The Manufacturing Executive
The Manufacturing Executive

Episode · 5 months ago

Working On the Business, Not In the Business, w/ Paul van Metre

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

A lot of companies are started by people who are experts in their craft, but are not great at building companies.

But how do you learn to let go of the day-to-day? How do you, as a founder, learn to focus on developing repeatable and scalable business processes in order to grow and scale your business successfully?

On this episode of the Manufacturing Executive, I sit down with Paul Van Metre. Paul is the Co-Founder of ProShop ERP, and our conversation on this episode centered all around:

  • Why focusing on repeatable and scalable processes is the ONLY thing that’s going to grow your business
  • Why you should be working ON the business, not IN the business
  • The process of evolving from a machine shop into a software business

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And ultimately, your role should reallybe to completely replace everything you do so you're, no longer working in thebusiness at all and you're, strictly working on the business doing strategicstuff doing the stuff. You love the most doing the stuff, that's going toadd the most value to your company building those processes. You know andhiring a great team that will help you execute, and you know, elevate yourcompany to the next level. Welcome to the manufacturing executivepodcast, where we explore the strategies and experiences that aredriving mid sized manufacturers forward here. You'll discover new insights frompassionate manufacturing leaders who have compelling stories to share abouttheir successes and struggles and you'll learn from B to be sales andmarketing experts about how to apply actionable business developmentstrategies inside your business. Let's get into the show, welcome to another episode of theManufacturing Executive Podcast, I'm Joe Sullivan your host and a Co founderof the Industrial Marketing Agency guerilla, seventy six, okaymanufacturing leaders. I want you to raise your hand if you're the type thathas struggled somewhere along the way, with relinquishing control handing offthe job to your team and trusting it's Goin to get done and done well and yes,even without your hands in it. I'm talking about empowering your team towork in the business, so you can spend your time working on the business nowit could be wrong, but I'm guessing most hands are up right now and it'sunderstandable. Our companies were born out of our vision and raised under ourguidance, but they can't grow up and thrive if we don't give them a chanceto do so without our constant supervision. I've got a fantasticconversation ahead for you today, with an entrepreneur in the manufacturing,er p space that has been in this position before and now helps others toget out of it. So let's do this. Paul...

...van meter has spent his life pursuingand following his passions in the precision machining industry afterseventeen years as a CO founder and president of a machine shop, pro can cPaul Co founded pro shop, er P, a software company that develops industryfour point o leading web based in paperless ERP software for small andmedium manufacturing companies in the metal working industry. Paul has apassion for SME for the SME community connecting with and helping companiesgrow, Prosper and provide opportunities and employment in their communities asa shop owner for seventeen years, and now a software provider to smee's Paulhas deep roots in the machining community and a unique perspectivebased on his experience in the manufacturing supply chain. PaulWelcome to the show Joe Thank you for having me. It's I'm excited lookingforward to it. Thank you, yeah. I feel in the same way, I think Idiscovered yon linked in because you're, which is how I discover a lot of peoplethese days frankly kind of just imbedding myself in the manufacturingspace and naturally you know you stumble across people who are there andactive and have a perspective on things, and I really liked you know some of theinsights. I saw you posting and thought all right. We got to get Paul here onthe show to talk about his experience and have, since sort of you know,learned about some of your passions. I'm excited to get into thisconversation with you yeah. Thank you me too, all right! So Paul. You havegot a Classic Entrepreneurial Story and I'd love for you to kick things offhere by just telling our listeners how pro shop our P came to be yeah.Absolutely so it I'll go back a little ways you mentioned, I think in Intro,about I used to own a machine shop. So I started a machine shop straight outof college, with some buddies that I went to college with. I did not everplan to be an entrepreneur. I thought I would work at a big car companyactually in design and build cars. When I was a kid I you know, studiedengineering and and thought that was my path but fell in love with machiningand manufacturing. As we built a lot of...

...our projects in school, we actuallydesigned the built race cars for the Formula Sae competition, which is anentree for a lot of people in to manufacturing, and we just loved it somuch. We decided that we wanted to start a company together. So one of mypartners owned a house with enough equitatus to take out a second mortgageand that money was enough to rend a space by a hazbol manual, Millon, latheand start looking for business. So that's what we did at the like: RipleAge of twenty, three or so right out of college and and so that company, youknow, grew over the years eventually up to about seventy five people and thirtyplus machines. And during the time that we grew that company we couldn't findany software that we thought was worth buying to run our company with. Believeme, we looked, and so we eventually just started building something out ofneed for ourselves and that eventually turned into pro shop and we didn't planon selling it to anyone else, but our biggest customer and then ultimatelyother companies started approaching us and asking us if we would sell oursoftware to them, not just our machine parts and so in two thousand and sortof sixteen. We sold the machine shop and then launch pro shop in twothousand and sixteen. So here we are now that's awesome good for you guys.It's it's been fun. It's been a fun ride for sure yeah I bet well, it's gotto be. It's got to just be a really good feeling. To I mean you had aproblem in your business, something that you, you realized a gap right andin this need that that you had and you figured out the solution you made itfor yourself and then all of a sudden realize okay. Well, I guess everybodyelse needs this too. I mean it's, I feel like it's. How a lot of the bestproducts and services are born right, sure, yeah, often out of need forsomething on an internal team, and then they realize there's commercial valuethere so yeah. That was us, but we again never planned it. That way. Ifyou'd ask me, you know when we were running our shop, if you'd won one daybe a software company. I always said this: that's just crazy talk, yeah!It's interesting! How things play out very cool well, probably along the wayhere Paul is, is where you developed...

...this passion, but you were talking tome recently about the idea of creating scalable business processes and whythat's so important, so I'd love to hear from your perspective, to hear youtalk about that a little bit yeah. So a lot of shops are started by people thatare technicians, right, they're experts in something maybe they're. You knowthey're a journeyman level machinist, maybe they're a programmer or both butthey're good at what their technical job is, and then they just open up acompany and they start getting business in and they just kind of roll rightinto all right. This guy sending us a job, let's get it on the shop and makeit and they grow to a point where their lack of business processes become amajor hindrance to growth. Right. I think a lot of companies just don'tthink nearly enough about business process, they're just kind of wingingit the whole time you know, and that can work when you're small and it'sprobably highly efficient when you're small, but as you start to grow, youknow things slip through the cracks. You forget to order this thing or youthought this person this other person in your company was supposed to do that,but they don't really realize that's their job, and so they don't do that,and things start to fall apart and just become frustrating and difficult, and alot of shops spent a lot of time. Fighting fires right. I was eventalking to a customer bars recently and he said his shop used to be like apirate ship. It was just you know: people run around doing stuff, but themore you think about developing repeatable and scalable businessprocesses and focusing on those and the result of those is a profitablebusiness that is real key to scaling and growing a business yeah. For sure Iagree with everything you said there. You know something that my businesspartner, John and I have faced many times over our fifteen years of growingthis business, which is grown from two to twenty people. At this point, we'restill small company, but you know when you're two people, you literally doingeverything when you're twenty people you're able to start to. Finally, youknow specialize and remove things from...

...your plate, but it's really tough tolet go of the rains when this thing's your baby and when you know that youcan do it right because you've done it right and now all of a sudden you'vegot a sort of link, relinquished control and trust other people to getthings done. I mean I still face it. You know fifteen years in it's still,it's still a challenging thing to do so, but you know I guess my question, foryou is a follow up hers. How can leaders of manufacturing organizationsput themselves in a position to work more on the business and the left go of?You know the working in the business right. I appreciate it's a greatquestion and in actually it's perfect because I read a book. My partners, Iread this book pretty early on in our machine shop called the emit. I don'tknow if you've read that one by Michael Gerber, but it is a really easy, readsort of told like a story and they had the concept. Is that kind of, like Ialluded to and the last question? Companies are often started by peoplethat are experts in their craft, but they're not necessarily great atbuilding companies, and so they just get deeply embedded they're, alwaysworking. You know in the company right there, their machining parts orprogramming their taking orders they're doing things and they don't spend asmuch time working on the company and so the way that the sort of the process oftaking thinking more about business process to tie it back to the lastquestion as well, is that if you kind of analyze what you do on a daily basis,you can probably break it out into multiple different buckets of sort ofjob duties right when you're, a small business, your you're, the salespersonyou're, the janitor you're, the order, entary person, your customer service,you're the machinist right, but as you as you grow, and you cannot longer doall those things. If you look and say all right well, when I'm doing sales,this is the things that I do to do: Sales right when I'm, when I'm being aprogrammer. I'm doing these things when I am doing, I you know, accounts,receivable and payable when I'm being...

...the bookkeeper. I'm doing these otherthings and if you document what you're actually doing in each of those roles,you know think about it. Like switching hats, right, you have your sales personhat. You got your machinist hat as you task switch during the day. Think aboutexactly what you're doing write it down and define that as a process and themore you define that and make it clear. So someone else can read that look atit. Maybe you make little videos about it that allows you to them start hiringpeople into those roles and replacing yourself as the salesperson, replacingyourself as the estimator as the janitor as the accountant, and,ultimately, your role should really be to completely replace everything you doso you're, no longer working in the business at all and you're, strictlyworking on the business, doing strategic stuff doing the stuff. Youlove the most doing the stuff, that's going to add the most value to yourcompany building those processes. You know and hiring a great team that willhelp you execute, and you know elevate your company to the next to that nextlevel. That's a really good recommendation. I really like the theway you described actually writing down that list. What are all the things youdo, and I can remember doing that myself, probably about ten years ago,where it was like all right I mean we were you know a very small company atthe time and and just writing all these things down and being like God this.This is the one that needs to go first and then it's got you. It's got to bebookkeeping right like I, I should not be keeping the books at my company asthe owner of the company like. Let's throw that to our account and like,let's you know, and then we just sort of chipping away one at a time. But ifyou prioritize those things and say where am I really most needed? Where amI creating the most value and you keep those things for longer untileventually you can, you know, give up control of them, but I think it's areally good exercise for somebody to go through yeah and one of the mainpremises of that book. That really, I think, just jelled, for me in a visualway, is the idea is that you are designing your company as if it were aprototype of a franchise business right.

So you only have one factory one shop,one whatever it is that you are, but imagine that you decided to open asecond location. You know a hundred miles away or a thousand miles awayright. If you aren't there on a daily basis to actually do all the work. Howwould someone even know what to do to replicate and provide the same servicethat you do in your facility to you know to someone from somewhere else? Soif you think about it like a franchise like a McDonald right whenever you goto any MacDonald's, the experience you're going to have more or less isgoing to be the same same Burgers, same fries, same processes, and you knowthat that repeatable, consistent product and or service that you'redelivering to your customer is a result of business processes without havingthose clearly defined for the people you're hiring to replace you in thoseroles, you're not going to have that consistency. So that was part of thebook. I you know, I would definitely recommend anyone that has not read theEmeth to go out and buy it. It's an easy read but yeah, just the concept ofa franchise prototype of a business, even if you only have one location thatmakes a ton of sense to me and then the other thing that's been on my mindrecently. Is that there's a whole lot of shop owners that are in the baby,boomer generation that are getting pretty close or even past sort oftypical retirement age and a lot of them are going to be faced with that,the idea of Welt? What am I going to do with my business next right? Am I goingto sell it to my kids? If I don't have any kids that are interested in it?Maybe it's a key employees, or maybe to you, know some third party and now alltogether and I think, there's a unfortunately there's a lot of shopsout there that are going to be in for kind of a rude surprise about howlittle their companies are actually worth, because the Cole company isstill wrapped up around them and what they are doing without the scalableprocesses. Right that, let's say...

...talking about a third party buyer, youknow a strategic by er, another shop or or an equity firm, or something evenlike that. If you can demonstrate that you have these good repeatableprocesses and the business is not just you know, reliant on you exclusively toget everything done and every every time a question comes up. Someone comesto you and says: What should I do here right if they know that that's morevaluable and when you know for a lot of shops out there that have been throughor companies that have been through things like like an ISO audit is oninthousand or as one hundred on it when you go through the due diligence ofselling a company, it's like an audit times ten like on steroids. They aregoing to dig through every single thing in your company to make sure they'replaying the right price and they will, if they discover that you just are amess of you, know, running around and scraps of paper and spread sheets andthis and that and without really goodsolid processes, that other peopleare running, that business just doesn't have a lot of value. Besides the actualassets, yeah you hit on a lot of really good stuff there. You know the otherthing I think happens when you become really good at documenting. The way youdo things are having very clear well laid out. Processes is the satisfaction inside of your companyamong employees, and your teammates starts to rise too, because becauseI've seen this in my company over the years, I don't think it matters whatkind of business you run when people don't understand who's responsible forwhat who reports to who you know when something when a certain thing happens,like you know whose job is it to deal with this or how do one person executesthis process this way? And this way it creates a lot of, I mean just confusionwhich leads to people who just aren't content in their roles, yeah and thenthat trickles down to retention issues and just morale issues in the company.So there's just there are so many side...

...effects of having being able to removeyourself from the business and and being able to lay those processes out. It justtouches so many parts of your organization, yeah, absolutely and whenwe were growing and bumping up across these pain points ourselves. Weactually mean we were fortunate enough that we had hired a software developerto build some. You know some software for us and we were like you know whatthis is like. You know, probably having some things fall through the crack, soI thought you were supposed to do that now. I thought you were supposed to dothat, and so we just like we started building we're like: Let's build a jobsort of a job, description, job position, module and let's build an orgchart and let's build modules for all of our daily tasks in our businessprocesses and ultimately, those fed really well into our like I so and asintone hundred, because those are requirements to have that kind of stuffin there. But the way that we did it was just it really helped us grow and-and we had very, very low turnover and our you know really. High employeeattention, high custom high employ satisfaction, and I think you're rightand I hadn't really thought about it quite that way, but it was largelyprobably because everyone knew exactly what they're supposed to be doing. Theyknew what good performance look like with all the metrics and the pis we setout, and ultimately, employees want to come to work work with people that arewell aligned with them. Culturally do good work, you know, feel proud of whatthey do and know they're making an impact, and if you can lay out yourbusiness process and structure that way people are going to love. It absolutelywell Paul. Let's talk e Rp a little bit and you run a great ERP softwareplatform, specifically for manufacturing shops, because there wasthere was a need for that. That didn't seem to exist and which is why why youwound up where you are now so I'd love to hear you talk a little bit aboutlike where does he R P fit into this whole? You know process of streamliningor this topic of streaming business...

...processes and skill ability, sure yeah.I just had a conversation yesterday with a gentleman. He owns machine shopin Wisconsin, Pre coid about seventy five people down a little bit now, buthe said he uses thirteen different software products to run the company.You know from things with you know, estimating and sales and and order,entry and cutting tool, management and preventative maintenance and, like justall the different things you know, and I'm sure some of those are justspreadsheet systems. They built her little mini databases or whatever, butwhen an R P system right Erp, of course, is enterprise. Resource Planning, it'sdesigned to help run a company, but what we found when we did our researchfor our shop is that the software products out there and it's a crowdedspace. You don't get me wrong and it's not like. We were reinventing a newcategory, but the software products that we found that were designed forjob shops and manufacturing shops like us. They did some things perfectly wellright, estimating, maybe and quoting order entry creating in voicespurchasing, but they left this huge middle section of where you're kind ofdone with the sort of office side of things and you print off a paper, jobtraveler and it goes out into the factory and then it's kind of a kind ofa black hole. Right now some have data collection stations and you could login and log out of the job and say how many parts you've made. But there's alot of a lot more nuance and detail that happens in a shop out there and,of course, in a manufacturing company. The value is generated on the shopfloor. That's where you're taking raw materials, doing valuate processes andmaking finish goods, and so that's the really the meat potatoes of a company,and you really need to have good business processes. I think tied intosoftware that make it reallyeasy and...

...transparent and reduce. You knowoverhead costs and let people just work on the actual value added part ofmaking ships and making parts and doing things quickly, and the soft wares thatwe looked at just didn't have those things. So we decided again to buildour own and we focus really heavily on that sort of manufacturing executionsort of side of a sight of things as well as quality management. So we builta complete QS system into Proshu as well. So sometimes we actually see andsometimes you'll see it on our website that pro shop is ERP, MES and QS, andit's actually a bunch of other acronymns to you know C, MS and elms,and all sorts of these silly acronym. But basically you know trying to solvelike what that guy in Wisconsin was dealing with with thirteen differentsoftware products and trying to pair it down to you know, ideally one or tworight, and so I think the right Erp in a company can dramatically help improveefficiencies through put improved quality, all tight around businessprocesses, because, ultimately, you know we think of pro shop is reallyit's like an operating system. For a shop you know it is you sort of plugthings in on the front end. Follow the process all the way along and you're,going to get good, profitable parts out at the end. So that's how a little bitI think about Erp as it relates to manufacturing yeah. Now, that's great-and you know it's- you kind of- can see it at both extremes, sometimes whereyou know. I see this in the world of marketing, where there's a millionpieces of software that do a million different things and finding one toolthat does ever absolutely everything. The way it needs to be done is tough,but you can. There are tools out there, like you know hub spot, for example,where, like a lot of the a lot of it, is handled on under one one umbrellaand done really well, we'll still par it with other things here and therewhen it. You know when you need other tools for various things, but I'mthinking of all the stuff we do inside of that piece of software and if we had,if we were running thirteen different pieces of software, like you know yourmanufacturing example yeah, I would it...

...would just be a mess it becomes. Chaosis too hard to manage you. People don't know what to l, to use for what so yeahthe idea behind what what you guys have done is seems pretty great well again,we just because we had no manufacturing or Erp experience before we started ourcompany. Really, we didn't have preconceived notions about what R Psoftware should look like and be included. You know what kind offeatures, so we just went sort of logically through everything that wedid were like. Okay, we need a page for this, a feature for that: a module forthat right and it included. You know for a machine shop and we'vediversified a little bit further out. You know we have faba world shops andother companies, and even some oms that use Proshu, but the core fundamentalprinciple is that they're taking their manufacturing. Typically, you know highcomplexity, really value added products going through complex processes and andeven more sweet spot in a regulated industry like aerospace, defense,medical because, as you, it was, our shop was getting more sophisticated andgetting into these these markets and and had more discerning clients withmore flow downs and needs, and we need to manage quality and our setups andour tools and make sure we always had everything at the right time. Nothingwas missing. You know we just said all right. What let's build a feature forthis. We just realized that we said we went to set up a job when we didn'thave all the tools all right. Well, let's make a module for tools andmaking sure that feeds into purchasing. So you make sure you have them inadvance before you go to do your job and we just because it was sort oforganically built by people that were didn't, have a preconceived notion buthad a daily need. You Know Abdi to get these problems solved. It just turnedinto a really interesting organic product that was just different thananything else out there yeah that's Great D. Are there any examples? Paul,like I notice, you've got some some videos, like testimony study, success,story, type of videos on the pro shop...

...website. Any example. You could givethat would sort of put into context for listeners the transformation that acompany was able to go through like pre and post implementation. Yeah I mean wehave, I think, we're approaching twenty test. Macusi videos out there, there'sa lot of them, but one that I'm particularly just fills my heart withjoy. You know to hear and talk to these clients talk about it. Small father andson kind of run shop, father started it in a s in his basement, son joinedright out of college. You know small machines, job about fifteen twentypeople in Connecticut they were using. Actually they used two of ourcompetitor products in the past. They used one for a couple o years and theyrealize that wasn't going to work. They switched to another one use that onefor several years, but they were really sort of hitting their heads up againstthe ceiling on its capability and realize that they were spending farmore time, making work, arounds and spread sheets to help. You know fillinggaps they didn't have so when they put pro shop in d within justa few months time and really for the call it sor for the whole year afterputting pro shop in, they increased their revenue about twenty percent.Without any additional equipment- and even one last person in the overheaddepartment, they got rid of purchasing person, they didn't need any more, butthe reason they improve that so much is because they got about twenty percentmore through put on their factory floor right, there were set, ups were goingsmoother, things were just flowing more quickly through the factory. Theydidn't, have machines sitting and waiting idol, waiting for tools orequipment or taps or gauges to show up that they realized they didn't need, orthey didn't have, and so you know they increased their throup by twentypercent. Their profitability went up considerably their on time. Deliveryperformance went up by many many points. You know they said for their mainproduction business, the they were basically hitting a hundred percent ontime right and before that it was just constant fire fighting struggling tohit dates, constantly paying expediting...

...fees to catch up on jobs that were late.In fact, that was a note. It wasn't even a thing that I had even everthought about as like a return on investment, but they are so they werethe first ones. That kind of clue me into this. They used to spend aboutthirty thousand dollars a year on expediting fees for like platingprocesses or outside processes, or expecting material or just paying likeovernight. Shipping charges to bring in you know something that they realizedat the very last minute that they didn't have, so they were spent aboutthirty grand a year and they almost entirely cut that to zero right so thatjust that cost alone was more than pro shop cost them let alone you know atwenty percent increase in revenue and Truppo and profitability, and just howmuch less friction they had how much more they enjoyed their jobs. And youknow, company morale went up just all these incredibly positive things. Youknow coming out of using a system that was better designed for their businessthan what they're using before look on grants. It sounds like one of manysuccess stories. You've got, but it's got. I mean that's just got to be thebest feeling as a as a business owner to hear that you know it's a getvalidation right like like you can, when you see people's businessesliterally changing and which affects their lives, and you know their ownlivelihood, that's just the best feeling, so that's pretty cool. It is,and particularly with machine shops and job shops like that. That are, you know,making things from Ramata metals and materials turning men to finish goods.They are literally at sort of the ground floor foundation of the entireeconomy. Right everything- and I use this example all the time right. Youlook around your space. Everything that you can see was originally startingstarted with machining in some way or form right, whether it's thatmicrophone or the shirt their sweatshirt you're wearing that was madeon a machine. That's made up of lots of machine parts that were made by machineshops, and so not only can we improve...

...the individual businesses and theirlocal economies. You know growing more to hire more more people moremachinists, but that's you know if you do that enough times over thousands ofthousands of shops, that's going to lift up the economy, you know that'sand manufacturing jobs have the highest multiplicative effect of any othertypes of job. Where you know, one manufacturing job creates like three orfour other jobs to support them. You know in service businesses and so yeah.I just we believe it's incredibly important, it's an honor to work withour clients. You know I always used to love, making really beautiful machineparts, and I got a lot of satisfaction out of that, but I get way moresatisfaction out of making meaningful impacts to people's businesses. That'sreally cool! It's fun! I can't imagine doing something more fun than this wellPaul's there anything that I did not ask you today that you'd like to touchon, which is actually one last, maybe one little point as most machine shopsor companies that work in high tech manufacturing. No, it's incredibly hardto find people right that have the technical skills and the ability to dowhat you want to do- and you alluded this earlier about. You know having agood culture and good business process. So people don't have that friction atwork. I see a lot of shops right now, putting out job beds. That say you knowwe have an opening for a machinist come apply, and I can tell you that that'sjust not a winning formula right! There's! There are so many openings forso few people that you really got up your game on recruiting and making yourcompany just an incredible place to work and like a like a bright light inthe night. You know with with attracting people to you that want tojust congregate and be part of your world so think about. If you are in theposition where you're needing people actually think, I even wrote a blockposter out this recently there's a lot. You can do to kind of make sure thatpeople are applying for your jobs rather than the jobs down the street,so think about what, from an outside perspective, what would draw someone toyour company and make it look like a really incredible pace to work? Now,that's a great it's! You know it's...

...funny. I can't seem to escape any ofthese podcast conversations without the manufacturing labor shortage. Coming up,it's just it's everybody's talking about it. It's a very real, real thing,and I totally agree with you, because we talk about this at gorilla being acompany that does marketing for manufacturing companies like it's avery similar thing with recruiting talents like you are trying to getdiscovered, you're trying to earn trust and and the attention of people thatwould be good employees of your company and yet a majority. You go to amajority of the careers pages on manufacturing organizations website andit's like a few paragraphs of text and like a link to an external job board.It's like that's how you're going to recruit people like that's how you thatthat is the impression you want people to have of this being a good place towork. So I totally agree you should be selling your business to employees justas much as you're selling him to customers. Absolutely, if not more so,absolutely agree, especially in a time like this, so well good. I'm glad youthrew that little nugget in there so well Paul tell our audience how theycan get in touch with you and how they can learn more about pro shop. Sure.Well, our website is pro shop. Er Pom. We also have a new website. I don'tknow if you've seen it personally as far as branding and marketing goes,it's called love your erom kind of fun. It's all hot, pink and beautiful lotsof hearts and cheesy stuff all over it, but that's fun to check out, and thenI'm o Cos, I'm on Linkin, just Paul Van Meter van metre, I'm sure you'llinclude it in the show notes and what not but yeah. I hang out and linked ina lot as you, as you said, that's awesome. I'm pulling up love your RPMas you speak right now, I'm going to take a look at that looks, looks like ayeah. Someone told me recently that he said that marketing to machine shopowners using hot pink as a boss move- and I thought that was just a hilariousstatement- to make hey you're going to stand out I'll. Tell you that much so,yes yeah it's fun to put together well Paul! This was really great, reallyappreciate you doing this once again,...

...so I guess we'll put a bowl on it there.So my pleasure to thanks for the time I appreciate it take care. I have a goodday absolutely and as for the rest of you, I hope to catch you on the nextepisode of the Manufacturing Executive. You've been listening to themanufacturing executive podcast to ensure that you never missed an episodesubscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player. If you'd like to learnmore about industrial marketing and sale strategy, you'll find an everexpanding collection of articles, videos guides and tools, specificallyfor B, to B manufacturers at grill. Seventy sixscore. Thank you so much forlistening until next time. I.

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