The Manufacturing Executive
The Manufacturing Executive

Episode · 1 month ago

Fixing the Manufacturer-Distributor Relationship w/ Tom Paul

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Without our dealers and distributors, who would sell our products? Without us, what would they sell? 

We need each other. 

Why then is the relationship so often strained? 

Today’s guest, Tom Paul, Founder & CEO at BAM!, says it doesn’t have to be. All it takes is a little work from both parties… and maybe reading at least one 25-year-old article. 

In this episode, we discuss:

-Why the manufacturer-dealer relationship is so often fractured (and 3 steps to fixing it)

-The solution BAM! has created that helps address these very issues

-Why you shouldn’t pick your SaaS solutions based on Lord of the Rings

To ensure that you never miss an episode of The Manufacturing Executive, subscribe on Apple Podcasts, or Spotify..

Tom Paul can be found on LinkedIn here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tom-paul/ 

Listening on a desktop & can’t see the links? Just search for The Manufacturing Executive in your favorite podcast player.

I've never personally seen arelationship that is more symbiotic at its core than the manufacturer and sortof independent sales network relationship, because without thedealers and distributors, the manufacturer has no one to sell theequipment and without the equipment they have nothing to sell. Welcome to the manufacturing executivepodcast, where we explore the strategies and experiences that aredriving midsize manufacturers forward here, you'll discover new insights frompassionate manufacturing leaders who have compelling stories to share abouttheir successes and struggles, and you will learn from Bob Sales and marketingexperts about how to apply actionable business development strategies insideyour business. Let's get into the show, welcome to another episode of theManufacturing Executive Podcast, I'm Joe Sullivan your host and a Co founderof the Industrial Marketing Agency Gorilla. Seventy six, a vast majorityof manufacturers. I talk to invest heavily in their sales force, the hiregreat people, they train those people. Well, they arm them with tools theysend them where they need to go to build relationships with customers andprospects. Well, at least they do this when those sales people operate asemployees of the company. But what about dealers and distributors, thepeople who live outside the walls of the company that are often the onesresponsible for owning that customer relationship? Why is it that so manymanufacturing organizations fail to give these individuals the same kind ofsupport that they would an internal employee? Who has the word sales in hisor her job title today? My guest is going to dive into this topic. He'lltalk about the problem and, more importantly, he'll talk about how tocorrect it. So on that note, let's get into the conversation Tom Paul is the CEO of Pop art ink andAward Winning Software Development Shop...

...located in Portland Oregon. That'sdeveloped, custom application, portfolios for clients, includingfreight liner trucks, Louisiana Pacific, siding carrier, air conditioning out caerospace, the Oregon Lottery and Nike in two thousand and eighteen, the popar team launched Bam a first of its kind SASS mobile sales tool designed tohelp manufacturers instantly enable and support their dealers and distributorsprior to joining pop art. In two thousand Tom Served in the US army siup and also worked in the translation industry thom as a graduate of thedefense language institute at the Presidio of Monterey, Fort Braggs, JohnF Kennedy, Special Warfare Center and school and Stanford Executive InstituteTom Welcome to show hey thanks so much joe, it's great to be here. Awesome. Wewere introduced through one of my teammates at gorilla at Chanell, and Iknow he's doing some of advising you on the side and Matt said Hey. You got totalk to Tom Because he's doing some really cool stuff in the manufacturingsector, with sales enablement, which is a topic that we talk about a lot withour clients and getting marketing and sales aline, helping sales, develop theprocesses and tools and content and systems to do their jobs. Better andspecifically, I know where you've sort of found your neches helpingmanufacturers sort of build those relationships and enable theirdistribution network dealers, distributors, and so I really loved thefit here for a conversation, because many of our clients are dealing withthis and I know my need. A listeners are as well yeah thanks, Yeah Matt isreally great for him to connect us and to sort of have the division to seethat, but yeah I mean the space, I mean going all the way back to you mention.You know that I did a Stenson, sty right and so the thing inside that wasall about winning hearts and minds right winning the hearts and minds thepeople say you know I mean it was...

...popularized during the Vietnam War. Wewant to win the hearts and minds of the people of Vietnam, and I really thinkthat that's kind of the mission here right is for manufacturers to win thehearts and minds of their independent dealers and distributors, and I think Ijust think it's a really important problem. I don't think it's reallybeing addressed effectively by almost anybody, and particularly I mean salesin evermair not covering these particular. You know problem domain,and so we take it really seriously and we think it's really important. That'sgreat, I'm glad somebody's tackling it. So, let's, why don't we kick this offwith the really open ended question what's broken today, like what's brokenin the typical relationship between manufacturers and their dealers withdistributors? Yeah I mean I don't want to pile on, but I mean where do youwant me to start? There are a lot of issues and I think, there's somewhatunderstandable issues, because you know if you're a manufacture and you'reselling through a due. You Know Independent Network of dealers anddistributors. You may have hundreds of independent distributors that areselling your products right and there they're the ones that are a customerfacing, because usually, if you're, if you're a channel sales typemanufacturer, it's usually your predominant. You know way to reach thecustomer and so you're really relying upon these outside partners. But it's abig group of companies, big network of dealers and distributorsthey're spread all over the place, so there's the geographic distributionproblem and then there's just a lot of. I don't know there just isn't a lot oftrust these days between the manufacturers and the distributors, andso you know we're talking about lacking trust. We're talking about inefficienttools that waste time and fundamentally, I think the most core issue is thatthere's a disconnect between like each it's almost like when you're in a badrelationship. Each side does not see the other one's perspective. When Italk to manufacturers- and I say, Hey, what's going on with your dealers, theyhave all these complaints, you know they complain and they say oh ordistributors. You know they're lazy and they don't even want to go to thedealer portal, and you know they don't read the stuff that we send them andall they do is take orders. You know...

...they're, not proactive sellers. Youknow they don't ask the right questions and they just have this list ofcomplaints and then we go and talk to the distributors and they say well:Manufacturers don't care about us they're, just trying to squeeze us onour margin. You know they don't care. What's it and so there's just afundamental, I mean in any relationship. That's important. You need tounderstand the perspective of the other party and I think that's the mostfundamental thing. There's lots of other things about inefficiencies andfriction and distance and whatever else, but at its core. I just think these are.These are two ships passing in the night that don't understand the otherperspective yeah, I think that's a good overview. I was actually going to askyou about those two things: distance and friction because those were youknow something that you would. I heard you talk about in our firstconversation, so dive a little deeper. Tell me about distance and friction.What are those all about sure well think about distance. As both you know,physical, you know geographic distance right, so maybe you have you knowdealers all over North America. Maybe you have a whole internationaldistribution network right, but there's time zones there's just there's just alot of distance to cover, but there's also that kind of emotional andrelationship distance right. It's just like you know. Maybe I mean with mywith my parents right. They live five minutes away, but I don't talk to himvery much, and so it's just kind of I feel like there's a distance there,because we just don't communicate that often, and that happens a lot withmanufacturers and distributors. Is They just don't talk very much? So that'spart of what we mean when we talk about distances there. Just isn't there isn'tyou know closeness I mean, and you also may have that occasional friend, it'slike a lifelong friend right, and you only talk to the I it you like this.You only talk to him once a year, but every time you talk to him, you feellike hey. It just felt like yesterday that we talked that's a closerelationship, even though you don't talk that awesome right, but if youknow, but that's why I just think that that's a key thing and it just you knowlacking that closeness and then the friction is when they do talk when theydo have interaction. Let's say the...

...manufacturer sending out the latestproduct materials brochure or just whatever communications. When at thattouch point there can either be efficiency or not. Efficiency and a lotof that has to do with friction, so the friction is kind of all of those littlethings that add up to make a touch point ineffective. So I'm just going totake one that we know really really really well. Let's say that you're amanufacturer and you put some content on to a portal and then the way thatyou let your nine hundred distributors know about that. Is you send out anemail and then at some point down the road you're talking with thesedistributors, and they just never saw the email. They don't realize that thatwas ever put in the portal, and so there was friction there. There wasloss of communication right because they just you thought that you gotsomething out to them, but it was just kind of like throwing it out of theback of an airplane. So it's just kind of. I think those two things are huge.You need to have close relationships and you need to reduce any possiblefriction point that you can yeah well summarized there and we're going toswing back around to what are some of the solutions. In a bit here, but Iwant to keep going on something first, due in our previous conversation Tom,you reference to Harvard Business Review, article dating all the way back,one thousand nine hundred and ninety six about the sustained success ofheavy equipment, manufacture, Caterpillar, a name that everybodyknows it was titled, Make Your Dealers Your partners and was written by cats.Former CEO and I think this this article is ever green in the sense thatit contains so many insights that hold true even twenty five years later. So Iwas curious. What are some of your takeaways from this particular piece inregard to the necessity of building and nurturing exceptional relationshipswith your dealers and distributors? I'm really glad that you brought up thatarticle, because I think anybody who's listening to this or watching it whosells through an independent. You know dealer and distributor network, nowwe're speaking directly to those people. If you have not read this article, youneed to make your dealers, your partners, and I, I think, there's a lotof really good tactical guidance in...

...terms of how to develop a strongprogram with your dealers and distributors and caterpillars a model amodel for this I mean they and and what's amazing in the article is thatyou know the the TNC EO talks about how this was a strategic advantage for them.They saw as a strategic advantage, and I think, that's the biggest takeawayfrom the entire article and it's a deep article, and it has a lot of specificrecommendations. If you want to, you, know, have a better and stronger dealerand distributor network, but the biggest takeaway was that theirperspective was that their dealers were could be a strategic advantage and thatthey could use the close relationships with their dealers and the dealers,knowledge of customers, because right they stated the fact that we dependupon our dealers. You know our dealers know our customers in fact, thors aquote from the article. Our dealers know our customers better than we everCook Right. Things like that. So they're respecting their acknowledgingtheir dealers and then they're doing everything they can to support them.But again, all through that Lens that are dealers, I mean her from theirperspective because they have dealers can be and are a strategic advantage ifwe leverage them with you know: Closeness almost like a level ofintimacy. We involve them in our IT infrastructure. In our training systems,we actively solicit feedback from them about what's working, what are thecustomer saying, and so I mean I just don't think there is a better singleexample of good thinking on this issue than that particular Article Yeah. Youknow one thing you mentioned there Tom that I think really resonated with me.Is this idea that you know your dealers, your distributors? These are the oneswho are physically speaking with your customers, they're hearing the wordsfrom those people's mouths, and we can make all the assumptions we want aboutwhat our customers care about and what products they want and how they want tobe communicated with, etc. But when you...

...know when you can go and just talk tothe people who are interfacing directly from them and gather those insights, Imean not only is that going to be a way to help you figure out how to betterserve them and how those insights can affect R nd. But you know it's going toplay in your marketing and sales strategy and the content you create andlike it just touches so many different aspects of your business, and all ofthis is at your finger tips. Frankly, so I think meaning on those people tobring those insights back to you and having the strong elout relationshipwith them is just so important that it's completely huge a thousand times.Yes to what you just said Joe- and I think also that it's important just toadd here that, because you know, when you think of the of the sort of youknow the value chain right, you have the manufacture and then you have thedealers in the distributors, and then you have the customer. I think it'sit's an important realization at some point to say that the manufacturershould view the dealer and distributor as the customer right, because that'swho they're trying to convince right and then the dealers and distributorsare the ones that are interfacing with the customer almost exclusively. Butit's slightly different because they are your customer and you have to takecare of them. But they are also a strategic lever for your business. Andso it's not like you can just treat them like your best customers, becausethat would kind of not work exactly. You have to treat them like a VIP sortof strategic customer. That opens you up to other channels of business andother markets, and so I think it's just kind of a little bit of a little bit ofa distinction. But I mean I just. I just have to say that when you talk toa manufacture and- and you kind of gleam from the manufacture that howthey view their distributor relationships is as annoying middle menthat could almost just be cast aside and hey. I've actually heard thisseveral times within the last several months and it's disheartening where I'mtalking to a manufacturer- and I asked them if they sell through dealers anddistributors, and they say you know...

...what we used to do, but we found it tobe so problematic and so unprofitable that we just cut out that entire salesnetwork and we've decided to go direct and that stands in such stark contrastto what the H br article says, because in at the Caterpillar Co hespecifically mentions this question. He says sometimes people ask me: wouldn'tit be more profitable and in some ways easier to go direct to your customersand not to sell tour dealers, and his quote was. I would rather cut off myright arm than not sell through dealers becausewe value them that much there's a powerful quote, yeah totally. Thatreally blew me away. So when I hear people say, Oh, let's cut out thedealers and distributors, I'm like look man, you got to go, read that articleand think about what you need to do differently, no kidding well Tom. Let'sget tactical for a minute here. I'd like to hear in terms of salesenablement with your distribution network, what are some of the mostimportant e things that you believe manufacturers can and should be doingto enable their dealers and distributors yeah totally. So I thinkit comes down to a couple of things I think number one is they have to dothings that increase the level of trust. There's this thing called the trustformula which I only discovered a couple of years ago. You can google itand it's and it's great and it sort of gives you this conceptual model of Hey.If I want to increase trust with people, how do I do that? So you just got it sonumber one as you have to increase trust number. Two is no matter. Whatyou're going to do is you got to make their lives easier right, and so yougot to give them kind of a big, easy button, so any tool any process. Anytactic, any objective that you're ever going to you know unload, is going tohave to be easy to use easy to process easy to. You know deal with because youknow it's just kind of like imagine. I don't know it's just just imagineyou're trying to equip fire fighters, or you know police officers orsomething who are out in the field. You...

...say: Hey we're going to give them allthis crazy tech and stuff, and it's like look they're out on the roadthey're solving real world problems, you better make it pretty easy for themto use from their car or from the fire truck I mean otherwise. You know howare they supposed to deal with some fancy software? But the final point, inaddition to increasing trust and making it easy, the third general pillar thatI would say is that the manufacturer just has to realize that they've got tomake the first move. Because again, if you're in a broken or fracturedrelationship anywhere in your life, then you're just going to eventuallyresentments going to set in and you're just going to think of the other person,not as someone to solve problems with, but as the enemy, and so eventually oneperson in the relationship is it's ever going to be fixed. has to reach out andsay: Look I'm going to take the first move and I'm going to help us fix this,and it's always got to be the manufacturer. That's not the positionwhere the distributes to do that, because strivers taking care ofcustomers and trying to you know trying to make your brand look good. So thoseare kind of be my three things make sure you, it's increasing trust, makesure it's easy and manufacturer should make the first move. Great Advice, loveit. So, let's talk about your product a bit so Bam. You created this toolessentially to a piece of software that addresses a lot of the things we'retalking about now. Can you talk about how Bam fits into this dealer?Distributor sales, enablement picture yeah totally? Well, we started with itback in two thousand and ten because one of our big manufacturing customerswas freight liner trucks and they had a new truck coming online. They don'tthey don't have new trucks come online that often it's every several years,maybe be around every seven or eight years or something, and so they hadthis big launch coming up. But they realized that you know there. Therewere some problems and they really love and value their dealer network, butthey knew that there was some friction with how they got information out. Sowe just a look. You know we talked with them. We collaborated we problem solvedand we just both agreed freight liner and the company that there needed to bean easier, faster kind of almost like...

...instantaneous way to get informationout to them, because you know these are people that are at dealerships orthey're out talking to customers, and so they needed a mobile solution. Andso that's when we came up with the freight liner sales tool on ipad, so itcreated this way. For you know from the manufacturer side to be able to justpublish information at the click of a button, they could just load up someassets into the back end and just hit it publish and everybody instantly getsit, but then also the dealer has a nice way to share that information with withthe customer, and so at that point we thought you know. Oh the fact that it'smobile, the fact that it's always with the sales representatives seems like areally key part of this puzzle and then the more we got into heavy equipmentmanufacturing industrial manufacturing. We just realized that kept being a usecase and most of the companies that do digital asset management to do salesenablement are not focusing on the mobile first kind of idea, they're notfocusing on the mobile experience, but that's where these people consumecontent or they're. Having a conversation with a customer in thecustomer, ask a question and the REP needs to be able to quickly get thatinformation instead of having to wait for a couple of days, and so that'sreally kind of where we sort of came up with this idea of it needs to be mobile.It's got to be in the person's pocket, that's the way to reduce friction andthen from there. We also need to have back and Admin to be able to easilypublish, but that's really how we came up with the original idea of thesolution right just to make it. You know again just to kind of break itdown and summarize to make it easy for admins or marketing people at themanufacturing company make it easy for them to organize, manage and publishinformation and extremely easy for the dealer or distributor Rep to access andshare the content wherever they are, so that was just kind of like that was thebasic and basic sort of way. We approached it. It's great really smartsolution like what's the response been so far, it's been really good. I mean I,you know. I think there are a couple of...

...interesting sort of challenges in thespace. In terms of you know, I think I think there's this kind of title waveof change, that's coming and we're still in the early part of it in termsof the entire the entire market, because sales reps- it's not reallygoing to be as much of a gradual shift, but there's a lot of these sales repsthat are kind of they've, been doing it for twenty thirty years, right andthey're, just about to kind of retire or kind of move on, and so there's ait's beginning. But there's going to be this huge generational shift in sales,reps they're, actually selling this equipment, and we know from talking tomanufacturers and distributors that when the new people come in, who are intheir you know, early ties or whatever they come in and they say you know whenthe training starts, they just say: Hey where's, my mobile AP. Just I want mymobile AP with push notifications to keep me informed of all this stuff andso and so it's coming, you know I mean some of the definitely our customershave been have been using our platform really well and they, like it. That'scool you kind of started to answer my next question, which was you know. Whyis this new way of supporting your distribution network, especially todigital technology, so important at this moment in time? Anything you'd addto that yeah I mean. I do think that just sort of I mean it. So soabsolutely my last answer. So generational shift with people, butthen also, I think that the manufacturing industry, of whether it'slike more be to be kind of mean it's Olly to be, but whether it's industrialor whether it's machinery and kind of big iron and all that kind of stuff. Ithink that this is an industry that, quite frankly, it's been slow movingright. It's been, I mean everybody you know went who who talks about the endof they say wow. This industry is like way behind. In terms of you know, it'sMarta and it's other stuff like that, and so that's kind of just one of theyou know. One of the other things that I'm beginning to see is the executivesand everybody's becoming they're just becoming more open minded, I guess tonew ways of solving old problems right and it's kind of like you know, I useall the language like you know. Some of...

...these lines, like you, can't make achocolate cake with a vanilla cake recipe and what got you here won't getyou there. You know what I mean it's like. If you're not happy with yourstatus quo, then you have to do something different and you can eitherdo something different that you know it is. I is another of the set of falsebeliefs that I have to try to dispel when I'm selling, which is you knowthat, like Oh, it's a technology, oh it's an APP it's going to take twelvemonths or oh, it's an IT project. So it's going to cost. You know a hundredand fifty thousand dollars. I mean there's all these beliefs that peoplehave based on what they have scarred issue: Mental Scar Tissue from allthese it projects in the past, and so when they find say oh you'reapproaching. This is a SASS solution. You know, oh it can, you know, be upand running within sixty days or even faster. You know. Oh, it's doesn'treally cost that much and so, and so those are just a lot of things, but Iam seeing the market change that the readiness for is going to sound, verystrange, but the readiness for simpler solutions that are lighter weights andmaybe a little bit more. You know I mean we're, not a sledge hammer, we'rea scalpel, you know, and so somebody's got to be willing to pick upthe scalpel and use it and say you know we can. We can apply this thinking andwe can apply this solution to a specific set of problems and we cansolve them quickly and effectively, as opposed to you know. I was talking tosomebody the other day who basically didn't want to move forward with anyproject that didn't have a native hubs. Integration, and it's like I get thatyou know you want one ring to rule them all. You want one totally trackableperfectly intact system from soup to nuts, but on the other hand, I've alsobeen there as the person buying those tools, and I know that sometimes it'sbetter to have a solution that doesn't necessarily integrate with every othersystem and have it solved the problems that it solves at an a level ratherthan have something that integrates into your whole flow and solves thoseproblems at a sea level. Yeah. I...

...completely agree with you. I meanthere's one ring to rule them all. Is I like the Lord of the Rings ReferenceFirst of all, but I mean you're right. I think it's something that I follow ininto that trap myself over the course of my career and and you kind of cometo learn. Sometimes you've got a, maybe not a simple problem, but a veryspecific problem to solve, and there are tools to do that. I think it'sbecoming more and more of the case. So I, like your perspective there I meanI'd, be curious. If I can ask you a quick question, yeah fire away, so youmentioned, I mean you work with a lot of you know with a lot of you know. BobManufacturers, and you kind of mentioned- mention sales enablement. AI think you may. You may be a little bit more in the industrial space and wework a lot with. You know big machinery, and you know, farm equipment andconstruction equipment and commercial, trucking and stuff like that. But doyou see a lot of these same problems in you know in the type of companies thatyou help yeah? Absolutely. I think the problem is pretty universal in thesense that when somebody who is responsible for selling your productfalls outside the walls of your organization like for one, you justlose some control. You don't always have full transparent into what thoseconversations look like unless you're actively seeking that stuff out fromyour distribution network. You know, I have one client who you know they weretrying to help them, connect the dots between their marketing activities andthe actual sale, and you know things that I'll hear from them are like. Well,we don't even know who the end user actually is in a lot of cases like wedon't even know who's physically buying and I'm saying well can't you just getthat information from your distributor and like well. It's not that it'sactually, not that simple and so, which you know whether that's true or not. Imean you know, that's not for me to decide, but we're trying to help themhelp them figure that out. But I think, like one of the things we did for thisclient is we got them into a really a conversation where there are probablyten people on the call between people inside their organization and some oftheir their distributors, and we just got them talking and we started to likeyou know and it's frankly they could be...

...doing this, but we're kind of acting asa facilitator in this particular case. So yes, it's. The answer to yourquestion. Is Yes this the things you're talking about right now, I think, aretrue whether we're talking about you know some kind of of o m or value atedreseller, that's building on a piece of equipment and customizing it andselling it and there's a distributor dealer involved, and I a lot of thesetruths are are sort of universal, and I mean that's amazing to hear all thatone of the things that's really interesting in what you just shared isyou know, I've seen the same thing. A lot of the distributors. Don't want toshare their specific customer lists. They don't want us to share theirspecific contact. Their specific. You know relationship details and you knowwhy, because they're worried that the company, the manufactures going tostart selling to them directly and cut them out caterpillar dealers would notneed to be worried about that. You know freight liner dealers would not need tobe worried about that because of the premium gold standard of thoserelationships and of that level of trust, and so that's completelyfascinating. You know, wouldn't it be great to live in a world where theindependent distribution channel would feel would feel so much trust for themanufacturer that it wouldn't matter if all of their customer names andinformation were revealed, because there would never be a threat becausethe relationship would be so strong, that's the world I want to live in forsure, and I mean what's almost ironic about the situation- is that you knowif that trust and transparency collaboration? Is there? Everybody wins,everybody does better. You know the dealer distributed as better. Themanufacturer does better, like it's a team effort here and kind of you know,inviting that open relationship, relationship and, frankly, living withless fear, would probably work in the best interest of everyone involved.That's really interesting! Yeah I mean you know. I've never personally seen arelationship that is more symbiotic at its core than the manufacturer and sortof independent sales network...

...relationship, because without thedealers and distributors, the manufacturer has no one to sell theequipment and without the equipment they have nothing to sell there, you go Tom, really enjoyed theconversation. Is there anything you want to touch on I'm kind of out of myquestions, but I want to open it up to you in case there's anything I didn'task you that you'd like to dive into here. No, I don't think so. I just dothink that it is a it's a really interesting time and the main functionsthat we in er interact with are kind of manufacturing in and say. Excuse memarketing and sales right, so heads of marketing, heads of sales and also thesea sweet. Sometimes the conversation will, you know, will sort of beginthere, but I just think that it is. I just think that it is extremelyimportant for the people in these roles to actively be thinking about what canthey do to improve upon things, because I think I think all these companieshave done such a wonderful job in innovating on their products rightthese these companies make world class products and you work with a bunch ofworld class manufacturing organizations, but they sort of they sort of need torecognize that in terms of their sales and marketing stack- and I think yourparticular customers are farther ahead because they're because they're workingwith you, but in terms of their sales and marketing kind of operations, theirMar Tech. Everything like that, there's so many opportunities, and I just thinkit's really it's really great. For them. I mean so many different things. Thingslike play books right, getting kind of digital play, books out there, whetherit's through Bam or other things, so you're helping the reps know the rightquestions to ask and how to be more of the consultative seller than just thepassive order taker. You know so there's just that, there's so muchopportunity. If companies just get a little bit more, I guess creative andwith a sense of urgency and their problem solving and their innovationgood way to wrap it up. Well Tom, can you tell our audience how they can getin touch with you and also where they can learn more about Bam? The dealerdistribute your software that you've...

...developed yeah hundred percent, so thewebsite is just bam: Sales that Io that we have plenty of stuff on there,including kind of like how you know some customer success stories right sojust kind of relevant stuff. If people want to see you know what what kind ofresults, we also have a lot of block content in Youtube. We have a youtubechannel, that's link a bole and that's like a bone there and, of course I'm onlinked in so just you know Tom Paul and you know, look up damn sales enablementor you know pop art ink, and so I'm out there would love to connect with peopleand just kind of you know just kind of start. A conversation awesome thatsounds great Tom. Thanks again great conversation, Joe thanks. So muchreally appreciate being here and love what you're doing with the with theshow in the podcast. I appreciate that. As for the rest of you, I hope to catchyou on the next episode of the Manufacturing Executive. You've been listening to themanufacturing executive podcast to ensure that you never missed an episodesubscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player. If you'd like to learnmore about industrial marketing and sales strategy, you'll find an everexpanding collection of articles, videos guides and tools, specificallyfor B to B manufacturers at grilla. Seventy SICOT ashlar. Thank you so muchfor listening until next time. I.

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