The Manufacturing Executive
The Manufacturing Executive

Episode · 11 months ago

Getting Clear About Thought Leadership w/ Bill Sherman

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

The term thought leadership has gotten tossed around a lot the last few years. But what exactly does thought leadership mean? Does it simply imply that you write a blog or that you spoke at a local Chamber of Commerce event? Or is thought leadership something more than that? How did you become a thought leader anyway?

On this episode of the podcast, I invited Bill Sherman, COO and thought leadership practice lead at Thought Leadership Leverage. Bill helps clients who want to use thought leadership whether it's to fill a sales pipeline or influence how people think and act.

Bill and I talked about:

  1. The four elements of thought leadership
  2. How thought leadership can impact your organizational and personal brands
  3. Why people struggle with content insecurity 

Sponsored by Cadenas Partsolutions

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An idea is sort it's simple, but itallows you to take the Skale and then that idea is supported through contentdata. Examples stories, customer success, storties those bring the ideato life and they help people understand. What does it matter to me? How will ithelp me the problems I'm trying so welcome to the manufacturing executivepodcast, where we explore the strategies and experiences that aredriving midsize manufacturers forward here. You'll discover new insights frompassionate manufacturing leaers, who have compelling stories to share abouttheir successes and struggles and youill learn from btob sales andmarketing experts about how to apply actionable business developmentstrategies inside your business. Let's get into the show, welcome to another episode of theManufacturing Executive, podcast thes show is being brought to you by oursponsor cadinus part solutions, I'm Josalliv and your host in a cofounderof the Industrial Marketing Agency, Garo, seventy six, so my wife Julieover here's. Quite a few of my work conversations these days, seeing that,like many I've, been working plenty from home in two thousand and twentyand then someone who spent most of her adult life as a classroom teacher, sheloves poking fun at all the business lingo that naturally POPs up in theseconversations Julie did we ever land on a decisionabout who's, taking grace to soccer practice tomorrow, oll thanks forEnquiring Joe. Let me check my agenda and then I'll circle back by EOD andshoot you an email regarding my capacity okay. So maybe I'm guilty of alittle business jargon from time to time, and one of those terms that Juliehas actually made fun of me for on more than one occasion, because, frankly Iuse it often is the term thought leadership. Fault leadership is a term.That's been thrown around more liberally in recent years, but whatexactly does thought leadership mean? Does it simply imply that you createcontent in your industry that you have a blog on your website, or maybe thatyou spoke at a local chamber of comverce event in your town a few yearsago? ors thought leadership, something more than that, and how do you become athought leader anyway? Well Julie and everyone else listening. That's ourtopic today thought leadership and our guest is someone who's built his careeraround that exact topic. So let me take a moment to introduce bill. Shermantill helps people take their ideas to scale through thought leadership. Hesspent twenty years in the field working with world class business, thought,leaders and fortune five hundred organizations, thot leadership helpspeople see around corners as the coo of thought. Leadership. Leverage Billhelps clients who want to use thought leadership, whether to fill a salespipeline or influence how people think and act bill is considered. One of theleading voices in the area of organizational thought leadership, thatis the people who create curate and...

...deploy thought leadership o help theirorganization reach its goals. He hosts the weekly podcast titled LeveragingThought Leadership where he talks shop with people who are doing thoughtleadership work inside their organizations bill. Welcome to the showhi thanks, Jo so bill. We've done a few episodesaround content, marketing and mostly wee focused on the idea of pullinginsights from your experts, brains and turning them into content. But whathave learned from your teachings is that thought. Leadership is about morethan just content. In fact, content is only one of what you call the fourelements of THA leadership. So I'm wondering if you could start bydefining for this audience, what exactly thought leadership isabsolutely so when I think about the leadership, I think about it, from whatyou described is the four elements and they are ideas you need to have a clearidea. Usually it's only a senence or two in length. It's something short andsimple. I sometimes hear people say hey. I've got an idea and they go on and onfor ten or fifteen minutes. That's not an idea. That's a story, possibly ashaggy dog story. Right. An idea is sort, it's simple, but it allows you totake the scal and then that idea is supported through content data.Examples stories, customer success stories, those bring the idea to lifeand they help people understand. What does it matter to me? How will it helpme the problems I'm trying to sof and then offerin? How are you packagingthis idea? How are you making it accessible to others, and that could bea podcast? It could be caddrawings, it could be a Webenar or workhop paid or unpaid. Itdoesn't matter, sometimes money changes, hands for an offering and sometimesyou're, giving an offering o prevolitiovship away for free andthey'll last and brought up the most important in be to be marketing hisplatform, and I'm not talking about software technology. What I'm talkingabout is imagine two people are sitting down at a coffee shop and one of themknows you or your organization, and the other one has a problem that they'retrying to sell and your organization would be a perfect it, but they have to first recognize thepainpoint of the person that they're listening to and then be able todescribe in a very short way why your organizations ideas solve their problem.You might think of it like the elevator pitch, except it's focused on Idus.It's what ideas are you bringing to the table and where I find a lot oforganizations trip themselves up, is they don't have a platform or they'renot clear on what their ideas one yeah? I see the same thing for surewell and you wrote a a great little...

...ebook titled The four elements ofthought leadership. You kind of just touched on some of those, but that'ssomething I would encourage people to take a look at well make sure to linkto that in the show notes. What kind of impact can a thoughtleader position in a manufacturing leaders respective industry Nich helpthem accomplish, and can you speak to both the potential impact on thecompany, but also on the personal brand of that individual yeah? So going back to your wife'squestion on what's the difference between salt leadership? Is it just abusiness jargon and buzzward the term's been around for about a hundred yearsand here's one of the ways that I distinguishd it between PersonalBrandon and Sallatorship? persal brand puts you on stage. You might be knownas promt or creative a problem solveor easy to work with etctea right, butyou're, standing on stage in the spotlight for Personal Brindin forthought, leadership, you're, putting the ideas on the stage you're shittingthe spotlight on them and attracting attention. So in terms of what thought leadershipcan achieve. You mentione a little bit in the Entro, but let's unpack a littlebit more thought. Leadership can help. You fill a sales pipe one, and so, ifyou're looking over the next quarter and you're saying how are we generatingleads and opportunities? Thought leadership works a little bitdifferently than content marketing, although there is some overlap: Okay tohelp Phill a sales tipe one. The second thing you can do is use it to sustain a conversation with someonewhen a sales conversation would be awkward or even in appropriate. Okay,so imagine you've got a buyer with a very long sale cycle right and youcan't send your sales team there month after month. Just say: Hey: Are yougoing Ta buy right at some point, vial look and go. Stop bugging me right.You've got nothing to ne to add this conversation. That leadership allowsyou to stay gage, getting them to think about issues, because what thoughtleadership is about is around seeing around corners into the future to seeeither a possible risk or an opportunity right, and then you bringthat information back. So, if you're doing bout leadership you're having anopportunity to continue that, if that conversation, when it's not a salesconversation and then finally influencing how peoplethink it at you may want to help persuade your employees as to what the future will look like and getthem on board. FO The vision, the future or you may be, trying topersuade your industry, vendors suppliers, even your customers andprospects and saying here's what we...

...need to do, because this is right. Thisis the future. Those are three ways. F, tout leadership can be used. That's great, like we know. How do yousee when you see somebody doing it really well like somebody is trulybecoming a thought leader and earning that position. What's the impact that you see, Ou k oWha? What changes for the organization, so let me call out something that isimportant. Thought leader is a title that is generally given, rather thanone you describe yourself, Atso. That's why you'll hear you know a conversationabout thaugt leadership is different than if you stand up and say I am afauleter. You cansound a little noxious if you're saying I'm a foul leaderbreak so in terms of the impact with that, what you see from individuals iswhen you're sharing insights, you attract attention and thought.leaveship today is a two way conversation rather than a one wayconversation, and so one of the things that I think is important is when wetalk about leadership in general. It's often we talk about accountability,wereas leaders accountable to the teams that we leave theyre, trusting us toguide them that same concept, transfers over pretty nicely the thoughtleadership when you're doing it. Well, people look to you and they're lookingfor insights, because people are busy they're, often focused on day to daytactical. They only get a slimver of time to focus on what's next in thefuture, and if you become someone, they trust,that's bringing good insights, then you build a deep relationship whichaccelerates anything that you might want to do with them. One concept you've talked about in yourwork that really struck a cord with me, because I've seen this from people thatI've consulted on the topic of content and thought leadership. Is thisidea of content insecurity which, as I've my understanding from what I readfrom some of your own content? was that we're basically talking about impostersyndrome? What makes me qualified to write thiswhen you know a company that's ten times my size is publishing similarinsights. Can you touch on this concept of content andsecurity and why so manyindividuals, and also just organizations and general struggle withit yeah? So it's something that I see very often both with individuals andorganizations and it's let's break it down so impostorsyndrome is, if is when you feel like you're in theroom and you're like what do I do? I deserve to belong you right. Whyis anyone listening to me and it's sort of like personal brand that it focuseson? You? Is the individual or the...

...person conveying the message? Why wouldanyone listen to me content and security focuses on themessage itself. Is it good enough, and I see a lot of individuals andorganizations with a lot of great ideas to share, but what they do is they hangon to them and they're like okay yeah, it's a good idea, but it's not readyfor prime time. I won't share that with my clients, or I won't speak at theindustry event because they set this incredibly high bar and what I wouldsay with continent security is. It creates a form of paralysis, not thatit's stage fright but you're worried about the idea. Is it ready to share sowhat I actually emphasize is it's better to put ideas out there andinvite feedback and criticism, and you say: Hey here's, what we're seeinghere's? What we're thinking do you agree? Do you disagree? One of thethings tha thout Laorship is really good at is creating opportunities forCo, deep conversations and even market intelligence, and so, if you put it utthere, it's okay to put a copy off and say here's what I've been thinkingabout. Show me where I'm wrong or do you gree or disagree? Let's talk one Om,I missing right. You create an opportunity that you can engage peopleat a much deeper level and thiy can resonate much more powerfully and sothe cure to content and security is just. Do it get out there and acceptthat yeah? You have don't have an n idea at a hundred percent, but seventypercent or sixty percent is often just fun. I love that I mean you know this idea that you're welcoming peopleinto the conversation is so important, because I think, when you think ofthought leadership and being an authoritative voice, I think probably alot of people's heads go to okay. I need this needs to be perfect. It can'tbe there can't be any mistakes in here. There can't be any questions that thisis right. This is just the final word and I think that's probably what causesthe paralysis is, because people know they're going to be judged from themoment they put out an insight, so they better. You know they're thinking ofthemselves. I bet to be really confident that this is exactly rightand- and you know I can- I can stand behind this, but if you just do thesimple thing that you suggested bill, you know tell me where I'm wrong or youknow wha. What are your thoughts on this, because this is what I'm seeingnow you're you're positioning yourself if you're still sharing these reallyimportant smart insights, but Youre you're, inviting people into theconversation you're, creating a dialogue now you're an approachableperson as opposed to somebody who is just positioning themselves as 't knowat all such a better way to do it well and one of the things I think about-and I use a metaphor: a lot about...

...ideas is almost metal and that you windup forginate right and that you've got to hammer it and beat it into the shapethat you want, and so a idea doesn't become that hundredpercent Polish. Just by you sitting there thinking great thoughts or yoursubject matter. Experts they'll take it some distance ut, the way the ideareally gets forge and then, if you want to put an edge on it as well and bereally really sharp esit needs that interaction with other people, so thatother people from different pursepectives look at it and say here'ssomething that I see Howedo you consider, if you don't get thoseperspectives, you're going to always feel the idea isn't perfect becauseyou're only looking at it through Alimited Lens, you want to invite otherpeople to help you really beat it into shape totally. You know it's interesting tohear you talk about this too, because my head goes right away to Linkedin, oris you know some of these online platforms where social media platformsthat give you the opportunity you know Le Flinked in for any given post you'vegot thirteen hundred characters right to be able to say something which is apretty that's a pretty. You got to be pretty concise there like it's enoughto say something, not a high coup, but it's still pretty yeah, exactly and andwhat I love about link Dane because I've really embraced the platform overthe last year or so, and it's where you and I discovered each other. But it gives you that chance to do exactlywhat you're talking about it's just j, to take an insight, something that's inyour brain and put it out there and invite people in the into theconversation and get their reactions like some of the best content that I'vewritten over the last year has been a direct result of something that got a ton of engagement, I'm linked inI'll post, things that I think are going to blow up and they call fallcompletely flat. But I learned from that and then I'll post, something thatmight have just sbeen sort of you know a thought or idea. You know it'susually it's related to industrial marketing strategy. Since that's sortof my expertise but- and you know it gets fifty hundred comments- it gets.You know a bunch of likes. It's just circulating like crazy, and then I knowokay, now, I'm on to something here like this is something people careabout and then I'll go produce, a video about it or some longer written pieceof content on our blog or by email or something. But if I, if I hadn't justyou know it's like Seth Goat and always says shipped it right. Just if I hadn'tjust put that idea out there, I never would have had the opportunity to seepeople react to it and learn, what's actually engaging to them and what'snot so I don't know. If you have any thoughts to ask, I do there's a couplelittl at so and I think linkin his great platform. This othes and I talkedabout aleadership being to a...

...communication. It used to be in the oldday. Stout leadership was you wrote a book or you did a big white paper. Youput it out into the world and people sort of followed to your brillanceright. That's not the case in two thousand and twenty and going Folloit's a two way conversation. So, for example, it is very common that you see a post that you know you lookat, you go hey, that's pretty smart. you start writing a comment, and thatstarts something inside of your head. You get this the germ of an idea andthen somewhere halfway as you're, doing a comment more than well said, orthat's cool or something like that. But you you find yourself writing a couplesentences and then maybe a paragraph and you're like oh I've got an ideahere that turns into a Lincoln Post on your own and then that person looks andgoes hey you built on my idea. It becomes this back and forthconversation and then you can test which ones blow up which ones do peoplelean into and they'll show you their perspectives, sometimes they'reusing different terms of different per needs, and it's great in the commens tosay. Oh, I didn't think of that. How do you see it? And people will share it'sa fantastic way to get market intelligence? We're going to take a thirty secondbreather here for a word from our sponsor cadinus part solutions. Let'sTalk Real, quick about getting specified, are you a componentmanufacturer? Maybe you sell architectural products to parks orlarge facilities. Engineers and architects need models of your productsto test fit in their designs. That's where cadinus comes in to help youcreate a dynamic, sharable, cad catalogue. You put on your website.Designers can preview the product from any angle and download it in the formatthey prefer. They get the data they need for their design, and you get afresh lead to add to your marketing pipeline to get one of your productsturned into an online thred model for free use, the code executive at part,SOLUTIONSCOM executive, a lot of the listeners to the show billare CEOS, presidents or VPS of sales at midsize manufacturing organizations. SoI'm just kind of curious like what are some examples you've seen from itdoesn't have to be in manufacturing, but leaders of small or medium sizecompanies as opposed to big enterprise organizations, who kind of already h sohave sort of a platform given t the company's brand named, but with smallermedium size organizations. Do you have examples of people who havesuccessfully built thought leader platforms in their respective spaces orniches yeah, so I'll start by telling one of my favorite stories, but theleadership and it starts on the big side, but then I'll connected to H,midsize manufacturing from like their audiences right. So I was working withthe sea level executive some twenty...

...years ago had a very big consultantfirm and he said you know it's impossible to go through an airportwithout seeing our advertisements on the wall. As you go down and ASPLATER,he said we advertisein airports around the world and he said we do that. Butat the same time I know who our top one hundred clients on. I could deliver astring of Polo poms to each of our top one hundred clients personally to theCO of each company for fraction less than one percent ofour total Marketan Bucget, and I think the beauty of that is that there's adifference between broadcasting and narrowcasting witout penershippodcasting you're, trying to reach everybody, narrowcasting Youveidentifie target audience, and you say these are the people that matter themost Tum Okad so with thought leadership, one of thethings that I think about from manufacturing Heis, if you know who your top o one hundredhot right and not just the people that you're doing business with this quarteror you think you're going to do business next quarter. You think morebroadly, and you say who are the key relationships that we need to build anurture, maybe they're not going to buy from us today. But I want to deepenthat relationship. Thought leadership is excellent for doing that, and one ofthe things that I've seen done very well- and we often doal with clients,is a strategic account, Playn ruthault leadership, and it gives you a way todeepin relationships with firs with media with industry leaders. When yousit down- and we say who are these people, where do they consume content?Where did they get information already and what are they curious about? Okay,because one of the things in Teut leatership that makes it work? Is Youdon't talk about things that you find interesting? You need to talk aboutthings. Your audience will find interesting and otherwise it's sort ofnursissystem that way right, you're sure it's kind of fun and you enjoydthe topic, but your passion has to overlap with your audiences meads, so thought leadership when you do itright I'll give you an example: manufacturing firm, they're based inEurope. They have longcycled sales right and they used the leadership toequip their sales team and they've trained their sales team. How to use atleadership to nerture conversations so...

...that when the Byr is ready to put outan RFK they're invited to propose that's a great application, I use itmyself. I try to, you, know, teach our clients to do the same. You know Ialways say like think about how many times you've beenon the receiving end, a you know, of a sales conversation and a week after thecall, regardless of whether you were interested or not, you get a salesemail. That's just the classic, Hey just checking in to see where you're atin this, and that's it right. It's just! If there's anything else I can do youknow, let me know here's another product manual or Blah Blah Blah rightstuff about them. Well, how about? If, if you flip the script there and Ou,and you say, or you with every touchpoint, you deliversomething that is insightful. That addresses another common question thatpeople like them have or something you heard on the last sales call Hay. Youtold me this that you were struggling with this and we publish this articleor podcast episode or film. This little video or whatever it is that addressedthat and- and you know ways to get around that issue or ways to solve thatproblem thought this would be helpful to you like well, and I think that'sone of the differences between content marketing, an tha leadership. The waythat I look at content, marketing Y- U You might agree, is it's excellent whenyou're trying to film sales pipe one that is one of its primary things whenyou're trying to fill the pipeline and move someone through the funel right,but it sort of breaks down when you're trying to do over the horizon and keepin a relationship right content, marketing, winds of being padts forvery tactical. How am I moving someone who is curious to deeper in the salesfunnel, so they become a buyer and we start a relationship. thout leadershipis really connection based and your building and deepening relationships,and it requires the DIFFERENC skill set sometimes for sales person. They've gotto be able to look past the next thirty days right and so some organizationshave a team. That's dedicated to figuring out how dod they take theirbest insights and then push them out into the world. Often that sits incontent in in marketing and but it's a different function. thit content,marketing right and so that person has a curationresponsibility. They don't have to be the one person who comes up with greatideas and in fact that's a mistake. What they're doing is they're lookingacross the organization from top of the House toponline and say, and lookingfor good ideas listening to where ideas happen within anywhere in theorganization, and they could be an insight on use, they could be aninsigde on manufacturing. They could be...

...a trend that someone online is seeingbut you're looking saying, that's a good idea: It deserves attention from awider audience that audience could be internal within your company or itcould be with your clients, your vendors, whoever, but their elevatingideas to get attention. You've made a really important point, Ithink, and you Kno, when, when people think of content marketing a lot oftimes, if it's not something they're well versed, and I think they almostequate it with Seo and inbound lead generation and andthat's when content starts to be driven by. You know how many searchers are there for thisthing, or that thing, and it's about you know just getting in front of asmany people as possible and I'm not saying that's not important. It is,however, I'm a big believer that your content needs to be driven by theinsights and expertise that stored in the brains of your team, and you startwith these things that in the ones that your customers care about the most thethings that you're always talking, your best customers and prospects about insales conversations in conversations with customers and you start torecognize patterns and see what things the people you're actually trying toreach care about. And if you have deep expertise in those things, it's amatter of y w getting that stuff out of your brains and figuring out how toarticulate it. Whether it's again through written or video or audio or osome way to deliver that to those individuals, and then you can take thatstuff and start to figure out how to apply it into Seo and league generationright. Exactly exactly and here's the thing I've heard people sometimes saycontent and thought leadership is your best content marketing and I sort ofsit stretch my head and go? No. If you try to make thought leadership worklike content marketing, you list, we lose about sixty seven percent of thereally good things that you can do without leadership. One of the trendsthat I've seen is people sit down in organizations and say: How are wealigning this message? The thought leadership that we want to share so,whether it's the CEO or frontline sales person or a sutic matter of experts,whether they're speaking a trade show or ther writing an article? How do wemake sure that it all sounds like we're coming from one company and then alsoencouraging smart people within the organzation people withinsights toshare to get over their impostors yndrome and content insecurity andhaving someone champion them and say yeah, that's a good idea. It needs tobe heart because I would sav with certainty that many of your listenerswithin your organization now are gooideas that could help you keep inrelationships with key individuals...

...accounts whatever or even help the fillthe sales pipe one but they're not reaching the audiences that they needto reach, often because someone's dismissed it or they're. Saying oh yeah,that's good, but it's not my job to get it to someone right, and so the goodidea is all through the pracxs. I'm sure it's happening all the time insideof companies of everybody, listening Yepsure well so yeah. I imagine a lot of listeners right now are thinking. Okay,Jeez like this. This I makes a lot of sense. I need to be know. I need to bedoing this, but, as you said bill you know, you can't just declare yourself athought leader right like it's right, there's a reason that people are e, youknow they have these insights and and they figure out how t how to you know,get them out there and figure out how to publish them and the right formatand everything, but so for somebody who's listening right now, thinkinglike okay, I want to start moving into this I'd love to be a thought leader,maybe I'm capable of being one, but I have no idea. How do I get on this pathto making that happen like? Where do you recommend? Somebody starts so first place that you have to startis from a place of passion, because, if you're doing thought leadership as a Oh,I've got ta do ith, because it's good for my career good for my business,it's going to fall through those cracks of things that are good to do, but whenyou're busy you'll push them off and thought leadership works on repetition.You have to spend time again and again putting good ideas out there andtalking about them. It's not a one and done so find something you're,passionate about and ready to talk about. A good friend of mine years ago,when blogging came out, set a rule that has held trueh. He said if you're goingto start something, whether it's a podcast or writing a blog or doinginterviews be prepared to do it at least a hundred times right, because,if you're looking to see results on the first of the second piece like postingone post on Lincoln is not a game. Changen right, you've got to beprepared. The show up regularly and do it Lincoln, is a fantastic place. It'srelatively rot low risk. You can put out an idea and it by comments andstart building your network and with Lincoln just don't focus on postingfocus on responding to other people that are talking on the subject thatyou care about right, see what the conversation is: Iven, enjoin, Okayfrom an organizational level. What I would be recommending is look for thepeople who are already here to do this, find someone who's built, an audiencewho has passion within the organization and support the heck out of them rightand make them a case study. I'm...

...thinking the company that has done thisand they had an internal person who was active on linked in they had threythousand followers and they built that person up and then use them as ashareplace to the rest of the sale steam and said, look: here's what thisperson has done and hears what it means to their sales, and then everybody goes.Oh, I get it right, you're not having to pull them. They're. Looking going,Oh you're, showing me a trick that I need to know and people lean in andthey want to learn, that's great well bill. This is a topic. That's a passionof mine too, as it is with you. This idea of thout talk hours yeah. We could-and I wish we could, but for the sake of keeping it to one episode, whichmaybe we could do a follower at some point, which I think would be great,but you know great discussion today. It's really fun when I get to do anepisode on something where you know, I feel like it's it's right in my sweetspot to the things I love and and you're somebody who's literally, youknow built your career on this topic. So thanks for doing this absolutely Joeand my encouragement to everyone out, there is give it a try and you'll seeresults yeah. I think so, but you got to stick with it right, like you said,just a Yeaad, I committant Yep. It's not going to happen overnight for shareso so, where bill can listeners find you online and learn more about you, aswell as your company thought leadership. Leverage podcast tell us a little bitabout how to stay in touch and keep learning so thot leadership. Leverageis the name of the company and that's also the domain name. I do a weeklypodcast with people who are thet leadership. practitions they're in theweeds, doing this for their organization and they've, made acommitment and or the organization has tapped them and said: Hey you're,incharge, salt leaorship, and for many of them theyre accidental into thisrole: Hey wasn't what they plan. They either started marketing or strategypublic policy whatever, and then they got capped to do the leadership, and soit's a growing community of thaut leadership. Practitioners and we talkabout what they're doing their successes and we share winds right.That's the thing with the podcast. It's a great show. Yeah definitely go checkthat out tank. You well they'll thanks again, and I also want to say thank youto our sponsor cadinus part solutions for helping make this episode possible,go check out what bills doing and for the rest of you. I hope to catch you onthe next episode of the Manufacturing Executive. You've been listening to themanufacturing executive podcast to ensure that you never missed an episodesubscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player. If you'd like to learnmore about industrial marketing and...

...sale strategy, you'll find an everexpanding collection of articles. Videos guides and tools specificallyfor B TOB manufacturers at grilla. Seventy Sixcom Ashan warnin thanks youso much for listening until next time.

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