The Manufacturing Executive
The Manufacturing Executive

Episode 121 · 2 months ago

Lowering the Barrier to Robot Deployment


The narrative around robotics, automation, and industry 4.0 technology are that these technologies are out of reach and require overwhelming investments and change to company infrastructure, but with advancements in technology across the manufacturing sector, this narrative is changing quickly.   

Fady Saad and Mark Martin are General Partners at Cybernetix, a venture capital firm leading the way for investment into early-stage robotics, automation, and AI startups. Fady is also the Co-Founder of MassRobotics, the world's first and largest robotics & AI startup escalator. He led the multi-million dollar fundraising for the organization and architected MassRobotics' corporate partnership program and business model.  

Mark has 25+ years of executive tech leadership spanning industrial, healthcare, automotive, and consumer industries. A former VP of Analog Devices Industrial Automation, Sensors, and IoT division leading a $1B+ business, Mark led multiple acquisitions, strategic investments, and scaled new business ventures. 

In this episode, Fady and Mark break down all of the transformational technology changes that are affecting manufacturing right now.  

Join us as we discuss:

  • Some of the transformational technologies that are happening in manufacturing right now 
  • What it takes to get past the fear of change to make or invest in something new 
  • Mark and Fady's perspective on automation in manufacturing not being an option, but a necessity 
  • How the current economic climate will affect manufacturing in the near future

And all of this innovation is all about taking down the barriers to deployment, making it easier for uh non expert, non robotics experts, to be able to deploy the technology and deploy it quickly and easily and get it up and running and delivering value as quick as possible. Welcome to the manufacturing executive podcast, where we explore the strategies and experiences that are driving mid size manufacturers forward. Here you'll discover new insights from passionate manufacturing leaders who have compelling stories to share about their successes and struggles, and you'll learn from B two B sales and marketing experts about how to apply actionable business development strategies inside your business. Let's get into the show. Welcome to another episode of the Manufacturing Executive podcast. I'm Joe Sullivan, your host and a CO founder of the Industrial Marketing Agency guerilla seventy six, where we help B two B manufacturers grow through revenue focused marketing programs. Over the past couple of years, having conducted well over a hundred conversations with manufacturing leaders on this podcast and many more with our own clients and prospects, I have observed a gap between reality and perception about robotics, automation and industry. Four Point, oh, technology. The perception is that many of these technologies are still a little bit out of reach, requiring overwhelming investments and major changes to company infrastructures. But I've become more and more convinced that these assumptions aren't necessarily true in the way they might have been a decade ago. Today, the cost of hardware is lower, there are more use cases for automation and more specialized robots to do these jobs as well. We have no code robots of ailable to deploy quickly with little to no programming knowledge required. We have cobots available to assist with, rather than replace human labor, and, given the unmet demand for Labor in our economy right now, all of these technological advancements in manufacturing are becoming more of a necessity than they are an option. My two guests today collectively possess a wealth of knowledge about these topics and they're going to break down what they know for you in this conversation. Let me introduce them. Fadi sad is a general partner of Cybernet exventures. He's also the CO founder of mass robotics, the first and largest robotics and AI startup escalator in the world. Fadi led the multimillion dollar fundraising for the organization and architected Master Robotics Corporate Partnership Program and Business Model. Fadi supported and advised multiple startups and introduced them to a hundred fifty plus vcs in the US and globally. Early in his career, Fadi was a regional managear of Nokia Siemens networks in North Africa and Europe, where he led and managed multimillion euro acquisitions and bids. He was also part of the team that led the merger between Siemens calm and Nokia networks in North Africa for seven hundred plus employees. Mark Martin is a general partner of cyber net ex ventures. He's an experienced investor, board member, advisor and tech executive. Mark is a former VP of analog devices, industrial automation, sensors and Iot Division, where he ran a one billion dollar plus business, led multiple acquisitions, led strategic investments and scaled new business ventures. Marc has twenty five plus years of executive tech leadership spanning industrial, healthcare, automotive and consumer industries. Mark executed the sale of two business units for more than four hundred fifty million and led one million of acquisitions across four transactions. Fadie and mark, welcome to the show. Thank you. Thank you very much. Well, guys, I'm...

...wondering if you could start out by telling us a little bit about cybernetics and what you guys are doing over there. Yeah, cybernetics is Um an early stage. We see fund we invest in precede seed and series a companies. Um, we UM. We formed a company, um or the firm, to solve the early stage funding gap for roboutic automation companies. And we do believe that most investors um either clustered around stays and pure software investments or Buyo take investments, and Thoseo are both kind of to end of the spectrum and robotics does not fit well any any any of those clusters somewhere in between. So this created a challenge for most investors, like how do you DU S S? How do you do due diligence on early stage robout this company? How do you engage later whose portfolio companies? So Um um, kind of realizing that we we ought an admission to really carving out robotics as a whole investment class in itself and from a fun focused perspective, based on all of our experience in the market and technology domain. We focus on four, uh four sectors, manufacturing, logistics, healthcare and construction, and each of those are in various phases of evolution and we are so from the Fund strategy perspective, we're investing about half of the fund in full stack hardware software robotics companies and then the other half of the fund and what we call enabling technologies like ai and machine learning, cloud robotics, cybersecurity for robotics, Iot, which is all kind of connected into the whole smart machine theme. So good diverse strategy. And we were also, you know, we're based on the east coast, but we're investing, we're investing globally. Tell me a little bit about mast robotics as well. So so mas robotics. My motivation to co found mas robotics was the unique chasm for robotics companies that it's rarely we speak about that. There's the very famous chasm of how you move from early adapters to mass market and there has been a lot of research, lots of books around that. But there's another cast that kind of overlooked, especially in hardware and deep decked manufaction related companies, which is how do you move from a prototype to a finished part? In software you don't have really this cast because once you have an M v P and my minimum viable product or a prototype, you can put it online, you can put it on the APP store, let people play with it and if there's any bugs or any problems, you can fix all of this over the air. The worst thing that could happen is the software crash. But obviously in hardware you cannot do the same. No one is expecting a prototype of a car or a phone or a piece of machine. The tolerance for failure is much lower and obviously costs and liabilities in shipping and all of that is is just higher and very different. So Um, so this, this cast, historically speaking, is where many robotics companies would fail like. They will join the traditional incubation and acceleration models, moved from an idea to a prototype and then they are basically they don't find the resources. Where where do they go from there? So Um, when I when I co found a mass robotics this was the unique problem that I was focusing on is how we can create a system, a support system for startups that solves some of the key problems in this cast. How do...

...we take companies from the stage to a finished product? And it really comes down to three key things. Um, shared physical infrastructure, with the machine shop, prototyping, lots of assets, lots of robots, electronics lab and basically the physical space, because this is a huge investment on the startup site. The second one is the strategic infrastructure, so having strategic connections to partners, to suppliers, manufacturing, potential customers to do pilot and test the technology, investors and so forth. And Uh, this is also a network that I spent a lot of my time at mestrobotics building and nurturing. So we we developed forty core, core corporal partners, companies like Amazon robotics, Fedex on them, SPECI electric analytic devices, Thomas Ashley, Cowan, Uh and others. At the last pieces the the ecosystem infrastrate shure that programming, the networking events that Demore, basically making multiple Um touch points and kind of opportunities for the different stakeholders to come together and share ideas experiences, insights Um so fast forward from to today, we grow the organization. It's leading around four hundred abouties, companies in the East Coast, having more than seventy residents, startups, forty corporate partners, forty town square feet of shared the office and lab space spun out seven companies and UH and the company is growing and I'm very proud of the team we have there and all the activities and programming, and also we do a lot of work around stem, just nurturing the next generation of property system and professionals in this space. And I would just add that the you know all of the great work that astrobotics has done and and fade has helped lead. The one gap that we saw and Faiti. This gap was very clear with Fati and also with myself, was that still the missing piece, was that capital investment. That's the one piece that mastrobotics doesn't do and that was really the reason for the launch of the Fund. Makes a lot of sense. congrats on what you guys have accomplished so far. It sounds super interesting and there's obviously a need for it. So you guys are surrounded constantly by innovation in your line of work. I'd be curious to hear you talk about some of the transformational technologies that you see happening in manufacturing right now from startups. So the way we see it is from kind of a macro perspective. What has been happening in manufacturing over the last few decades or so is, when you think of the history of Um creating stuff, we started off by very customized, very tailored thing, like if you want to to have a pair of shoes or a watch or a sword or whatever, you will go to a professional and they will develop this kind of custom build for you. Obviously this this was expensive, it took a long time and not highly optimized. And then came the lost revolution and they kind of opened up the door for the mass production and the classical production lines and and we know the kind of the Henry Ford Story and all of that. And with mass production we lost customization. So you cannot have a customized pair of shoes, like I mean there are certain sizes and regardless the shape of your uh feed. I mean this is this is what you get. So Um and this is the kind of the the the era that we have been living in for the last maybe a few decades or so. Now we are stepping...

...into what's called mass production in quantities of one. So we are going back to customization and tailoring, but not relying on professionals, but on very smart machines. And these are machines that are able to uh self organized, self configure and basically have some level of intelligence. Um, and and and this is actually built on the hierarchy of the industry four point Oh. When you think of the Pyramid of the industry, four point Oh, at the very bottom you have iot sensors to kind of get data, and then on top of that there's the analytics layer and then on top of that you have the cognition and Ai Layer, and then that, the peak of this hierarchy is these kind of smart machines. So so this is the mega trend that we see, that we are moving, Um, a little bit away from fixed production lines. Two more self configure, self organized smart production systems. It's not line anymore right, um. And then in order to do that, we have been seeing lots of advancing technologies. So market and can share some examples, but this is the kind of the overview that we see and like a lot of and like a lot of technology trends, it ultimately comes down to convergence and timing and, as Faddy has outlined, this uh, the use of smart, smart manufacing machines, manufacturing, production, manufacturing of one it ultimately has to be enabled by underlying technology. Otherwise you're just you're just wishing and hoping for the concept. And so what's great about what's happening now is you have incredible sensor technology that's improving, Um, you know, continuously and the costs are dropping. You have incredible processing power that's getting stronger and stronger with some of the leading chip companies. Um, you have improvements in software. So that what it takes to develop a robot today in terms of hardware and software. Um, you have tons of capability that you can build on. The development times or shrinking dramatically. So you have this can you have this megatrends, fade, you described, being supported from underneath by the incredible progress of technology at the key technology elements that support robotics systems. So I mean we can mention some examples that you are seeing in robotics. So I mean obviously the whole trend of clarity robots. Um. So these are basically I mean compared of the classical and also arms, the huge bulky caged and ambustor arms, these robots are lightweight, much safer, easy to program obviously much cheaper. Um, they don't have the same capability in terms of payload and kind of repeatability, but they basically opened up a whole new areas of automation. Things that we put auto make before with the lost arms because of either dexterity or safety or just visibility. Now kind of small dusks, very repetitive tasks that were done by humans can be done with collaborative robots. So obviously universal robot is marketly there in the space. This is a Danish company got acquired by Terodine, which is a large local company here in Massachusetts, and they probably have of the the market. Uh. And then there...

...are lots of other companies trying to create their own collaborative robots. We see also the large ABB fan of cooking. All of those traditional players have came up with their own versions of the robots. So this is definitely an area that we're seeing lots of advances. Um, and then you have and then you have autonomous mobile robots or as people refer to them a Mrs Uh these and these comes in in a variety of forms, whether they're picking or picking items for packing into ship shipping boxes or um or you have them for moving moving products and either an logistics or warehouse facility or in the in the manufacturing operations, either on the front end or on the back end in the inventory and finished goods so and Um. You know, one of the one of the key launch points for the robotics industry was Amazon Acquiring Keyva back in twelve and another uh and one of the things that happened was that launched a company effectively called locust robotics, which was again another Boston based company who, once Amazon took Kiva off the market, the logistics manufacturers needed a solution for autonomous mobile robots, and and locust robots robotics grew out of that. They're now one of the industry leaders in the space, with a multibillion dollar valuations. So Uh and there's there's many other players as well. So there's a lot of there's been a lot of advances and there's now a lot of options. Uh. So, whether you're a large manufacturer or a small manufacturer. UH, there's a lot of technology, proven technology to choose from. Now another. Daya we see lots of advances in is is grippers. So we're so these are the end of factors of a lot of the robots or in loosser arms. But we have been seeing lots of advances there, especially in soft robotics or soft grippers that can manipulate Um stuff that you cannot handle with the traditional mechanical grippers. So stuff like food, bakery, eggs, closing, you know all of that. So there's actually a local company here called Soft Robotics Day, one of the pioneers in the Space Um. But Um, there has been lots of advances in this area, the area of grippers, because, Um, you could have the arm, but how and what items to manipulate it really depend on the gripper. And then there's advances in Um machine vision systems, so how you can enable those arms to see things and decide how to pick items, how to move items without heart hard coding or hard programming. Um. So also companies like right hand robotics, dexterity and and few others. Um. So we have been seeing lots of advances there. Another area is UH basically interfaces. So how you interface with robots, how you program them, how you Um Um configure them. So there's lots of work done around that. So basically, how we can get to a level that you don't need to have any programming background to program a robot. So stuff like Um kind of. There's a whole group of companies now that they are called like no quote programming. So you don't need to write any code, but you can. It's rather graphical kind of block based programming, or even speaking to the robots or just your control all the all these kind...

...of things, and this is all this is and all of this innovation is all about taking down the barriers to deployment, making it easier for non expert non robotics experts, to be able to deploy the technology and deploy it quickly and easily and get it up and running and delivering value as quick as possible. Yeah, so, yeah, and the area programming is so two interesting companies come to my mind, south the autonomy, one of the residents of Mestrobotics and tutor also a resident of Mestrobiotics. But there are lots of others all over the the US and even alive so no shortage of technology advances, Joel, for sure. Okay, let's take a quick break here. I want to let a couple of our strategists at gorilla seventy six tell you about something pretty cool that we're doing right now for marketing folks in the manufacturing sector. Peyton and Mary, take it away. Yes, so, I'm Peyton warrant and I'm Ry Kio. Twice a month we host a live event called industrial marketing. Live right now we have a group of fifty plus industrial marketers from a variety of manufacturing organizations. We meet up digitally to learn, ask questions, network and get smarter. Every session has a designated topic and one of our team members at guerrilla seventy six opens up by teaching for the first half hour or so. Topics have included how to get better at a manufacturing Webinar, getting started with paid social on Linkedin, how to optimize your website for conversions, creating amazing video content and so much more. After we break it down, we open it up to q and a so we can help you apply all of this in your own businesses. This is pure value, no cost, no strings attached, no product or service pitches, just so unadulterated learning experience. Oh and on top of these live sessions, we've also opened up a slack channel where our attendees bounce ideas off each other and learned together all week long between sessions. We're building a true community of manufacturing marketing professionals here. So if you or someone at your company has the Word Marketing in his or her job title, please consider telling them about it. They can visit industrial marketing live dot com to register. We love to see you there. Yeah, great, overvie there, UM, and I think it's a good lead in to the next question I wanted to ask you about your mark. You just said that a lot of this technology is about Um making, lowering the barrier, making robotics and automation more accessible to more companies and more situations. Um. So let's let's talk about technology adoption here that there are places in the manufacturing sector, Igoucy, so much innovation going on and in other places you have companies operating like it was two year, fifty years ago. And in some ways, what does it take to get past that fear of change or making an investment in something new? First of all, I think the high level point is that things have changed a lot, even in the last three years, five years. You used to have, you know, if you were to, especially for a small medium operation, to jump into adopting some of this new technology, you would have been taking some risks. You'd be you might be one of the leading use cases to try and solve some of these issues. That's really not the case anymore. For most manufacturing tasks, somebody has already tried it and in a lot of cases solved that uh, and so I think that the risk is dramatically reduced. Today you've got multiple choices in terms of vendors. You've got tons of use cases out there where a lot of what I think small and medium manufacturers will find somebody has already solved this problem and you don't. So the risk, fundamentally is dramatically lower. So it's all about I think step one is assess...

...your operations. What are what are you know? What's your what are your top priorities? Um, do you have a labor issue? Do you need to try and bring in some automation to address that? Are you trying to drive up productivity or trying to reduce cycle times, whatever it is, and pick something in your manufacturing operations to make that first step. And maybe you don't touch your manufacturing line. Maybe you focus on finish goods, inventory and and moving products. Get a robot or two into the facility. Maybe it's just moving material from a loading dock into your manufacturing operation. Pick somewhere in your manufacturing operation and and target that. And then, I think, in terms of next steps, reach out to people who know the industry and you know, that could be us, for example, in terms of giving guiding some folks, and then start talking to vendors. And then what's very common in the industry is Um and all the there's are used to working in this way. If you want your pilot, pick, pick that operation that you want to automate and UH and launch a pilot and and, you know, get management and line people involved in the process. Um and get people comfortable with it, test out that pilot, do your R and r o I analysis and validate, validate the value proposition. This is this is really the way to get started and and then from you know, it really depends on the scope of ambition. But if you if you want to go step by step, pick a pick an operation that's uh that's high value to to to the the operation, to improve, to drive some kind of improvement, and I think people will find that, as I said, the technology has advanced to such a stage that it's uh, it's not as scary. And I would emphasize the people's side of it. I think when you know, we hear the story all the time that, um, people who have taken that step that I'm describing, they realized that some of the workers they like, actually how it's kind of cool, kind of exciting to have that robot moving around the factory and they're excited to most people will be excited to learn about it and if you do, if you do the right kind of onboarding of both your your staff, as well as doing the financial analysis and the execution Um, many, many times it's going to lead to a successful experience. If I may just add that manufacturers, when they get engaged with startups, one piece of advice is don't don't interact with startups as a supplier as inventor h there are still young companies, there are there's a lot that they need to learn about your space and Industry and UH business. So Um, take them by your side, uh work together to solve the problems and perfected the product. Don't kind of sit on the other side and kind of feed them with requirements and specs and expect them to figure it out and come back with the finished solution. It's a it's a very hard expectation from small companies. They have the innovation, they have the new technologies, they have the new tools, but definitely they need the wealth of experience that manufacturers have, and the good news is they're almost on all cases very hungry to learn, and so I think you make a great point for that taking a highly collaborative approach with these companies. They want to learn, they want to make you successful as a manufacturer. You want to make this successful. Taking a collaborative approach... the right way to go. Fade and mark. I hear a lot of buzz these days about reassuring of US manufacturing, and much of this being driven by supply chain challenges the past few years. But alongside that we continue to see an exodus of workers that is creating a pretty troubling shortage of labor. To me, all of these points towards automation not being an option but a necessity. But I'd like to hear your perspectives on it. been endless discussions and conversations around robotics automation and jobs and manufacturing and reassuring and all that, and it's very hard to to generalize this discussion because manufacturing is different than logistics different, construction different, and healthcare different and utilities. Every industry has its own profile in terms of UH lave force, in terms of market dynamics, export and import and all of that. So, for example, one of the sectors that we invest in, as mark mentioned earlier, is construction, and construction uh, without any kind of debate, they have a labor shortage. They don't have enough Labor to cope with the increased demand. So and that's why we see a lot of activities around construction robotics and we invested in two companies and about to conclude the third one in the space Um. So this is this is the the state of the workforce and construction for some. The same with health here too, when you think of manufacturing Um again, I think it varied from different sub segment to another. Uh. Some they are strunging to find the permitted stable workforce, others they don't have enough ah, but overall we also during the pandemic that basically we um kind of supply chain challenges and the high dependency on manufacturing overseas, and the US is is well aware of that. From a national perspective, there's already plans in place and the U S government seem bringing manufacturing back to the US as as a matter of national security, and this was the reason for the launch of many initiatives. One of them is the arm institute, Advanced Robotic Manufacturing Institute and and few others. Um So there's already federal initiatives around the topic. But I think what we need to change is we need to change the the public perspective and the narrative around robotics and automation and the whole resisting of not automate, not to use robots because it will take away jobs. This is Um it's a very tricky argument because if we don't do that, we will become less competitive, which means that we will lose business and we will lose economic opportunities that will go to other countries that have course advantages or who are investing heavily in using robotics. So Um, fun fact. South Korea is uh, the top country in terms of dynasty of robots pair capital. So this is South Korea. The US comes like six or seven on the list. There's Germany, there's China, there's there are other countries there. So and and lots of reports predict that fifty of all robots by to t thirty...

...will be sold in the UN China. So China is the largest market for U loss of robots and collaborative robots and all of that. So so we need to think about Um economy and and and and business opportunities. If we have more business opportunities and if we manufacture more and more kind of products in the US, it means that we will open up more and more jobs. If we close those factories and we we don't have them, we lose them to other countries, then basically we lost the whole business and all the supporting businesses around them. So this is the perspective that we all need to to understand and and share with our own networks. When you think of Amazon, Amazon, they they have a highly automated operation. They acquire robotics companies, they continue to invest heavily in robotics and they have fleet of robots and they they're basically hiring tons and tons of people to just cope with the business that they are generating. Obviously they are not hiring the kind of very, very frontline jobs, but they in terms of economic opportunity and activity. It's huge and they are expanding to other places. So I think this is what we need to Uh to focus on. It's about creating opportunities and the same the technology convergence opportunities, the same as we discussed earlier, the the evolution of the robotics technology, the availability and the variety of options you have to deploy very competitive solutions. For sure, this closes this helps dramatically in closing the global competitive gap with other overseas manufacturing and, of course, you have the benefit of being close to where the customers are in the case city you us. And so I think now is the time that this outdated argument about robots are going to steal all the jobs and you overlay labor shortage. Now is the time and when we launched the Fund we really felt like we had a good idea and we had pretty good time and then covid head and actually this through the doors open in terms of this was kind of the first call to to bring automation and robotics into into some of these sectors to protect people, to become more efficient and and we see that that's just going to continue now and what we thought was a good idea and now it looks like a great idea with great timing, as as the industry is duly taking off. And I would also say this Um there's an opportunity out there. One of the other trends we see Um, which I think goes to the restoring point, is this concept of micro factories. There's a lot of there's a lot of innovation going on in the area of micro factories and and it's a variety of different implementations, but you can effectively put a mini factory in us. Think of a shipping container and if you take all the latest and greatest robotics technology and you pack it into a shipping container, and be amazed that but you might be able to produce and imagine when we first launched, when we first got hit by Covid if you could have dropped shipping containers in the parking lot of hospitals and produced masks. How would that have changed? Rather than waiting for airplanes flying mass over from China Um and this is the kind of thing that you this is the kind of thing you can do with automation. You can bring manufacturing Um close. Doesn't have to be mega, massive factories and centralized locations. You can you can move to a distributed model. The other opportunity that's out there for some of your listeners in the manufacturing space is the...

...volume of robotics manufacturing is going up dramatically and there's a huge opportunity for for for a few entities to step into this space and be the VI, a US based manufacturer for some of these robotics subsystems or even full robotics. Still, today, many robotics manufacturers, robotics companies, have to go overseas to get either their full systems or there um, their subsystems manufacturing any kind of volumes and Um. So there's an opportunity out there in micro factories. There's an opportunity out there and actually being the manufacturer for robotics systems and we know a lot. We have a long list of startups that would love to talk to manufacturers locally, uh that could do that job cost effectively. As we're recording this in August, of two and economists seem to be debating whether we're truly headed into a full scale recession or not. Right now. There's definitely volatile ality out there. How do you see the current economic climate affecting manufacturing in the foreseeable future? We have a few data points. I wouldn't say that we have a complete theory here, but we have few data points and a few observations that Um, robotics adoption historically speaking, have had a reverse correlation with downturns and recessions, meaning that if you have a recession and everything is slowing down, actually companies look at automation and robotics because this could help on kind of respond to fluctuating demands and reduce costs and Um just allowed them to kind of manage these situations. Um, we we saw that during the pandemic. So there was a huge kind of up take take on robotics adoption, robotics investment across the board, not only kind of disinfecting robots or healthcare robotics and uh, these kind of robots, but also manufacturing supply chain, all all operations that were hit by the fact that they cannot have people physically in in workplace. So how would you do that? You need uh robotics workforce to to do that to keep the economy going on. So, Um, we do, we do think and we do hope that we will see some similarities here with this downturn, that large companies, and probably manufacturers too, will do that. And Mark and I were kind of discussing recently that it's uh, it's also good time for manufacturing companies if you want to invest. Yeah, I think it's very you know, I think you know, it's in an age old saying in the in the tech industry that the Best Companies Take Advantage of downturns. And you know, we'll see what we'll see what the downturn recession really looks like. But the best companies take advantage of those downturns to make not go crazy on investment, but make wise investments that position them for the next upturn. And so I think investing in robotics, in capital investment, that's going to drive productivity improvement and you know, if you're if your manufacturing operations are not running at a hundred, guess what, it's a pretty nice time to do robotics pilot right, good time to uh to test out some of the stuff like we've discussed on on this podcast. Fade Mark, is there anything that I did not ask you about that you'd like to add to this conversation? Or we can't have manufacturers as as an investment from. Sometimes it's not an obvious connection, like, okay, you you are an investment firm, you invest in small companies. How you can... get engaged with manufacturing companies or large manufacturing firms? Um. So a few things that come to our mind. Obviously, we are are there. We have tons of connections to lots of companies, innovative companies in the space. I have a huge exposure to both companies in the US and worldwide. So if manufacturers want to Um kind of pick our brain or kind of bost bounce ideas with us around what are the technologies out there and what are the companies that you might get engaged with, I think this is something we can help with. Another thing is Um. If, as mark said, if companies are interested in investing, we can also help companies with some of the opportunities that we ourselves are looking at for investment opportunities. Um. A third thing is Um. Many companies in our portfolio actually are looking for manufacturers to uh to manufactured the kind of products that they are doing, and it's not always easy to find the right manufacturers. So if, if some people on the audience here are contract manufacturing or electronics assembly providers and and all those amazing faults who are interested to get engaged with us and our portfolio companies on our network, we are also happy to to chat and help and and build connections. Mark, I don't know what else we can help with. I think that the overall point is, you know, obviously we're investors, but we also believe in the ecosystem and uh and and we want to we want to see the we want to see the network and the community grow and and we we take it as part of our responsibility to help and making those connections and and and help drive the drive the ecosystem to support robotics and automation for everyone. At the end of the day, this is a great kind station. Guys, can you tell our listeners how they can get in touch with the two of you, as well as learn more about Cybernet expensures and mass robotics? But the best way to get in touch with us is throw our website. UH WW DOT cybernetics was an accident dot vc Um, so there's lots of information about the firm. There is a contact form there were very disciplined and checking every outreach and responding to everyone, so probably this is the best way to get in touch with us. For Mass Robotics, website is ww dot mas robotics dot org and people can go there and see how they can help or support or get engaged. Well, guys, thanks for doing this today. Thank you, Joe, for having Chel. Thanks very much. It's been a pleasure. It was my pleasure, as for the rest of you. I hope to catch you on the next episode of the Manufacturing Executive. You've been listening to the manufacturing executive podcast to ensure that you never missed an episode. Subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player. If you'd like to learn more about industrial marketing and sales strategy, you'll find an ever expanding collection of articles, videos, guides and tools specifically for B two B manufacturers at guerrilla seventy six dot com slash learn. Thank you so much for listening. Until next time,.

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