for all of our jobs last week, let me look at all theresumes and let me stort them the proper way. Additionally, then, we haveautomated emails that I trar I mean they were written by me and I have tobe the one that says all right: send this email or son Tizi Mil, but theyask for people to connect with me on Le Tin, follow us on Instagram, and thenyou know you can add in those emails all sorts of things, that kind of startto nurture. Just like you would nurture a business lead to kind of nurturepotential candidates. Well, they start folloing you on instagram. Well, ifyou're doing instagram correctly, like we talked about earlier they're, seeingwhat your culture looks like therthey're watching they're, givingyou a thumbs up there and we have there are lots of people that are interestedin working. Here I mean we've got roughly a thousand followers onInstagram, which is by no mean setting the world on fire, but I would say ofthose thousand probably seven hundred and fifty of them are people that wouldlove to work here. One day, THAT'S PRETTY POWERFUL WIF! You ask me:Absolutely it's actually s striking to me. As you know, if you look at ourroles at the company, yours versus mind, like you, are pretty much in the people,business, recruiting retention, building culture like making this agreat place to work, te get sure. People are happy here and growing, andthen I'm a majority of my role is spent doing marketing and sales for Corilla,and it's actually striking how similar the processes kind of are like ourrecruiting process is. This is the equivalent of generating leads and nurturing them andbuilding trust and attention with future customers, you're kind of doingthe same thing right with with future employees and it's a process. It's not. If I operatit as the BusinessDevelopment Igarilla as Oh Jeez, we just lost a customer. I better gofigure out how to win a new customer. I mean it would just be this. You knowthis. This hamster wheel, we're getting nowhere and we're freaking out andscrambling all the time. So we're constantly shurning out content werenurturing. People were delivering content to the right people, we'rebuilding trust in our business, and so our pipeline is always full and it'sreally the exact same thing that we're trying to do with Yapple, and I thinkyou need to think of it that way. Right yeah. I talked about this on anotherpodcast like talke, about it with you, but Jack Walch's winning book. I can'trecommend it enough, but one of the biggest arguments he there makes isthat the HR role needs to be almost lookedat. You know you don't necessarily have tocall somebody a cheap people off chief...

...people officer or whatever, but theyneed to have the buyin from the sea level suite thatyou give the same amount of respect and responsibility that you give your cfoyour coo, your cio. Whatever at that people person, I mean, I honestly, I think it is a coin fot,it's a it's a chicken and chicken eggs on scenario. You can't you can't do thework. If you win, if you don't have the team, you can't have the team. If youdon't win the work, so I mean it's to me. It is a coin fop I think they'refifty fifty equal in terms of importance and responsibility and ifyou're not taking the time if you'R, if you're the person, that's just phoningit in when it comes to to HR, I think you're going to fail and I think you'regoing to have discramwedh employees. I think you're always going to be on thathamster wheel of trying to find people and replace people and and l our business. It's easy for me tosit here and say this we're a twenty person company. We hire maybe three orfour people a year. Some of the clients we work with. Are you know there, athousand people organizations they've, got a lot of intrylobal types ofemployees that what they're just trying to make a a few bucks until they, youknow the pay their way through school, what they work at night shift orwhatever. So it's different, but I still think you need to invest andfocus on being a great place to work and makingyour employees happy. That's pretty much sums it up and that's that's likethat's what you're trying to do right. You want to create a great workenvironment. Whete people want to work there, they want to stay there, theybelieve they can grow and thrive there and advance heir careers right yeahtotally totally. I remember one of the best bits of advice I got from NortyColin at Moosnsylvania. Whenever I was interviewing with him was- and I alwaystry to tell people that, like don't take a job where you're just going tobe put in a corner and you're not going to have an opportunity to grow, and Ithink that is a responsibility of the employees o employer to provide a placewhere people can grow. If you don't, if people don't feel like they're going togrow, that's one of the biggest complaints that will get sometimes isespecially early on. We've gotten a lot better. At this we always told peoplelike just trust us, so we promise you there's a vision, it's hard toarticulate what a career path here looks like, but now people are slowlystarting to see it ithink, but for a long time people were unhappy andleaving because and in their exident review. It would straight up tell me Idon't know what the future looks like. I don't know what my path is. I don'tit all tied back to their personal growth, so if they're at a place wherethey don't feel like they're, going to grow and get better and smarter you'regoing to lose them if they're good, if they're a good eenpoy like you want,they might be somebody who's. Just super happy coming in at nine Leven atfive, whatever not ever worried about a raise. They just want to keep a steadyincome, they might stay, but the ones who are going to help you grow and getbetter they're going to leave you if you're, not if you're, not thinkingabout it for sure, was there anything else. I should asked you but didn'tsomething you want to touch on before we kind of put a bow on this guy. NoI've, probably rambled enough here I I could, I feel like I could talk aboutthe stuff for hours. Oh yeah, we yeah and we do pretty regularly so good.Well, this is a really good conversation. I you know it's part ofour daily world and particularly yours, given the role you play here at ourcompany Gerilla, seventy six, but it's really cool to sit down and organizeour thoughts and actually talk about this publicly. I hope people derivesome value from it. I think they will yeah an and if anybody ever reaches outto you or they want to, I love learning from other HR people. I mean I yea Inoa fraction. I have no background and there's no training, I've kind oflearned it as as I go, but if anybody's listening and they work in this fieldand they have ideas or would want to just spit ball with me, I am I'm anopen book and I would love to to learn myself. So, what's the best way to getin touch with you N, an that note, I'd, say just email me, John Jo n, atGerrilla, like the Animal Gorill, a seven Sixcom and that's pronlof thebest way to get a OO cool, find John...

Linked in an instagram as well. Iimagine right, Yep, awesome and yeah. I guess that that kind of sums it up, soI want to say thank you again to our sponsor cadinus part solutions forhelping make this episode possible and John, as I will call you for the lasttime, hopefully in a while, as opposed to Franko, thanks again for taking thetime to join, to a not thanks, foroutan ee Walsom Yeah, you bet. As for therest of you, I hope to catch you on the next episode of the ManufacturingExecutive. You've been listening to themanufacturing executive podcast to ensure that you never missed an episodesubscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player. If you'd like to learnmore about industrial marketing and sale strategy, you'll find an everexpanding collection of articles, videos guides and tools, specificallyfor B to B manufacturers at grilla. Seventy sixcom Ashand learnn. Thank youso much for listening until next time.

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