The Manufacturing Executive
The Manufacturing Executive

Episode · 9 months ago

Industry 4.0 is now Industry 4.5 w/ Justin Goldston


Artificial intelligence...machine transformation. All buzzwords marking the transition from Industry 4.0 to Industry 4.5.  

In this episode of the podcast, I talk with someone who's right in the middle of it all.

Justin Goldston, PhD is a professor of project and supply chain management at Penn State University. He works closely with the Penn State Sustainability Institute to blend technology into organizational sustainability efforts.


Justin and I discussed:

  1. What we mean by Industry 4.5
  2. How new technology will impact the workforce in manufacturing
  3. Should we worry about new tech or embrace it?

...Where to go to learn more

To ensure that you never miss an episode of The Manufacturing Show, subscribe on Apple Podcasts, or Spotify, or here.

Once we have had the industry wideadoption of artificial intelligence and machine learning which we're seeing nowand if you don't adopt that solution, you're going to get left behind, in myopinion, welcome to the manufacturing executivepodcast, where we explore the strategies and experiences that aredriving midsize manufacturers. FLORAD here you'll discover new insights frompassionate manufacturing leagers, who have compelling stories to share abouttheir successes and struggles and youill learn from btob sales andmarketing experts about how to apply actionable business developmentstrategies inside your business. Let's get into the show artificial intelligence, machinelearning, blockchain, digital transformation, industry, four point Ou-or maybe I should say industry four point: Five, so many buzzwords so muchemerging technology and for many so much overwhelm today. I'm talking withsomeone who's right in the middle of it all Justin Goldston PhD is a professorof project and supply chain management at pennstate university, where he worksclosely with the Penn State Sustainability Institute to BlendTechnology into organizational sustainability efforts. Dr Goldson hasover twenty years of experience, working with organizations worldwide onbusiness performance, improvement, organizational change and enterprise,wide digital transformation initiatives, he's the author of multiple perreviewed journal Articles on supply, chain management and emergingtechnologies, of critical success factors in ERP implementations and is afivetime TEDEX Speaker, Dr Goldston, has led and assisted in the developmentof Suppli, Jane Management, sustainability and business analyticsprograms at Georgetown University, Texas, Anm University, the IUBHUniversity of Applied Sciences in Germany and North Carolina. Wesleancollege he's also an executive on the...

International Standards Board at theInternational Supply Chain Education Alliance and has evaluated doctoralprograms for the Department of Higher Education, while serving on themanagement advisory board at various higher education institutions. Justinwelcome to the show. Thank thanks for having me Joe Wel. You've got quite theresume there. I must say so. Before we get into it, I was hoping you couldtell our listeners a little bit about your journey and how you wound upinside this world of supply chain management. So I would say that a lotof people- I may be a exception where a lot of people within the supply,chainge discipline sayd to they didn't- have any formal education within supplysham management. I was a computer science major, my first, my firstsemester at NOCONA aant. I was on a baseball scholarship and I've told hisstory before and the second semaage that we had. We would travel out of Ftown, so we had mentor computer labs on Wednesday. So I went to the ent to theDane of the program and said we we tral for baseball on Wednesdays. I can't Ihave these computer labs. He said well make a choice between baseball orcomputer science. I said you're not paying for my scholarship, so I'm outso one of my teammates was in the supply chain program. I go Klina antiand we would get additional scholarship money. I'm no talk, abourt baseballscholarship, so as a Brok College student, absolutely so as as I began inthe actual course content focks on supply chain management. You know Isaid this stuff sounds familiar. You know because, because my father was aplant manager, so I used to I used to work at Workin. A factory countinmentory things like that. You know so I get it so I could dig it o. So Icontinue I continue on and the rest is history from a supply team managementperspective went on to be a management consultant, primarily working withmanufacturing distributors and then went to the pen State University to getmy maches in supply chain and I've been...

...loving every minute of it. Since then,it's great well for those who are listening here, we're recording thisduring the final weeks of two thousand and twenty, and it's been quite theyear for all of us and the God no kidding ready to se just kind of charge forwardinto the new year. Not that the you know December to January is W it's moresymbolic than anything, but right, we're gright going in the rightdirection, hopefully right so, but for someone working at smack in the middleof supply chain management. I imagine you've seen some disruptions this yearthat you probably couldn't have seen common necessarily or maybe you couldhave if you're some kind of profit, but you know it's been a wild year on thatfront too. I know from working with you know so many manufacturers, and so I'mjust kind of curious. Could you speak to what you've observed during twothousand and twenty and how it's going to change things for manufacturers aswe, you know, fingers crossed to move into a post covid world sometime inthis New Year? I want to keep it on the positive note. We've had a lot of negativity with thepandemic. I've been speaking with Lara's organizations, I've beenspeaking with researchers, but then higher education every since March, andI first wanted to start off by saying that I think all the service membersfor their service. You know within the health care industry within the supply,chane industry. You know because there's a lot of people behind thescenes that have been doing a lot of amazing things. So we've seen some goodthings come out of this. We have seen people coming together. We have seen alot of empathy, which is good, but my hope is that we can continue with allof this. Ance we emerge. Are This pandemic pre covid? We had a lack oftrust among business partners within business, not just a posing ust inbusiness in general. You know, and- and this pandemic has brought everyonetogether and we've seen some good things come out of this. We have seensome some good opportunities come out of this. From a technologicalperspective, we have seen the acceleration of these emergingtechnologies in terms of artificial...

...intelligence, machine learning andthings like that, where artificial, intelligencen machine learning has hada positive impact on fonding, you know and finding the vaccine, which is beingdistributed from a Subsli chainge perspective as we speak. So I've seensome good things come out of this, and I hope that I hope that we can continuewith these amazing things going. I O Two Thousand and twenty one, but I am,I am glad Twenu two thousand and twents over, because it isn't Simbo. We allare thinkwe all well. Just H I was I was listening toyou speak recently on another podcast and the host asked you a questionrelated to industry for Poino. I don't even remember exactly what she hadasked you, but you kind of immediately jumped in and commented that you knowindustry for Poino is now industry, four point five and I'm curious. If youcould kind of unpack that statement for us and talk about what that means. ASWE GO TO INDUSTRY FOUR POINT: Five I've been getting that question soagain. Another another positive thing to the pandemic is I've been invited toa number of international conferences, given that these internationalconprencens are now virtual, and I have been talking about industry four point.Five often and I've been getting a lot of questions on it, but my reasoning,my justification, is that industry four point: Oh, was introduced the terminerty for point o the vision of Ashi Fo pointo was introduced in Germanyabout ten years ago. Right we were talking about smart factories. We weretalking about the Internet of things, but we had. We did not have any mentionof artificial intelligence, machine learning and BLACKCHEAN. Now peoplepeople argue that black chain is not is not going to take off in the industry,and I would say it's not going to take off in the next three or four years,but it's on the horizon and it's on the horizon, because once we have had theindustry wide adoption of artificial intelligence and machine learning whichwe're seeing now and if you don't adopt...

...that solution, you're going to get leftbehind in my opinion right because we have seen the positive impact to thissolution, we are addressing dicypersecurity concerns right now weare addressing the bias right now. We are addressing the trust right now, sowe're continuing to improve thes solution. But my argument was that wehad no no mention of these technologies that are going to transform theindustry. We said the IOT transform the industry. I think the artificialintelligence is going to be bigger than this whole, this this Iot Prenomina inmy opinion. So that's why I refer to the TERMUP industry. Four point: Five:instead of Inisy Four Point: Oh, that makes sense kind of an evolution, D andmore technology getting layered on. I Din got a BAV. I didn't got inesportfive point of Yeah yeahsay that for a few more years, maybe stretch yea yeah all right now I likethat. Well, I know that you're filled with knowledge in the realms ofautomation, robotics, AI machine learning, blockchain like this is kindof your world and and you're. Just as all of these technologies continue toemerge and evolve and create opportunity, they also create fear formany about what will happen to jobs and I think, there's sometimes a amisconception about maybe what it's going to do to the workforce in some ways atleast and thess, I'm just kind of curious. What's your perspective on howthe workforce will be impacted- or maybe I should say, continue to beimpacted as these technologies become more and more advanced and more andmore, you know prominent in the manufacturing industry. I Ti often I inmy conference presentations that Ar is truly augmented intelligence. What Imean by that is, is that you're ro my age, so so people, people myage, alwayssay that I always tell them that you know when we talk about a we're, nottalking about, will sminth and I robot we're years away from that. You know,but so we're not going to in the coming...

...years we're not going to have robotsmaking their own decisions. You still need humans to program these AIsolutions right. We still don't have to trust of these solutions where we stillhave to confirm theyre. ONLY AI is only a tool. Ai Is only a tool, I say allmore time. Aa is only a tool. That's all. It is right to assist us into decision makingfor manufacturing organizations. So that's why I refer to it as augmentedintelligence, machine learning is only a tool. It will only assist us inmaking those managerial decisions. You also have business process, automationwhich is going to assist us in moving away from those automate, repetitive,monotonous tasks right. So when it comes from a workforce perspectivebecause a large majority of the workforce is going to retire, the nextcoat in the next few years, organizations will beare going to havea difficult time, fonding employees that want to work these labor intensivejobs. You know the students graduated in high school in the students graduatin college. They don't want to work in a factory. They want the automation so because of that workforce caporganizations are going to have to depend on business process, automation,robotic process, automation, artifician, intellligence, machine learning toperform. The task is currently being done by workers. So one thing I alwaystalk about is that the workers have to embrace this technology, it's going tomake their jobs easier and it's going to creat. Well, I opportunities forthem perfect example. I did a pound disgustion with with an executive froman en from the insurance industry, and he said those individuals who used towork walk on the roofs of the home, depos and lows to ensure thosebuildings. He said literally literally the riskin their lives they now flydrums because dromes are using... to you know, see theensurability of those buildings. They were trained to be drown, polots andnow they're being paid more. He said we didn't fire a single purson people whoare rocking on thes roofs, they're, making more money and safer right,they're, safer, theyre happier, probably in a lot of ways and they're,safer and because Dron Pok, because there's a need for drum polots, theyhave to pay hem more, so they stay yeah. So well that S. it's aninteresting perspective. I've had this conversation with the number of people,I'm thinking of even a few on this podcast, I had Tracy Hanson of proglove. I had Gary Kanarskas the president of the American weltingsociety, and we got into these topics in both of those conversations, and Ithink that the there's this fear out there that you K Ow, you see newtechnology coming and people immediately think I'm going to getreplaced by technology or a robot, and I think what the pattern that I seem tobe seeing and hearing from people is that it's not that people are beingreplaced, but it's that their roles are being shifted and efficiencies aregetting created. You know Gary Kanarscad at American volving societytalked a lot about the sort of the the skilled labor gap that is coming andyou just hit on it too. People are retiring, young people entering thework force. Are they don't want to do the dirty jobs? And so what are wegoing to do? Somebody's the work has to get done right. So you know that's kind of. I seems to bea pattern that of things I'm hearing, that we should be embracing thistechnology and figuring out how to integrate it as opposed to being scaredof it and worrying that it's going to take jobs, and what's your response tothat, I think it's it's all about embrace the technology, because it'shere, if you don't embrace it, I said- and the Ted Talk You know whenever andMon one. My Tet talks where you know I talked about my space. I tell people inthe industry, you know people who remember mys said don't get the MIspase, just by being terrified and...

...he're afraid of technology. Don't getmy space don get blockbustered yeah! Now now don't get red box there you gohere, you go well! I mean you know. This applies anywhere like, but nonobody's riding around in carriages being pulled by horses on the streetthese days, R, communicating via typewriters right. It's the technologyis here so right, so we need to just we need to own it and figure out ow how touse it to our advantage right. People argue because they'll call out the twoor three breeches: There are two or three two or three situations where aifailed, but they don't. They don't call out the thousands of successes. Theydon't call out the the positive impact t it had on the pandemic. You know ittakes years to even find a viable solution. F, Vailable, you knowsolution for this things and they found it in what months you know. So I think that it's going to changethe world and like, like I said before, I can't say it enough that is here ishere we have to. We have to embrace it. We have to find a way to democratizethis solution. We have to find a way O de microtaze a we have to find a way to continue to use a offer good, becausewe've seen with technology, people always try to find malicious ways.Eleberat to use technology, we've seen it in AA, so we just have to kind ofhave those task forcin place. We have to sober securities even more importantright now. You know. So that's just one thing we have to lookout for from especially from a manufacturing perspective, all goodpoints Welljustin for someone who doesn't have the expertise, knowledgeto implement some of these technologies. You've been touching on today. How dothey get started? What oure initial steps? Where do they go for information?I would say before Ye, even consider these solutions, ets, emergingtechnologies in most cases, always tell...

...people to check your data check yourdata, because, because all of this, the all of these technologies depend on thedata you know, if you'R, if your data is not accurate, U Ou thatimplementation is not going to be successful, so step number one is get your house inorder Gmmean by getting your house in ordercheck your data andsure, your so your day is clean, cleans your data and thenyou can. The end of next step is to understand your current state digialtransformation maturity. Are you moving from Excele to AA? Areyou moving from quick books to AA? If so, I wouldn't God semas to jest. We take some babysteps. You know so you have to assess what your a maturity or what yourditere transformation maturity would be and the create a Ai Rod map if you willor Giitr transformation roadmap- and that's that's the initial steps onceyou want yhe w identify what that future state vision is going to be.Then you get the education on that solution. It may be from exhale to theRP application. It may be quick books to an the RP application. It may beokay, I'm going to integrate ai into my ERP application. Now, most most of thelargest software providers Tho end FORCS, the SAPS. The oracles have havealready started to integrate ai into their base, ERP solutions and we'reonly going to see more of it emerging they're acquiring these artificialintelligence organizations and they're, including it within their based theirbays solutions, because that's kind of the only way they've Rond e an be ableto compete in the future. Let's face it so it's here, and I think that some ofsome of your existing solutions that you currently have can have these ai solutions. Are youintegrated if you're in, if you're, in that RP maturity within your currentorganization a there any resources, you'd recommend I always try to makethis actionable for people. You know...

...getting off this call saying all right.I erd off of this listening to this podcast and thinking. I need to startlearning more about this at least educating myself anywhere. You wouldpoint them youtube. University. Yeah Youtube is N, amazing, starting point.I actually so some of the conferences I spoke at have already uploaded or andpublished some of my presentations on Youtube. There are a number of MITpresentations that are on Youtube, therar number of Worton presentationsthat are own on Youtube of presentation and surprisenly. They don't get manyviews. It's not entertainment, it's education, so they don't get Meny Adews,but they are. They are absolutely amazing so for education purposes,great! Well, that's good to know! Well, Justin! Is there anything? I didn't askyou about today that you'd like to touch on or add to this conversation,so I just would like to thank everyone for listening. I do want to let youknow that that I do have two books coming out, so one one is going to beartificial intelligence focused on sustainable practices. So if you'veheard of the United Nations Sustainability Development Goals, I'mwriting a book to discuss how we can leverage artificial intelligence toaddress all seventeen soenabily development goals. That should bebecause that will be coming out around the August time frame, as well assustainable project management, where we're going to we're going to talkabout project management but fror organizations that have that areimplementing sustainupoe practices. So maybe we could have another episode onthat discussion. Yeah I like it now. That's that's really exciting that onebook, but two books on the horizon, probably not too many people can saythat's the case. So can grasson very excited D, very excited, we'll keepkeepour ey out for that. Well, Great Justin! This was a really goodconversation. I appreciate you doing this. Can you tell our audience thebest way to get in touch with you or more learn more about what you're up toyeah? So you can follow me on Linkdan Justin Ghoston, the best place to findme often often post topics and articles... the area of sustainability,artificial intelligence supply chain management, among other things, socialresponsibility. So so, please, connect with me. I'm always open and willing tohave a discussion. Perfect will justin thanks again for taking the time to dothis today and for the rest of you, I hope to catch you on the next episodeof the Manufacturing Executive. You've been listening to themanufacturing executive podcast to ensure that you never missed an episodesubscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player. If you'd like to learnmore about industrial marketing and sale strategy, you'll find an everexpanding collection of articles, videos guides and tools, specificallyfor B, to B manufacturers at Grilla, seventy sixcom, fash and learning.Thank you so much for listening until next time.

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