The Manufacturing Executive
The Manufacturing Executive

Episode · 10 months ago

Creating a Well-Designed Sales Playbook w/ Kevin Roach

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

If you have a defined sales process, you're ahead of 50% of the manufacturing companies out there. But without one, you can't measure efficacy or deliver maximum value to your customers. Your organization will suffer.

Why is it so hard for manufacturers to draft a sales playbook? And what's the right solution to this problem?

In today's episode, I discuss creating a sales playbook for manufacturers with Kevin Roach, President at Harpak-ULMA Packaging. He's the first Gorilla 76 client I've ever hosted on the show, and I loved it!

Here's what Kevin and I talked about:

  1. Ways to align your sales process with the buyers' journey
  2. Why OEE and TCO need to be part of the sales conversation
  3. How to overhaul the way you go to market with your sales team

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Without a documented sales process that allare trained on, you can't measure efficacy, you won't deliver maximum value to customers. Your salespeople we less effective and your organization will be less effective.Welcome to the manufacturing executive podcast, where we explore the strategies and experiences thatare driving midsize manufacturers forward. Here you'll discover new insights from passionate manufacturing leaderswho have compelling stories to share about their successes and struggles, and you willlearn from B tob sales and marketing experts about how to apply actionable business developmentstrategies inside your business. Let's get into the show. Welcome to another episodeof the Manufacturing Executive podcast. I'm Joe Sullivan, your host and a COfounder of the Industrial Marketing Agency guerrilla seventy six. So it's really easy sometimesin the business development process to focus on ourselves, especially when we know exactlyhow good our product is or how amazing our customer services and how skilled ourengineers or technical professionals are. And while all of that will work to ouradvantage once a new customer relationship has begun, it can actually work against us inmarketing and sales and that's because our buyers are focused on their issues andtheir problems and there are goals, not our products and all the bells andwhistles that come with them. Your prospects are wherever they are in their ownbuyers journeys, and it's our job to meet them there, to listen,to be their guide. My guest today is a leader in the manufacturing spacethat gets this more than most who have talked to and he's put these conceptsinto practice inside the manufacturing organization that he leads, focusing on things like totalcost of ownership, or TCO, and overall equipment effectiveness, or Oee,to drive sales conversations that are customer centric instead of focusing on his own productsfeatures and benefits. So on that note, let me take a moment to introduceKevin Roach. Kevin Roach is the president and CEO of the automated packagingequipment manufacturer HARPAC Elma. Kevin is a senior level technology executive with proven globalleadership and distinguished performance and operations in sales, as well as financial and general management. He's also experienced in strategic planning, research and development, manufacturing and marketingacross multiple industries. Earlier in his career, Kevin led honeywell intelligrated,a software division of Honeywell focused on warehouse execution software. During his tenure hereinvented the company's approach to sales, market development, product development, quality,professional services and investment strategies. Kevin successfully positioned intelligrated as a global leader inintegrated systems and software solutions for the supply...

...chain and also led to companies breakthroughinitiative for the Connected Distribution Center. Kevin has also served as executive vice presidentand general manager of epic course software, Executive Vice President and general manager ofactive in solutions, president and CEO of Rockwell software and vice president of GEindustrial software. A proponent of lean and six sigma and certified g six SigmaBlack Belt, Kevin is passionate about building company cultures focused on continuous improvement.Kevin, welcome to the show. Hey Joe, great to be here.Thanks for having me. You Bet what, Kevin, quite the professional journy you'vehad up to this point. Is there anything from the Bio I justread that you'd like to elaborate on in terms of what led you to whereyou are today at hard tack Alma Yeah, it's interesting, Joe. I beganmy career actually as an engineer at a company that was the precursors toour back Alma company called tw Cutter, founded by the same family that foundedour pack Alma and like our back Onlma, tw cutter was a company that providedautomated packaging lines, lines that were intended to produce size beeed packaging forthe food, medical and industrial markets. And there I did found a coupleof my own companies, one that led me to Ge because they ultimately acquiredit. Had A lot of fun at Rockwell automation. What a great companythere as well and, as you mentioned, a number of private equity gigs wherewe were positioning companies for growth and ultimately for sale. So I guessyou could say I've come kind of full circle some thirty five years later,here back at home at hardpack alm, are for our next digital transformation andgrowth to help our customers grow. Awesome, but that's that's all great stuff.You're actually, I think the the last four episodes I've done you're thesecond that has been a part of rock well at some point. So it'sthat's a name that you know. Seems to come up and just about everyother conversation I have with the manufacturer for good reason. So it's a greatcompany and, of course, a partner of ours, because the machines weproduce now are very rock wall centric. So we produce machines with nearly ahundred percent rock will controls, components and software, along with our other partner, PTC, who is a type partner with rock wall automation as well.You may have read a couple years ago rock well invested over a billion dollarsinto PTC and and now it's about a ten percent stakeholder and rock well seeEos on the Board of PTC, like Marette. Well, Kevin, youare officially the first client of Gorilla Seventy six that I've interviewed on this show. So we've been working together for a bit now and I hand picked youbecause you guys run a really tight ship at hard pack. Your team isexceptional. I've seen firsthand how well structured and discipline both your marketing and salesteams are, and you and I were talking recently about how how many manufacturingorganizations don't really have a well defined sales playbook. Instead, you get yourleadership teams tending to tell their sales teams here's the product, now go getthem, and I was just wondering if you could talk a little bit aboutwhy this is a problem and that seems to be the approach. It's agreat question and it's still amazes me, Joe, that I'm going to guessthat nearly half the companies out there of...

...various sizes, it's not just thesmall ones, it's mediums and it's large companies, simply don't have a salesprocess and that means that it's going to effectively lessen the efficacy of their salesteam their customers, it's going to impact customer satisfaction and in the end it'sgoing to limit growth and success for the company. If you rely on everysingle salesperson to make it up as they go you're going to get tens orhundreds of variations of what you're trying to achieve a customers which isn't going tofeel good with customers and it's not going to be effective. If you don'thave to find process with metrics that you can't measure, you can't improve thosemetrics. So we're continuous improvement oriented culture. We're always seeking improvement to deliver morevalue to our customers. We follow very rigorous process methods to constantly improvethings. So I would say, simply put, without a documented sales processthat all are trained on, you can't measure efficacy, you won't deliver maximumvalue to customers. Your salespeople we less effective and your organization will be lesseffective. So in the end you must have a good must have good processrigger to scale and grow a business. Let me give you an example.Let's say that you were going to go have heart surgery and you had doctora and doctr be that you could choose from. Dr A has a veryrigorous process and he does it the same way every single time. It's beentested and refined and improved and the outcomes are amazing. Dr B has abit of a rusty scalpel on his utility knife belt and says, let's go, I think I can get this done pretty well. Who you going topick? Somebody that has a refined process with proven outcomes, or something that'sgoing to win it? I think it's talk to at this point in thiscase. Yeah, I think so. That's a pretty funny you bring upthe that example actually, because I actually had open art surgery at the ageof Eight, and so very relevant and I'm hoping my my parents chose DrA. I assume they did. So it seems like they're doing well.So the pig. Yeah, I think exactly. I think so. No, it's a great example, though, and I think you're exactly right,and it's the same way manufacturing organizations need to be thinking. And you know, some of them may not be so. So to Kevin, I was wonderingalong those lines. I know that you that HARPEC ALMA has designed asales process that aligns very intentionally with the buyers journey, and wondering if youcould talk a little bit about the stages of that process to provide some context. Yeah, I'd love to. We've been working on this now for alittle more than two and a half years and I would say we're probably ninetypercent there, so we feel good about the progress. Let me stop bysaying the first thing we did is to interview and understand our customers buying journey. So how do they go about buying things, rather than how do wewant to set? Well, we want to understand how they buy so thatwe could match our selling process to the buying process. So we've developed avery buying scent buyers centric process for selling.

As a mentioned, we interviewed abunch of our customers. We identified what stages they go through as theircontemplating purchases of new capital equipment. I think that's incredibly important for everybody tostart the start with who you're working with and then we develop the stages.So let me talk about the stages. We have five stages and again,we see these as the buyers path that we need to follow and assist andhelp them be successful. And I'll use buying an automobile as an example tokind of relate to what our buyers are going through and the things that happenedduring the different stages. The first stage is recognition. That's when you say, HMM, I may need a new piece of equipment, in this casethe car. My car has been, you know, getting a little RADII, the ACS getting weak, one of the windows is busted. Maybe Ireally get to let this this puppy, go to the graveyard and get anew car. That recognition phase is when you're determining do you have a need, do you have a problem to solve, do you have an opportunity to pursue? Do you have an issue to avoid? So recognition is the firststage. Once you exit the recognition stage, you enter the next stage, whichis, okay, I recognize I need a new car. The nextone is determining needs. So I've recognized I have a need. Now let'sdetermine what those needs are, and I should mention in these first two stagesour selling team isn't selling at all. Their understanding there, probing, theireducating. They're not trying to sell anything. It's too early to be selling.This is about understanding and ultimately being able to guide our customers to theirbest outcome based on our expertise. So determining needs is where you say,okay, do I want a truck or do I want a car? DoI need a four do or two? Do it? Do I care abouta convertible? Do I need a minivan? So determining needs is where you startcollecting the requirements ultimately for the piece of equipment that you want to buy. Once you get through determining need, you enter evaluating options, and thisis pretty natural to us as humans. Right do I need something? Yeah, I do. Okay, what do I want? Well, I havesome choices. When I look at the choices, I then evaluate those options. Well, how much does a tesla cost versus something else, and canI really get that cool electric vehicle? Or, you know, what doI really need? And then I evaluate the options. Once I take alook at all my options, I narrow them down to a couple of keychoices, maybe the two or three taught opportunities that seem to meet my requirements. And once I evaluate those, I start resolving concerns. Resolving concerns beingthe fourth stage. I'm like, all right, I've got a good choicein car a and car be. Which one do I really want? Why? I resolve some concerns. The warranty wasn't quite as good in this one. Is that one? Work with the other guy? Can you extend thewarranty? Then, ultimately, the final stage is selection. So those arethe five stage. It's recognition, determining needs, evaluating options, resolving concernsand then making a selection. And some of them. That's important. Thata lot of companies, if they do have a sales process, don't do, and I highly recommend, is for...

...a prospect or an opportunity to movethrough the pipe from recognition ultimately to selection. We require that the prospect executes anactivity before we move them from stage to stage. So we don't allowour sales people to say, Whoo, I just had a great meeting therein the selection stage, we're going to win the deal. It's like,wait a minute, you haven't gone through all the all the all the tollgates to get there. And so every single stage a customer needs to dosomething to be to be moved to the next stage. And why is thatimportant? Because if you let salespeople do it, they will have misalignment becausethey didn't get confirmation from an activity from the prospect, and you will havesales cycle elongation, which means your cycle times are going to go up andyour win rates are going to go down. Your costs are going to go up. So what's the matter with that higher cost? Well, less winsand longer time to do that. So it's really important that you have aprospect perform an activity before you move them from stage to stage. That hasbeen very effective for us. I think that's really smart and what a greatstructured process. How did you guys get here? How did it how didit along? Did it take to develop a process like this and I'm justkind of curious what kind of pain you went through to arrive where you aretoday with something that's so discipline. Well, it's good question and I wish Icould say invented all the school stuff myself, but I didn't. Wework with a company back in around two thousand and eight when I was activeit, and an epicore. The company called SPC, sales benchmark index,and there's a bunch of sorry, Spi. There's a bunch of companies like thatthat specialized in sales process consulting and we hired them and we hired themfor two years and they worked with our leadership team. They helped us developthe metrics. They actually did ride alongs with our sales people to talk tocustomers to understand the buying journey. So we were quite scientific about it andbecause we didn't have a great sales process, we thought it would be great tobring in people that have done it over and over and over again.So that's where we learned it and developed it and since then I've taken thoselearnings to each company I've been to and tweak them for the market, becauseevery sales process isn't the same. It really depends on the market, thebuyers journey, the equipment be to be versus B Toc, etc. Somethingthat really stands out from everything you just said is how customer centric you arein your sales approach and you take the time to understand what those people careabout, to interview them, to collect insights from their mouths, and Ijust see this step being overlooked. So many assumptions being made in the salesprocess, so much focus on this is what we do and this is whatwe sell, and I think that you've been really smart to start with thecustomer, what they care about, what they're telling you and what their buyersjourney looks like, and build around that. You know, Joe, everybody fallsinto the trap of thinking we know it all. You know, we'vebeen doing our job for so long. We know exactly why we lost thisdeal or exactly why we won that deal,...

...and it's amazing how often we're wrong. We're recently working with another firm called double check that specializes and windlassanalysis, and they're going through each of our product lines and the insights thatwe're getting from customer interviews. What they do, by the way, isthey they call customers and go spend a thirty to forty five minute session interviewingthem about why did you select Harpalcolma or why didn't you select Harpalc Alma?How is their sales process? How is their team? What do you thinkabout their equipment? How about their ease of doing business or their reputation?And it's amazing the things you learn. One of them that's was pretty interestingand should have been obvious is how very important service and support is to people. It was universally the number one thing that came out of nearly every conversationand we kind of take it for granted. We've got a great sales, greatsales team, but an incredible service team spread out throughout the country,team of about sixty people, and we just get used to knowing that they'regood and forget how important it is. And the the learning there and theinsight we have is we need to put that more upfront when we're in theseselling stages, to make sure that we're emphasizing how good we are at that, how important it is to them and how it keeps them up and running. So that was a good learning there were many others, but you alwaysthink you know it all and you almost never do. Yeah, you're righton the money there, and I've seen your double check report. Given thatwe are companies work together and it's exceptional. I would encourage companies to look atwhat double checks doing, because they're the insights a come out of thatare at the absolute exact things that should be fueling your marketing and sales strategy. Yeah, they're a great company like yours. We've teamed with them quiteintimately where we kind of think of your company in their company as part ofour team. You know, we're very transparent with everything, as you know. So it really enhances our ability to do a good job by having peoplelike you and double check and others support us with specialized skills. I appreciatethat. If everybody listening, I gave Kevin a discount on next month's billto say that. So there's one is kid. Well, Kevin, youand I've known each other for a little over a year or so now,and one of the things I've heard you talk about numerous times, or couplethings I've heard you talk about our one oee or overall equipment effectiveness and toTCEO, or total cost of ownership. A good percentage of our audience hereour machine builders or some sort of equipment manufacturer, and these content, theseare concepts that really, in most cases, should be front and center in theirsales conversations with prospects, but I know that's not always the case.So I'm curious if you could talk a little bit about by why both oeand Ticeo really need to be a part of the sales conversation. Absolutely andand like a good sales process. I think this is an area that manymanufacturers excel at, some are okay at it and some totally ignore it.So it's again, it's a mixed bag.

But there are excellent companies that focuson this and all the way to ones that don't even know what oestands for. And, as you said, oh, he is an acronym foroverall equipment effectiveness. It has basically three parts. It has availability,which is the percentage of a schedule time that the machines able to operate.So it's basically uptime. Is the machine able to run? The next isperformance. It's designed to run at four hundred packages a minute. Are yougetting four hundred packages a minute out of the machine or is it a littlebit slower than we promised as when we sold the machine? And that willmake a big difference. So availability, is uptime, performances, speed.The next is quality. is every single package, in this case, becausewe make packaging lines, is every single package perfect? Or do some ofthem have leakers? Or was some of the registrate registrated artwork not perfect?Ultimately those non perfect packages are scrap. The way the math works is it'slike a rolled throughput yield calculation. You take the percentage availability times the percentageof performance, times the percentage of quality and you get a fraction that isa percentage of the perfect number of one hundred percent. Were World Class.o Ee is about eighty five percent and oe at eighty five percent is prettytough to get. The best can get it. And it also depends onhow complicated the line is, because the more elements in a line they allcontribute and it's a serial calculation. So if you have twenty elements, evenif they're all at ninety nine percent, you're going to take a big hiton oee. Let me give you an example in my world of a packagingmachine oi and we do often achieve eighty five percent on lines? Not Always, but often depends on a lot of other things. So let's take thisexample. Why does why do I care about Oee? Well, I justsaw the system to produce some packages at four hundred packages a minute. Thisparticular company is going to run three seven hour shifts to day, six daysa week, fifty weeks a year, so a lot of run time.So total gross production, if they were a hundred percent oee, would bea hundred and fifty one point two million packages. It's a lot of packages, however, because we know no one gets hundredercent oe and eighty five percentis world class. If they got eighty five percent, they would produce anet of a hundred and twenty eight million point five packages. That's really good. Keep in mind. That's world class. If that same system that I justgave you examples of eighty five percent rand only at eighty three, andkeep mind eighty three is darn good too. But if it will only missed thateighty five percent world class by just two percentage points, they would losethree million packages a year. Three million packages a year. This particular companysells the product for about a dollar each and they have a thirty five percentgross margin, which is pretty normal. So two points of oe just costyou three million dollars of revenue and a million dollars a profit. That's whyoe matters. And you could be in...

...a position where, if you're notproducing at the rate you thought you were, even if it isn't eighty five percent, maybe you planned around eighty percent and you're running seventy and I've seenit as low as forty, then you're going to be shorting orders and you'regoing to lose customers because you can't deliver. So there's immense impact if you can'toperate tightly. That makes sense on the Oh yeah, absolutely, andso so if all of a sudden you can start framing your sales conversations aroundthis with a simple mathematical model to paint a picture for somebody, I imagineit's really going to resonate. It really does, and we believe in oeso much we've outfitted all of our machines to monitor and report their oee everyday. So at the end of a shift our machines email a report tous and our customers and it says okay, the Oe for this shift was eightythree percent. And of the reasons that you had downtime, we collectevery single fault and we capture and count the frequency of that fault. Wemeasure the duration of each fault and we accumulate in categories all the faults inthe time that they contributed to downtime. We then sort those in a pratotypefashion and we issue the top ten contribute is to downtime right off the machineevery day. Why is that great? Because it gives you actionable insights.Okay, number one is my number one item that caused me downtime. Itwas a hundred minutes. All Right, I'm going to focus on that.And ultimately we have our text reviewing these reports every day and calling customers andsaying, you know, you're having a lot of these falls. Typically wefind this is the cause. You may want to look at this and wework with them to bring their ow ee up into the right over time.And what happens is once you kill the number one reason, now your workon number two and number three and new reasons emerge. So it's a wayto continuously improve and get your oee up into the right yeah, that's greatstuff. How do you bring that into a sales conversation with a new prospectwho you're not yet working with? Kevin, what we do is we have acouple of models, tools that we built for the sales force so thatthey can show the impact of Oie and we let them model different lines andhas. There's a lot of user inputs that we have a discussion about,so that a lot of people are resistant to giving you all the data.But if you have a model and you can show here's how our equipment works, let's plug in some of your assumptions and actuals with some of your equipmentand let's show you the financial impact on your operation and then they start toloosen up when they see you know how big it can be and how impactfulit can be on their on their PNL. So we build tools, spread cheetsand a light that allow our salespeople to engage in the conversation and afriendly way that they can get some instant results and see if they can takeit to the next step. Let's go back to the second party of question, which was TCO, equally important and really more of an umbrella than evenoe, but a little bit more difficult to measure. So TCO is anacrimen for total cost of ownership. What's my total cost for owning and operatingthis piece of equipment? It's a financial...

...estimate intended to help a buyer understanddirect and indirect costs. Too often buyers just look at acquisition price. Theydon't look at all the other things that matter. So TCO not only considersoee, but it considers other costs like training cost, spear parts cost,service called cost, everything associated with running and producing, in my case packages, everything that is considered. So you can say in five years or everyyear, this is my real cost for this. Now we'll give another example. will go back to the automobile. If you've got a car that is, say, Twentyzero to buy and another one is Thirtyzero, which is thebetter one to buy? You don't have enough information to answer that because youwant to be total cost of ownership thoughtful. So if I probe and learn alittle bit more about these two cars, I find that the car, thisTwentyzero, requires the oil to be changed every thirty minutes. Now that'sa little bit dramatic, and the other car, car B I, canchange the oil once a year. Now all of a sudden I can lookat my total cost and find out that I'm paying five thousand dollars a arein oil changes on car a and only fifty dollars on car B. overa five or ten year period, that car that was fifty percent more expensivefrom an acquisition perspective is fifty percent less expensive to own overall over the timelife of that asset. So we shared this too with our customers. Bythe way, you asked about like how do we bring into a sale cycle? We've built a TCO model that allows us to work with the customer andlook at their operation, and their operations are always different. So they havedifferent pieces of equipment that is feeding our equipment and will have downstream equipment.We we're doing case packing and palletizing, and there's different amounts of labor onthe line. Any time a machine pauses or isn't running, you have whatwe call stranded Labor, so you've got bodies standing around being paid not producing. TCO contemplates that, including contemplating the need to add overtime or extra shiftsto make up for the shortfall of your targeted production output. So TCO iskind of the next level of above Oee, where you zooma and you look atthe whole picture of owning an operating that machine from acquisition to retirement.So, Kevin, for those listening who are thinking to themselves, man,we really need to overhaul the way we're going to market with our sales team, where would you point them in terms of resources for starting to make somechanges? So, if you don't have some folks in house that understand theseconcepts, I would recommend that you get a specialist like we did back aboutten, twelve years ago, to help you through the journey. I cangive you some highlights things that I've learned along this journey. Again, itstarts with understanding your buyers journey, your buyers path. What do they gothrough? What's going to be comfortable for them? You don't want to bemisaligned. Give you an example. Let's say I go on the web andI look at mortgage rates and I'm just...

...kind of curious. Maybe I wantto refinance my house and save a little money. Interest rates it down andI just look at it and then I close my computer. Next Day somedude from rocket mortgage knocks on my door with a package to close on themortgage. I'M gonna go. Who Are you? What are you doing here? I'm not at that stage. I was just poking around. I'm I'min the recognition phase and you're trying to close me. Very uncomfortable. Soyou want to understand the buyers journey. You also want to understand that mostcompanies now have buying teams, not buyers. It used to be back in theday you had one person that you went into, he brought your catalogsin and you talked about equipment and your sold the deal. Today, theaverage buying team, depending on the industry, is five or six people and they'remade up of different departments. Is Engineering operation, sometimes marketing, couldbe finance. So you need to also understand that there is a buying team, not a buying individual, and you need to understand the personas of thosebuying individuals, the individuals on the buying team, because they have different winsthat they're seeking. Some are looking for the sexiest package in the world,others are looking for the lowest cost or the smallest footprint in a factory becausethey don't have a lot of space. So it's really important to identify thedifferent people that are influencing the buying decision. What are the personal wins they arelooking for and how do you address and satisfy those winds? So Ithink it's really important to understand that is a buying team and that they allhave different needs and different wants and you better pay attention to all of them. I mentioned this when you ask me about our sales process, but Ithink the next thing you want to do is, once you identify the biasedjourney and you set your own stages, make sure that you're causing a prospectto make to execute an activity before you move them. Don't let the salesteam just move people through the process because they're feeling good about stuff. Salespeople have rose because of colored glasses, because they have to. They getone knows than yeses every day, so they have to always be optimistic,and that optimism influences the process and distorts it. Frankly, it causes thecycle to Elongate, it causes the wind rates to go down and ultimately forthe sales team to be less successful. Additionally, I'd say make sure youpay attention to any silos in your organization that are causing friction or a lackof harmony, and I'm talking about sales and marketing in this case. Alltoo often the sales and marketing teams are going at the market in different waydays that I coordinated whatsoever. You have to have unify identical positioning, branding, value props and that sort of thing, and you can't be having the team'stargeting different accounts and with different tools and different messages. It just confuseseveryone. You know, in the end it's the two sides of the samecoin. To get that together, they need to be linked and synchronized,and we do that, and we didn't always do it. We have oursales and marketing teams meet all the time...

...and we have common goals and strategies. That's another thing that I would suggest there was a if there was areshare button, I could be pushing on everything you just said. I'd be, you know, hammering it home, because I think everybody, everybody outthere who's leading manufacturing organizations, needs to hear this. These are the thingswe talk about all the time and the things that I see broken ninety percentof the time with companies like you guys, and I'd love seeing that you've you'vethought the stuff through you've figured it out, you've put processes in placeand you're reaping the benefits of that. So very cool, Kevin. Isthere anything I didn't ask you that you'd like to add to the conversation today? There is, Joe, especially for the audience here. We build equipmentand equipment of alls over time and get smarter and better and more efficient.I think it's important for companies like US and some of the folks out inyour audience is to make sure they have a really cohesive strategy. I thinkit's important to set a five or ten year goal of where you going,and we did that our cells and we identified a four stage strategy that wethought would really excite our customers to know where they're going. Keep in mindcapital equipment last anywhere between ten and twenty years, so the machines that you'regetting from us today are going to be around for a long, long time. Our strategy is to is what we call smart, connected machines and itis an evolution where our machines will get better every day. An example I'lluse here, coincidentally enough, is going to be another car example. Idon't know I'm on the car examples today, but dumb, unconnected machines is whatcars used to be. You would buy a car and it never gotbetter. It never got better gas mileage over time. It didn't have betterbreaking didn't have better safety, didn't have new features. You bought it,you used it, it died, you threw it away. Tesla came outwith smart, connected vehicles where every day that passes there's an opportunity for softwarepush that's going to improve its safety, it's range, it's feature set,that sort of thing, and that's our approach with our machines. So we'rebuilding smart, connected machines that are going to evolve even after you buy them. They're going to continue to get better. Then this is where the strategy comesin, because they're buying machines our last ten of twenty years. Ibelieve a strategy that shows them how this machine is going to be better infive years and ten years than it was when they bought it is very compelling. Our four stage strategy starts with, first of all, replatforming our machineswith rock will automation, controls and software, and we've completed that. Next,we have augmented reality for training and for Diagnostics. Many of our customersin the food industry especially have thirty, forty, fifty percent and polley turnover, so they're always training new people. Augmented reality with the use of ipadsor hollow lenses and other things is a game changer in human productivity outcomes,safety and asset management. So we see thirty to fifty percent productivity gains byusing are for training and diagnostics, and...

...we're in three pilots right now.From there we're looking at collecting masses amount amounts of data or data lakes sothat we can apply machine learning and AI and then ultimately we're able to tiethe machine control system into the AAR so we can float information in the yeararound the machine, tell them them what the seal temperature is or, ifthere's a problem, how to fix it, guiding them physically through the machine andD so I think setting a compelling vision is nothing but helpful to enhancingthe sales team's ability to tell the story and have it be compelling to knowthat my competitive machine is ten years is going to be as dumb and whenas you bought it yesterday. Mine is going to be ten years of allat that point. So that's the other part of our story I want toshare. That's great, I love it. Kevin, this was an awesome conversation. So much to be learned from what you shared today. So reallyappreciate you doing this. It's my pleasure, very happy to do so. Joe, we're where can our audience get in touch with you? How's thebest way for them to learn more about HARTPAC Almah as well? Yeah,so please visit our website, which is hard pack almadcom, or contact usat email info at Hartpack almadcom or give us a call. Five waight hundredand eight four hundred and twenty five hundred. That sounds great. And, Kevin, I imagine people can find you on Linkedin and connect their for sure. Great. Well, great conversation and you know, I'm just really gladthat that we got to do this. I think some of the topics wetouched on today are things that manufacturers are thinking about and some of them maybe embracing it, but you know, others, I know aren't because Italked to a lot of manufacturing people. So a lot of good nuggets hereand Kevin, once again, thanks for joining me. My pleasure. Joke. As for the rest of you, I hope to catch you on thenext episode of the Manufacturing Executive you've been listening to the manufacturing executive podcast.To ensure that you never miss an episode, subscribe to the show in your favoritepodcast player. If you'd like to learn more about industrial marketing and salesstrategy, you'll find an ever expanding collection of articles, videos, guides andtools specifically for be tob manufacturers at gorilla seventy sixcom learn thank you so muchfor listening. Until next time,.

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