The Manufacturing Executive
The Manufacturing Executive

Episode · 1 year ago

Finding the Fit: How the Seller and Buyer Can Work Together so Everyone Wins w/ Ian Altman

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Back in May, I wrote an article entitled Summer Reading 12 lessons from 12 books for 12 weeks. The author of one of those 12 books, Ian Altman, is my guest on this episode of The Manufacturing Executive!

A bestselling author and B2B growth expert, Ian started, sold, and grew his prior companies from zero to over $1 billion in value. He has since spent years researching how executives make decisions. Ian's modern approach has helped many businesses turn marginal growth into explosive growth and thrive where their competitors struggled merely to survive.

Ian and I talk about:

  • Why you should flip your sales message
  • The three questions you need to ask to make an informed decision
  • How to weed out wrong-fit clients
  • How to pivot away from in-person meetings during COVID-19

Resources we talked about:

To ensure that you never miss an episode of The Manufacturing Show, subscribe on Apple Podcasts, or Spotify, or here.

If we know that that's how peoplemake decisions. What problems it solved? Why do we need it? What'slikely ICOME OF RESOLVED? Then what the heck are we doing by leading withhere's what we do as a company. In Years Ow our widget worked.Welcome to the manufacturing executive podcast, where we explore the strategies and experiences thatare driving midsize manufacturers forward. Here you'll discover new insights from passionate manufacturing leaderswho have compelling stories to share about their successes and struggles, and you'll learnfrom be tob sales and marketing experts about how to apply actionable business development strategiesinside your business. Let's get into the show. Welcome to another episode ofthe Manufacturing Executive podcast. I'm Joe Sullivan, your host and a CO founder ofthe Industrial Marketing Agency grilla seventy six so back in May I wrote anarticle titled Summer Reading Twelve Lessons From twelve books for twelve weeks and in thisarticle I pulled standout quotes from twelve of my all time favorite business books.Today I'm pretty darn excited because my guest is the author of one of thosetwelve books. So let me take a moment to introduce best selling author andBB growth expert Ian Altman. Ian Started, sold and grew his prior companies fromzero to over one billion dollars in value. He has since spent yearsresearching how executives make decisions. His modern approach has been instrumental in helping manybusinesses turn marginal growth into explosive growth and to help them thrive where their competitorsstruggled merely survive. In as a CO author of the best seller same sideselling, now in its second edition, you can read hundreds of his articleson Forbes and ink Ian, as a founder of the same side selling academy, rated one of the top five sales development programs globally. And welcome tothe show, Joe. Thanks for having me on and I'm flatter that see. Originally you said, Hey, I...

...wrote this thing about the top twelvebooks on business, and I was expecting you to say and none of thosepeople were available, so I had seen here instead. Now you made thelist and you are. Yeah, it's I can't remember exactly how I stumbledacross the same side selling. I want to say I heard maybe you ona guess, as a guest on a podcast or something years, maybe fiveyears ago or so. But the book was intriguing, I picked it upand immediately it became one of my favorites for a number of reasons which Iwant to get into today. But yeah, and it's, you know, amonga few things I'd love to talk to you about. But first couldyou give our listeners a little bit of background on you, just, youknow, build on the intro. Tell us how you wound up where youare today. Well, the big thing, I mean you talked about my work. I started my first company in one thousand nine hundred and ninety three. We became a fast fifty bany by thousand Nin hundred and ninety eight,some of the fifty fastest winning companies in the Washington DC region. We werealso the only company on the list who was not a government defense contractor,and which was funny because once we had the list, would get all theseinbound prospecting calls from people talking about what we needed for government contracting, wherewe're not a government contractor. No, No, you're number twenty one ofthe list. Yeah, we're we're not. We're not in that space. Andwe built a software company. Then starting in ninety eight in addition tothe core consulting business that we had. And two thousand and five I gotapproached by some investment bankers at New York. We saw the company for cash andstock and I served as Managing Director of the parent company. We grewthe value of the business from a hundred million dollars to actually about two billiondollars and a little over three years and I was flying two hundredzero miles ayear. I wasn't spending time with my wife or my kids and I justthought after a while, why am I still doing this? I didn't havea good answer, so I stopped and people said what are you going todo now? And my first thought was, well, just do the same sortof thing. I'll just build a new company like that again. Andone of my friends said, you know,...

...a bunch of us were talking inanytime our businesses were struggling to grow. You seem more excited about helping usfix something in our business then you were about your own business. Whydon't you do that? And I said do what they said, well,help businesses grow, and I said, well, there's a business for that, and they said, well, you didn't necessarily need that, but mostof us, yeah, we we go to experts in that type of space. And so I started speaking in most is probably two thousand and eight,two thousand and nine, something like that. Started speaking at events and I've beendoing it ever since. And so speaking and coaching and guiding people andhow they grow their businesses with integrity. It's frustrating for me to see thefrustration that people have with sales and marketing, because it doesn't have to be thatmiserable experience. Sure, absolutely. And so what came first? Theorganization, same side selling and your training programmer. The book. So thebook, the Book we release the first version, I think it was intwo thousand and fourteen or two thousand and fifteen. And so definitely the thespeaking. Everything came first. In fact, the first book I wrote was calledupside down selling. That is a really short book that people can readthat give them the gist of it's in essence. How do you take nonsales people and teach them some of the core principles of same side selling?Before same side selling existed? And and then I met Jack quarrels, whospent two decades and purchasing a procurement and Jack actually attended a workshop I wasdelivering on Sales. It was the upside down selling workshop and I thought,wow, this is cool. Jack's coming to kind of see what's going onand see if you can learn something in the reality is that back had foundthat some of the vendors who they were willingly paying much higher fees too thanother vendors. The common thread was they would say, Oh yeah, Iwent through this program with this Guy, e and Altman, and Jack won'tunderstand what they were being taught and when...

...he came to the program he said, well, this is all integrity based. In fact, this makes perfect sense, this isn't dishonest, this is totally honest. And then we gotto know each other and said there are no books written from the perspective ofthe buyer and the seller. We should do this and you know, fortunatelyit's resonated with quite a few people and enough to the point that, youknow, we release a second edition about a year ago and it's been avery successful road and I just think that the title resonates with people. It'slike, oh, that makes sense, like you can understand conceptually. Ah, I getting on in the same side not an opposing sides. Yeah,and I think that's what's so unique about it, having the perspective from procurementof the buyer side and then the sales side, because there's I see itall the time with in my world, in the world of my customers,where you're you know, it's it's like it's this battle in the sale ofbuyer versus seller and there's this race to the bottom on price and everything.Yeah, it's one versus the other, and the whole concept of your book, which I think you chose the perfect name for it, is let's worktogether to figure out if there's a fit, let's come to a common solution thatmakes sense for everybody. So I I just thought it was so uniquein that sense. Thank you. Yeah, it's it's fascinating that almost every bookthat I've ever seen on sales either uses a battle metaphor or a gamemetaphor. Yeah, and if we take the take the second one first,in a game there's a winner and a loser, and in a battle theloser actually dies and then we wonder why there's this adversarial tension. Instead ofwe use the model or the metaphor of a puzzle it says, look,if you're putting a puzzle together, you each have to be able to seeeach other's pieces or you'll never be able to put the puzzle together. Andif you're not trying to put the same puzzle together, then there's just nota good fit. And so it changes the dynamic where it's less about howdo I convince this person that they need to buy from me? They justdon't know it yet. Instead it changes it to look for the right organizationswere a great fit. We're not there.

We're not a great fit for everybody. So I don't yet know if I can help you, but ifyou're facing these sorts of problems, I'm happy to learn more to see ifI can help. Makes it so that you're instantly on the same side.Yeah, I love that. You know, one of the biggest issues that Isee with sales in the manufacturing sector, where the listeners of this show liveand our customers at gorilla, is, you know, they everybody defaults totalking about themselves. It's we do this and we sell that and ourpeople are the best and our competitors are phonies. And you know, it'sall about us, right, and what I love about what you call thesame side pitch is that you kind of flipped the positioning statement or the salesmessage on its head and you lead with the customers issue as wonder if youcould talk about that a little bit. Sure. Well, for starters,that example that you give of people always talking about themselves and here's what wedo and here's the way we approach the world and everyone else is evil,is when companies suffer from what I like to call access displacement disorder, andthat's where the person doing the selling believes that somehow the axis of the earthis shifted and now the world revolves around them, and it doesn't. Infact, if anything, the world revolves around our client. So one ofthe things in researching how executives making approved decisions, one of the things thatwe did is we rant, we run people through an exercise, and I'vedone this exercise with over tenzero executives around the world from companies ranging from,you know, relatively small startups under a million dollars in revenue to multibillion dollarmultinationals, virtually everywhere on the planet except for the continent of Africa, andwe haven't gone anywhere in the Antarctic so outside of that, I got youcovered. And we ask people, well, let's see, some of your teamcomes to you and wants to spend money on this thing and call ita dessert and Blad, it doesn't matter what it's called, and they saywe're going to spend twentyzeros. It takes forty five days for the vendor toimplement it requires no resources whatsoever on our...

...part and they give us a tenyear guarantee. The challenge I give people is one of the five questions youwould have to have answered to be comfortable making an informed decision to either approveor deny that request. And I'll let people work in teams to come upwith their list of five then then narrow it down to their top three.And they ask the same three questions everywhere, no matter the size the company,no matter where they are geographic in the three questions coming down to this. The first one is what problem does this solve? So think about you'regoing to spend money. Well, in a sense, what problems is solved, which is immediately followed by the second question of why do we need it, which is what's the what happens if we don't solve that issue. Mean, what's the problem and then what's the consequence of not solving that problem?And then the third question is what's the likely result or outcome if we makethis investment? Well, so, and, by the way, the distant fourth, and all this is what are the alternatives? And the reason whyit's a distant fourth is that if you answer those first three questions, well, the fourth one becomes implied. So the vendor who you're in total syncwith about what problem they're trying to solve for you and why you need theirhelp, who happens also be the same vendor who delivers the best, mostlikely outcome for you? That's your vendor. That's the one you pick. Soif we know that that's how people make decisions, what problems it solved? Why do we need it? What's the likely thatcome of resolved? Thenwhat the heck are we doing by leading with here's what we do as acompany and here's how our widget works, and it's it's not a line withhow people make decisions. So instead, what do we lead with? Well, our clients come to us when they're facing these types of problems that havethese types of consequences for the right organizations. We deliver this specific type of outcomeand now I need to disarm the notion that I'm just there to sellsomething. So I say, but the way we approach that isn't the rightfit for everybody. I don't you know whether or not we can help you, but if those are issues you're facing, I'm happy to learn more to seewhether or not we might be able to help. And that structure iswhat we call the same side pitch. It's in chapter for the book.If you search, if you Google same...

...side pitch, you can probably findexcerpts of this for free. If you don't want to get the book,it doesn't matter. It's not about it's just more. If people have thebook, they know where to where to find it in the book. Sothe idea is that we the same side pitch fallows this construct of entice,disarm and discover. So first we entice by sharing problems that we solve withdramatic or extraordinary results. We then disarm the notion that we're just there tosell something and then we trigger a discovery phase to learn more about their situationto see whether that we might be able to help. So yeah, it'sa great model a great infrastructure for doing it, and I can see.I love the puzzle piece analogy, because if you, if you can justblatantly say these are the types of companies that were good at helping, youknow, these are the problems that those types of companies typically experience, thisis how we can help solve those problems. But not everybody's the right fit forus all of a sudden, and you you start to weed out companiesthat aren't the right fet I imagine it makes you more efficient in your salesprocess because now you're spending time with companies that actually could be the right customers. Right sure, well, and the idea is this, is that whatpeople used to what they used to be taught? And and, by theway, well, we're going to. We're going to use GSEVENTY six asan example. So on a second, I'm going to ask you, well, what are the problems that your clients would face? So you have asecond to think about it. All right, but what I want you to thinkabout is this, is that if you're if you're leading with what peoplehave often been taught in the past, is, will you ask and openit a question like what keeps you up at night and you might ask somebodywhat keeps you up at night and they say, Oh, my dog lickshimself. All right, well, well, what do you have for that?You have a solution? No, and so then you're fishing, going, oh, well, what else? Well, I got concerns about X, Y Z. Yeah, we don't do that either. And now you'refishing for an opportunity as opposed to if you think about it, my guessis some of your best clients we're facing...

...a problem that they weren't even awareof until you help them realize that it was an issue. And so ifyou say to them what's your biggest problem, they might not even realize it.You know, it's like one of the questions that we'll ask people iswell, so, zero to ten, how well do your sales people perform? And no one ever gives a ten. It's usually like a five. Okay, so you know, how much of that do you tribute to ahow much of that do you attribute to a hiring problem, and how muchwould you attribute to a skills problem? They go it's probably like eighty percentskills. Okay, so what are you doing to invest in those skills?And it's like you know, the head expends, it goes oh right,but but if you ask them, Hey, what's your biggest challenge, they wouldnever say it's the selling skill side. Yea, oftentimes it is. Sogoing back to the same side pitch, if you're okay with it. Yeah, so what will use? You will use your business as exam BireWes. So so what's the biggest challenge that you solve for your clients?So I would say the biggest challenges that they're not getting in front of enoughof the right people from the right companies. And why is that a problem?Because if they're not, if they're not doing that, then they're relyingon their existing customer base or referrals and are often stuck serving customers who arenot profitable and they wind up kind of on this hamster wheel. Yep,okay. So so your your same side pitch might be. Well, manufacturerscome to us when there their message of the amazing prox and services they havearen't getting in front of the right clients and that means that either their infear competitors or winning that business or, at a minimum, the company isforced to just keep trying to harvest the existing clients who you eventually run outof additional things you can sell your existing clients for the right organizations. Theytell us that we deliver marketing solutions that...

...attract those clients, fill the topof their funnel and give them a disproportionate share of mind from those ideal customers. But the way we approach that, it's not the right fit for everycompany. So I don't yet know if I can help your manufacturing company,but if that's some of your facing them, have to learn more to see ifwe might be able to help. And so that's what it sounds like. Is First understanding what are those problems that we solve and then what theconsequence is. Now I just kind of winged it, so it may notbe perfect but it might not suck. Well, you know what, I'mglad we're recording this because now I can just transcribe it and copy and pasteright into our website right now. That's that's right on the money. Imean it's exactly the converts. I can understand the power of having that conversationand and when you've especially when you when you're in a niche and you havea very specific type of customer and you know that customer really well. Well, you've seen all these patterns over time, right, and so it's while youcan't make assumptions about what your prospects need, you've seen these problems beforeand you're able to speak to them. So absolutely, in my business itcomes down to it's the earning attention side. It's people feeling that they're commoditized.So, wow, we've got some of its head and shoulders about thecompetition, but our clients see us as a commodity just like everybody else.Or there's this whole shift of how do we shift the conversation from price tovalue, because everyone wants to beat us up? Those are the types ofthings that I hear time and time again. So that's when people say what doyou do? Well, my clients are usually facing one of these problems. Boom, boom, boom, and that doesn't resonate. It's probably notthe right fit today. Doesn't mean it will never be, but they're probablynot the right point today. There's a line from your book that I have, I've quoted, I've had a picture of your book up there. I'vehad the quote highlighted in a number of number of times. I've been infront of our own clients and hopefully it's sold you some books along the waywithout you realizing it. But the line that I really love, because itjust speaks so well to a lot of...

...things that we preach a guerrilla andtry to teach our clients is this. It says you said the goal ofbeing an educator is not to convince, but to include a prospect in yourperspective or knowledge base so that you build a common, mutual understanding. Yep, and I just love that quote so much because it's everybody in my world, in this manufacturing world, they just default, like we, like Isaid earlier, to talking about themselves and that's all you see in their marketing. It's brochure marketing, it's websites filled with product pages, which you needthat stuff. I'm not saying you don't need it, but what we emphasizeso much is that you have to take these elements of a consultative sale andyou got to bring them down into your marketing process as well, because thefirst touch point that a lot of your future customers will have with you isis the content you published and the things you say, and so I justkind of curious to hear your take on that particular quote in this idea ofbeing an educator. Well, my I always say that the best quotes inthe Book Jack Probably wrote. But the the the idea behind the idea behindthis is that when your client or prospect doesn't decide to do business with you, they decide not to spend money with you, one of two things hashappened. Either they don't believe that the problem that you're talking about solving forthem is that big of a deal, at least not compared to other thingson their plate, or they don't believe in the result or outcome that you'rethat you're allegedly going to deliver, or both. And so when companies talkabout here are features and here are capabilities and all this Whiz Bang stuff,what's the client wondering? What problems to solve? Why do I need it? What's the likely outcome or result? So the idea is that if youbelieve in the issue, the impact of the results and the client doesn't,it doesn't count. Similarly, if they believe in it but you don't,it doesn't count. So it's got to be a mutual understanding. If youboth are on the same page about what problem you're trying to solve. Ifyou're both in the same page about what...

...happens if they don't solve it andyou both have consistent expectations about what the result should be, then there's alevel of trust. If you think about if you're buying from somebody and youhaven't had a meaningful conversation about what the results need to look like, what'sgoing through the customers mind? The client is thinking, yeah, but dothey really understand what we're trying to accomplish? But if you ask the questions upfront about what a success look like and how we going to measure it, then it's just the client saying, yeah, I think they're actually goingto follow through or not, but at least everyone's on the same page aboutwhat it is you're trying to accomplish. You know, one of the oneof the things that I often share, especially with people on the manufacturing side, is so let's say you have two different vendors. One vendor is askingyou about who needs to be involved in actually making a purchase. The othervendor says what could put the results at risk and what are we going tomeasure together to make sure that we get the right results for you. Well, which vendor would you rather deal with? The person who's focused on the sale, of the vendor WHO's focused on the results? Right, obviously,the result side right. And and then I'll say, well, so wouldyou be willing to pay more for the vendor is focused on results? Andpeople almost universally say I'd paid more for that. Okay, how much more? And the most common answer is somewhere between ten and twenty percent more.And then I asked the following question, which is, so, how muchless would you have to pay for it to be a good deal, butyou don't get the results that you need? The answer is it doesn't matter.Like if I don't get the results I need, was a waste oftime and resources, let alone the money. So when companies can learn how topivot, to focus on results instead of focusing on just getting the sale, that's when everything changes. That's when clients routinely pay more for your servicesthan for other people's. There's a whole thing that we don't have time todiscuss today. The talks about differentiation and...

...how do you stand out over thecompetition? Sure, yeah, I love that. Well, in we arerecording this in August of two thousand and twenty. The world is still upsidedown in a lot of ways and it looks like it maybe for a while. One of the biggest struggles that I'm seeing among BDB manufacturers is they're notsure what to do with this big gap that's being left by the absence oftrade shows, and not only trade shows but just being able to get ona plane and fry across the country to see a customer or a prospect.So many of these companies are reliant on that in person interaction, and soI'm curious from you your perspective, what you're seeing with the companies you consultand what you think you know these organizations can be doing in the meantime tofill that void. It's interesting in the in the same site selling academy,we do a monthly coaches corner call on one of the most prevalent topics oflate has been so what do we do when we can't have in person meetings, when we can't rely on network and when we used to get eighty percentour leads to these trade shows that now don't exist? What do we do? And so what we need to do is immediately pivot to think like ourcustomers. Now, the smart companies already worth thinking like their customers, butthey, you know, there's still time to catch up, which is okay. What are the questions that our clients would ask? My friend Marcus Sheridanand his book, they ask you answer. You know Marcus talks. You're inthe marketing world, you and that only know Marcus is love. Love. They ask you answer. Love, and and so the whole idea isthat how do you create content that is meaningful for your clienter prospect and itcome down to marcus talks about his big five of content marketing, five keytopics that move the needle, and one of them is talked about price.One of the US talk about best of and comparisons, rankings and reviews.I think it is. And so the idea is to make it so thatyou're speaking to the problems you solve,...

...not your features and capability. Soif, for example, you did he get, you did a case studythat talked about how you solve this problem for another organization. It used todo when people did case studies, they would write a little bit about whatthe client was doing. Then they would write, you know, three orfour hundred pages about themselves. Now, smart they are as a manufacturer,and then in the end it would say in contact us for more information.And instead what I suggest is you condense things and you say, so,here's a manufacturing company that or you know, whether it's a manufacturer, whether it'sa you know, wherever their incline is. Here's this organization. Theywere having this problem and here's why that problem was so important. Notice,what am I starting with? What problem were they trying to solve? Whydo they need to do it? Then I give you an entire sentence,not a compound sentence, but a sentence that says they came to us forhelp. And then you talk about the result and outcome manded up with,which barely mentions your product or service. So it says when it came tous and they use the certain black a two thousand and twenty. Today they'reable to do this down. They've captured more market share, they've shortened theirtime to market, they've reduced errors, they've, you know, improved efficiency, they've their dogs and cats now peacefully get along together, whatever it is, and that's all great. So somebody reads that and they say, wow, that's really great. It could be a video, could be could betext, doesn't matter. After they've consumed that content, if they they're onlygoing to look at that if they're having that same problem. So now we'realready we're already nearing down our filter to the right people. And then whathappens is they say, wow, yeah, I didn't think about the consequence ofthat. Yeah, but you have the same consequence and wow, Ishould like to have that same outcome. Only the vendor didn't describe the exactsolution. So if you're that customer, what do you do? You eitherpick up the phone or you eail the company and say how did you solvethat? And then it's about training the...

REP who answers that call to notsay, Oh, here's how we solved it, but instead say what wasit about that case that Pique your interest and immediately talk about what's important tothem as a customer, not talking about your stuff. Perfect love it.So case studies, you know, but focused on the problem and the outcome. So case it's basically it's just taking all of your marketing mindset and shiftingit to a focus on what problems do we solve? What's the information thatpeople are wondering about. And guess what? If it's if there's if there's acertain problem, you might say, here are three ways to solve thisproblem. And guess what? You might start by saying, look, oftentimespeople come to us to solve this problem and that's something that we do.But in the event that you can't afford to do it the way that wedo it, here are two or three alternatives that could work for you.And because the person who's going to go through all the headaches to do itthe hard way, they're going to do that anyhow. Sure, sure,but other people going to look and say, all those three ways look like alot of work. We're not doing that. Let's just call these guyshmm and, and then you're narrowing your field. So if you just putout a whole bunch of marketing height that says here's how cool we are,no one's going to care. Right. If, instead you say, okay, how do we attract the right interest by speaking to the problems that thesepeople are facing day and day out, then you're onto something we created inthe in the same side selling academy, I created a course called growth andcrisis that we give people, people can access for free as go to thewebsite and your same site, selling Academycom, and you can click and and getthat course for free. Yeah, one of the first things I talkedabout is that in this type of crisis, bromit, your goal first and foremostis to be helpful, and so I thought I'd be kind of cynicalif I then charge for the course. So sure, we just we justmade it available for free. But it's the whole idea of how can youhelp other people and talk about the problems...

...that they're facing and how to solvethem and the right people will come back and do business with you. It'sokay, yeah, makes sense. But and so with you know, withwith in person of as trade shows out the door. So creating content that'sactually helpful. How do you get it out there? From your perspective,are you an inbound guy and outbound guide? You like both, use a littleboth. So if you already have a good list, then you're sharinginformation and you're constantly seeking feedback. Here's this piece of content we shared.What else would you like to hear? I use linkedin live and so atthe end of every linkedin live I'll post them and says, what are thetopics would you like to hear about? And then you know, because theideas. I'm just trying to serve that audience. Yeah, and you know, what are the questions do you have? You know, hey, play stumpthe guesser, like tell me, you know, ask a question thatyou don't think we can answer that. Oh, like, here's a reallyhard one, because if you're the person they're coming to for a lot ofanswers, then you're probably also the person I'm going to come now. Ifyou basically solicit questions for things that have nothing to with your business, that'sgoing to be harder. But it can be related to it, like Ithink I think Marcus talks about I think it's Columbia sports or one of those. can be out of where. I think as a whole. APP Theyproduced on knots. I'm like, how to tie knots those so well thatthey don't sell rope. It's like you're missing the point. Their audience ispeople who are on boats and that, camping in this and that who wouldlike an APP on how do I tie this type and out of that typeof not. So they're serving their audience. So it's relevant. But if theywere, you know, if they were posting something about, you know, doing suvied cooking, their audience wouldn't care because not a boat, they'reprobably not firing up the SUV, of course. Yeah, it's all aboutunderstanding the customer and being a restource resource to them. Sure love it.Well, even this has been a fantastic conversation. It's been an honor havingthe opportunity to talk to the coauthor of...

...one of my absolute favorite business books. Can you tell can you tell us the best place where listeners to findyou online, where you'd send them and where they could pick up a copyof same site selling? Absolutely so. You can pick up the same sideselling just about anywhere books are sold. Amazon tims to be the one ofthe most popular places now, but you can also get it at the inthe bookstores as well, my you know. So if you go to Ian Altmancomyou'll get me or same side selling. Academy gets everything on the Academy sideand people can always reach out with any questions, because sometimes people willread the book or hear something and the post a question and it's amazing becauseill using a questions it's a well, I'm sure Ian doesn't actually read these. And then, like, I get the email and I respond and say, what do you think? I don't read these, like Oh, youread them. I'm like, well, I said it to me. Ifyou send it to you sent it to info, maybe I'll read it,maybe I won't. If you send it to me, I'm probably going toread it. Yeah, that's great, perfect. Well, Ian, thanksto toime for taking the time out of your week to do this. Ireally appreciate it. You Bet you. Thanks for all the great questions.Awesome is. For the rest of you, I hope to catch you on thenext episode of the Manufacturing Executive. You've been listening to the manufacturing executivepodcast. To ensure that you never miss an episode, subscribe to the showin your favorite podcast player. If you'd like to learn more about industrial marketingand sales strategy, you'll find an ever expanding collection of articles, videos,guides and tools specifically for bedb manufacturers at Gorilla Seventy sixcom learn thank you somuch for listening. Until next time,.

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