The Manufacturing Executive
The Manufacturing Executive

Episode · 1 year ago

Industry 4.0 is now Industry 4.5 w/ Justin Goldston


Artificial intelligence...machine transformation. All buzzwords marking the transition from Industry 4.0 to Industry 4.5.  

In this episode of the podcast, I talk with someone who's right in the middle of it all.

Justin Goldston, PhD is a professor of project and supply chain management at Penn State University. He works closely with the Penn State Sustainability Institute to blend technology into organizational sustainability efforts.


Justin and I discussed:

  1. What we mean by Industry 4.5
  2. How new technology will impact the workforce in manufacturing
  3. Should we worry about new tech or embrace it?

...Where to go to learn more

To ensure that you never miss an episode of The Manufacturing Show, subscribe on Apple Podcasts, or Spotify, or here.

Once we have had the industry wide adoption of artificial intelligence and machine learning which we're seeing now and if you don't adopt that solution, you're going to get left behind, in my opinion, welcome to the manufacturing executive podcast, where we explore the strategies and experiences that are driving midsize manufacturers. FLORAD here you'll discover new insights from passionate manufacturing leagers, who have compelling stories to share about their successes and struggles and youill learn from btob sales and marketing experts about how to apply actionable business development strategies inside your business. Let's get into the show artificial intelligence, machine learning, blockchain, digital transformation, industry, four point Ou- or maybe I should say industry four point: Five, so many buzzwords so much emerging technology and for many so much overwhelm today. I'm talking with someone who's right in the middle of it all Justin Goldston PhD is a professor of project and supply chain management at pennstate university, where he works closely with the Penn State Sustainability Institute to Blend Technology into organizational sustainability efforts. Dr Goldson has over twenty years of experience, working with organizations worldwide on business performance, improvement, organizational change and enterprise, wide digital transformation initiatives, he's the author of multiple per reviewed journal Articles on supply, chain management and emerging technologies, of critical success factors in ERP implementations and is a fivetime TEDEX Speaker, Dr Goldston, has led and assisted in the development of Suppli, Jane Management, sustainability and business analytics programs at Georgetown University, Texas, Anm University, the IUBH University of Applied Sciences in Germany and North Carolina. Weslean college he's also an executive on the...

International Standards Board at the International Supply Chain Education Alliance and has evaluated doctoral programs for the Department of Higher Education, while serving on the management advisory board at various higher education institutions. Justin welcome to the show. Thank thanks for having me Joe Wel. You've got quite the resume there. I must say so. Before we get into it, I was hoping you could tell our listeners a little bit about your journey and how you wound up inside this world of supply chain management. So I would say that a lot of people- I may be a exception where a lot of people within the supply, chainge discipline sayd to they didn't- have any formal education within supply sham management. I was a computer science major, my first, my first semester at NOCONA aant. I was on a baseball scholarship and I've told his story before and the second semaage that we had. We would travel out of F town, so we had mentor computer labs on Wednesday. So I went to the ent to the Dane of the program and said we we tral for baseball on Wednesdays. I can't I have these computer labs. He said well make a choice between baseball or computer science. I said you're not paying for my scholarship, so I'm out so one of my teammates was in the supply chain program. I go Klina anti and we would get additional scholarship money. I'm no talk, abourt baseball scholarship, so as a Brok College student, absolutely so as as I began in the actual course content focks on supply chain management. You know I said this stuff sounds familiar. You know because, because my father was a plant manager, so I used to I used to work at Workin. A factory count inmentory things like that. You know so I get it so I could dig it o. So I continue I continue on and the rest is history from a supply team management perspective went on to be a management consultant, primarily working with manufacturing distributors and then went to the pen State University to get my maches in supply chain and I've been...

...loving every minute of it. Since then, it's great well for those who are listening here, we're recording this during the final weeks of two thousand and twenty, and it's been quite the year for all of us and the God no kidding ready to se just kind of charge forward into the new year. Not that the you know December to January is W it's more symbolic than anything, but right, we're gright going in the right direction, hopefully right so, but for someone working at smack in the middle of supply chain management. I imagine you've seen some disruptions this year that you probably couldn't have seen common necessarily or maybe you could have if you're some kind of profit, but you know it's been a wild year on that front too. I know from working with you know so many manufacturers, and so I'm just kind of curious. Could you speak to what you've observed during two thousand and twenty and how it's going to change things for manufacturers as we, you know, fingers crossed to move into a post covid world sometime in this New Year? I want to keep it on the positive note. We've had a lot of negativity with the pandemic. I've been speaking with Lara's organizations, I've been speaking with researchers, but then higher education every since March, and I first wanted to start off by saying that I think all the service members for their service. You know within the health care industry within the supply, chane industry. You know because there's a lot of people behind the scenes that have been doing a lot of amazing things. So we've seen some good things come out of this. We have seen people coming together. We have seen a lot of empathy, which is good, but my hope is that we can continue with all of this. Ance we emerge. Are This pandemic pre covid? We had a lack of trust among business partners within business, not just a posing ust in business in general. You know, and- and this pandemic has brought everyone together and we've seen some good things come out of this. We have seen some some good opportunities come out of this. From a technological perspective, we have seen the acceleration of these emerging technologies in terms of artificial...

...intelligence, machine learning and things like that, where artificial, intelligencen machine learning has had a positive impact on fonding, you know and finding the vaccine, which is being distributed from a Subsli chainge perspective as we speak. So I've seen some good things come out of this, and I hope that I hope that we can continue with these amazing things going. I O Two Thousand and twenty one, but I am, I am glad Twenu two thousand and twents over, because it isn't Simbo. We all are thinkwe all well. Just H I was I was listening to you speak recently on another podcast and the host asked you a question related to industry for Poino. I don't even remember exactly what she had asked you, but you kind of immediately jumped in and commented that you know industry for Poino is now industry, four point five and I'm curious. If you could kind of unpack that statement for us and talk about what that means. AS WE GO TO INDUSTRY FOUR POINT: Five I've been getting that question so again. Another another positive thing to the pandemic is I've been invited to a number of international conferences, given that these international conprencens are now virtual, and I have been talking about industry four point. Five often and I've been getting a lot of questions on it, but my reasoning, my justification, is that industry four point: Oh, was introduced the term inerty for point o the vision of Ashi Fo pointo was introduced in Germany about ten years ago. Right we were talking about smart factories. We were talking about the Internet of things, but we had. We did not have any mention of artificial intelligence, machine learning and BLACKCHEAN. Now people people argue that black chain is not is not going to take off in the industry, and I would say it's not going to take off in the next three or four years, but it's on the horizon and it's on the horizon, because once we have had the industry wide adoption of artificial intelligence and machine learning which we're seeing now and if you don't adopt...

...that solution, you're going to get left behind in my opinion right because we have seen the positive impact to this solution, we are addressing dicypersecurity concerns right now we are addressing the bias right now. We are addressing the trust right now, so we're continuing to improve thes solution. But my argument was that we had no no mention of these technologies that are going to transform the industry. We said the IOT transform the industry. I think the artificial intelligence is going to be bigger than this whole, this this Iot Prenomina in my opinion. So that's why I refer to the TERMUP industry. Four point: Five: instead of Inisy Four Point: Oh, that makes sense kind of an evolution, D and more technology getting layered on. I Din got a BAV. I didn't got inesport five point of Yeah yeahsay that for a few more years, maybe stretch yea yeah all right now I like that. Well, I know that you're filled with knowledge in the realms of automation, robotics, AI machine learning, blockchain like this is kind of your world and and you're. Just as all of these technologies continue to emerge and evolve and create opportunity, they also create fear for many about what will happen to jobs and I think, there's sometimes a amis conception about maybe what it's going to do to the workforce in some ways at least and thess, I'm just kind of curious. What's your perspective on how the workforce will be impacted- or maybe I should say, continue to be impacted as these technologies become more and more advanced and more and more, you know prominent in the manufacturing industry. I Ti often I in my conference presentations that Ar is truly augmented intelligence. What I mean by that is, is that you're ro my age, so so people, people myage, always say that I always tell them that you know when we talk about a we're, not talking about, will sminth and I robot we're years away from that. You know, but so we're not going to in the coming...

...years we're not going to have robots making their own decisions. You still need humans to program these AI solutions right. We still don't have to trust of these solutions where we still have to confirm theyre. ONLY AI is only a tool. Ai Is only a tool, I say all more time. Aa is only a tool. That's all. It is right to assist us into decision making for manufacturing organizations. So that's why I refer to it as augmented intelligence, machine learning is only a tool. It will only assist us in making those managerial decisions. You also have business process, automation which is going to assist us in moving away from those automate, repetitive, monotonous tasks right. So when it comes from a workforce perspective because a large majority of the workforce is going to retire, the next coat in the next few years, organizations will beare going to have a difficult time, fonding employees that want to work these labor intensive jobs. You know the students graduated in high school in the students graduat in college. They don't want to work in a factory. They want the automation so because of that workforce cap organizations are going to have to depend on business process, automation, robotic process, automation, artifician, intellligence, machine learning to perform. The task is currently being done by workers. So one thing I always talk about is that the workers have to embrace this technology, it's going to make their jobs easier and it's going to creat. Well, I opportunities for them perfect example. I did a pound disgustion with with an executive from an en from the insurance industry, and he said those individuals who used to work walk on the roofs of the home, depos and lows to ensure those buildings. He said literally literally the riskin their lives they now fly drums because dromes are using... to you know, see the ensurability of those buildings. They were trained to be drown, polots and now they're being paid more. He said we didn't fire a single purson people who are rocking on thes roofs, they're, making more money and safer right, they're, safer, theyre happier, probably in a lot of ways and they're, safer and because Dron Pok, because there's a need for drum polots, they have to pay hem more, so they stay yeah. So well that S. it's an interesting perspective. I've had this conversation with the number of people, I'm thinking of even a few on this podcast, I had Tracy Hanson of pro glove. I had Gary Kanarskas the president of the American welting society, and we got into these topics in both of those conversations, and I think that the there's this fear out there that you K Ow, you see new technology coming and people immediately think I'm going to get replaced by technology or a robot, and I think what the pattern that I seem to be seeing and hearing from people is that it's not that people are being replaced, but it's that their roles are being shifted and efficiencies are getting created. You know Gary Kanarscad at American volving society talked a lot about the sort of the the skilled labor gap that is coming and you just hit on it too. People are retiring, young people entering the work force. Are they don't want to do the dirty jobs? And so what are we going to do? Somebody's the work has to get done right. So you know that's kind of. I seems to be a pattern that of things I'm hearing, that we should be embracing this technology and figuring out how to integrate it as opposed to being scared of it and worrying that it's going to take jobs, and what's your response to that, I think it's it's all about embrace the technology, because it's here, if you don't embrace it, I said- and the Ted Talk You know whenever and Mon one. My Tet talks where you know I talked about my space. I tell people in the industry, you know people who remember mys said don't get the MI spase, just by being terrified and...

...he're afraid of technology. Don't get my space don get blockbustered yeah! Now now don't get red box there you go here, you go well! I mean you know. This applies anywhere like, but no nobody's riding around in carriages being pulled by horses on the street these days, R, communicating via typewriters right. It's the technology is here so right, so we need to just we need to own it and figure out ow how to use it to our advantage right. People argue because they'll call out the two or three breeches: There are two or three two or three situations where ai failed, but they don't. They don't call out the thousands of successes. They don't call out the the positive impact t it had on the pandemic. You know it takes years to even find a viable solution. F, Vailable, you know solution for this things and they found it in what months you know. So I think that it's going to change the world and like, like I said before, I can't say it enough that is here is here we have to. We have to embrace it. We have to find a way to democratize this solution. We have to find a way O de microtaze a we have to find a way to continue to use a offer good, because we've seen with technology, people always try to find malicious ways. Eleberat to use technology, we've seen it in AA, so we just have to kind of have those task forcin place. We have to sober securities even more important right now. You know. So that's just one thing we have to look out for from especially from a manufacturing perspective, all good points Welljustin for someone who doesn't have the expertise, knowledge to implement some of these technologies. You've been touching on today. How do they get started? What oure initial steps? Where do they go for information? I would say before Ye, even consider these solutions, ets, emerging technologies in most cases, always tell...

...people to check your data check your data, because, because all of this, the all of these technologies depend on the data you know, if you'R, if your data is not accurate, U Ou that implementation is not going to be successful, so step number one is get your house in order Gmmean by getting your house in order check your data andsure, your so your day is clean, cleans your data and then you can. The end of next step is to understand your current state digial transformation maturity. Are you moving from Excele to AA? Are you moving from quick books to AA? If so, I wouldn't God semas to jest. We take some baby steps. You know so you have to assess what your a maturity or what your ditere transformation maturity would be and the create a Ai Rod map if you will or Giitr transformation roadmap- and that's that's the initial steps once you want yhe w identify what that future state vision is going to be. Then you get the education on that solution. It may be from exhale to the RP application. It may be quick books to an the RP application. It may be okay, I'm going to integrate ai into my ERP application. Now, most most of the largest software providers Tho end FORCS, the SAPS. The oracles have have already started to integrate ai into their base, ERP solutions and we're only going to see more of it emerging they're acquiring these artificial intelligence organizations and they're, including it within their based their bays solutions, because that's kind of the only way they've Rond e an be able to compete in the future. Let's face it so it's here, and I think that some of some of your existing solutions that you currently have can have these ai solutions. Are you integrated if you're in, if you're, in that RP maturity within your current organization a there any resources, you'd recommend I always try to make this actionable for people. You know...

...getting off this call saying all right. I erd off of this listening to this podcast and thinking. I need to start learning more about this at least educating myself anywhere. You would point them youtube. University. Yeah Youtube is N, amazing, starting point. I actually so some of the conferences I spoke at have already uploaded or and published some of my presentations on Youtube. There are a number of MIT presentations that are on Youtube, therar number of Worton presentations that are own on Youtube of presentation and surprisenly. They don't get many views. It's not entertainment, it's education, so they don't get Meny Adews, but they are. They are absolutely amazing so for education purposes, great! Well, that's good to know! Well, Justin! Is there anything? I didn't ask you about today that you'd like to touch on or add to this conversation, so I just would like to thank everyone for listening. I do want to let you know that that I do have two books coming out, so one one is going to be artificial intelligence focused on sustainable practices. So if you've heard of the United Nations Sustainability Development Goals, I'm writing a book to discuss how we can leverage artificial intelligence to address all seventeen soenabily development goals. That should be because that will be coming out around the August time frame, as well as sustainable project management, where we're going to we're going to talk about project management but fror organizations that have that are implementing sustainupoe practices. So maybe we could have another episode on that discussion. Yeah I like it now. That's that's really exciting that one book, but two books on the horizon, probably not too many people can say that's the case. So can grasson very excited D, very excited, we'll keep keepour ey out for that. Well, Great Justin! This was a really good conversation. I appreciate you doing this. Can you tell our audience the best way to get in touch with you or more learn more about what you're up to yeah? So you can follow me on Linkdan Justin Ghoston, the best place to find me often often post topics and articles... the area of sustainability, artificial intelligence supply chain management, among other things, social responsibility. So so, please, connect with me. I'm always open and willing to have a discussion. Perfect will justin thanks again for taking the time to do this today and for the rest of you, I hope to catch you on the next episode of the Manufacturing Executive. You've been listening to the manufacturing executive podcast to ensure that you never missed an episode subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player. If you'd like to learn more about industrial marketing and sale strategy, you'll find an ever expanding collection of articles, videos guides and tools, specifically for B, to B manufacturers at Grilla, seventy sixcom, fash and learning. Thank you so much for listening until next time.

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