The Manufacturing Executive
The Manufacturing Executive

Episode · 1 year ago

The Organizational Impact of EOS (Entrepreneurial Operating System] w/ Luke and Joel Wittenbraker


Every company has an operating system that determines how people solve problems, plan, prioritize, communicate, and measure success. Often, an operating system is inconsistent, though, leading to employee frustration and burnout.

In today's episode, I talk with Joel Wittenbraker and Luke Wittenbraker. This father-son duo leads Mactech On-Site, one of the world’s foremost providers of on-site machining services, heat treating services, and stress-relieving equipment.

Here's what we discussed:

  1. What The Entrepreneurial Operating System (EOS) actually is
  2. The six pieces of the EOS pizza pie
  3. The biggest hurdle organizations face in the EOS development process

Resources‌ ‌Mentioned‌ ‌

EOS‌ ‌Worldwide‌ ‌ ‌

EOS‌ ‌Tools‌ ‌ ‌

The‌ ‌6‌ ‌Components‌ ‌of‌ ‌EOS‌ ‌(pizza‌ ‌wheel)‌ ‌ ‌

Traction‌ ‌on‌ ‌Amazon‌ ‌

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It's really your business. Right in the middle of this circle is made up of six components your vision, the data, the process the issues. Welcome to the manufacturing executive podcast, where we explore the strategies and experiences that are driving mid size manufacturers forward. Here you'll discover new insights from passionate manufacturing leaders who have compelling stories to share about their successes and struggles, and you'll learn from B tob sales and marketing experts about how to apply actionable business development strategies inside your business. Let's get into the show. Welcome to another episode of the Manufacturing Executive podcast. I'm Joe Sullivan, your host and a CO founder of the Industrial Marketing Agency guerrilla seventy six. Every company has an operating system, whether it has a name or not. That system is the way a company organizes all of its human energy. It's the way that people in the organization meet, solve problems, plan, prioritize, follow processes, communicate, measure, structure, clarify rolls, lead and manage. It's hard to understand the operating systems of most companies because the leadership teams aren't consistent and how they do the above. This inconsistency leads to poor communication, dysfunction and employees feeling frustrated and confused about what the priorities are. Ultimately, the company never realizes its full potential. These words I just read you are from the opening chapter of a book called what the Heck Is Eos, by Gino Wickman and based on his other book traction, and they're an introduction to his platform, the entrepreneurial operating system, which is known to most as Eos. Today my guests are a father and son duo from a manufacturing organization that's been running eos for a few years now. They're going to break down the components of the system and talk about the impact Eos has had on their organization. So let me introduce the Joel and Luke witten breaker from mactech. Joel wittenbreaker came to Mac Tech in one thousand nine hundred and ninety four with a finance and investment background and, as he'll tell you now, these are his words, not mine, by the way, Joel has managed to make every operational mistake possible, since, fortunately it's a big market and world, and they never quit chasing opportunities. Effort, commitment and passion have kept both Joel and his company, mactech, moving in the right direction. Joel loves the challenge of solving problems under pressure, dealing with sharp people and helping good things happen. Luke whitten breaker is a passionate, strategic entrepreneurial leader looking to become a trend setter in the energy industry. Luke join mactech in two thousand and eleven as marketing director. And as far as Joel and Luke's company, mactech goes, mactech is a leader and development of on site machining equipment and processes, offering standard product supply on a sale or rental basis, specialized tool design and development and full on site staffed contract service to a variety of industries such as oil and gas processing, industrial cutting, subsee decommissioning, power generation, shipbuilding and many more. Joel and Luke, welcome to the show. Thanks for having us. Thanks you you bet. I did my first ever sort of duel interview e episode a few weeks ago, so you're the second ones do in this and I like the dynamic of and we have a father son dynamic going on here too. So will that should be very interesting as well. So excited to get into this. Segret go. Yeah, we'll see. You guys can be the judge. So, guys, I know that both in my world of marketing and your world of manufacturing, Eos, or the entrepreneurial operating system, which is based on the book traction by Geno Wickman, is a fairly wellknown platform. Some listeners right now are probably already using it inside their organizations. Others maybe somewhat familiar or maybe have heard of it, but I'm sure that some right now we're also taking to themselves. Wait, Eyo, what? So I was hoping that you could maybe just start by very quickly describing in your own words what is this whole Entrepreneurial Operating System, or eos thing in the first place? Goo Luk, I mean the EO. What you just said kind of sort of hits the nail on the head for me, because you drop the words system, entrepreneurial operating system, and I'm truly a believer that it is a system to run a business off. And our business has been going for forty years and we just started using eos three years ago. So plenty of people out there can run a business without it and be successful, and we were successful without it, but it's helped us add a system and structure to our business that we never had before. I'm sort of looking at the Eos Pizza Pie, as we call it, that to do the little Italian thing that we've discussed and and it's really your business right in the middle of this circle, is made up of six components, your vision, the data, the process, the issues you have and the people that...

...make up your business, and all of this creates traction, which is the last pizza pie piece in that circle graphic, which are you know, you can dig into it in the book or within this conversation, each of those slices, but they all come together to create results within your business and it's a system that just drives you forward every week, every month, every quarter, every year and just keeps growing. Yeah, good, good overview, Joel. Anything you want to add to that before I don't want to get I want to get into the pizza pie in a second here, but from a hot from my perspective. You know, entrepreneurs and people that are driven in the business world are going to go do their thing and they're going to go to try and create business and but we forgot. We never took the time or whatever to build structure and build accountability. I mean, the biggest thing that I get that we have gotten that. On my view, on a you knows as it creates a real clear accountability and real clear communication path that everybody in your organization knows what that means, and an accountability. Everybody's got organ charts and stuff that shows you who reports to who or whatever, but this tells you what you're responsible for the organization and you owe that to the rest of the people in your organization. And it defines rule sets, all of which are flexible. These are all guidelines is, all which are flexible. And then it drives around a couple of fundamentals, which is you is as a group, need to define what your core values are and those are the tenants that you live by in Your Business and you have to drive everything you do around those within your business. And so if I could point anything, I'd say it's the core values in the accountability and then the rest is nice structures and good disciplines and good record keeping kind of systems of score keeping and stuff. But those are the two things that I've seen the most dramatic impact from right. Well, let's break down the pizza poton. So there's you know, Luke kind of hit very quickly on on what the six components are. There's vision, data, processes, issues, people and traction. You guys want to kind of tag team this one and chip away at what each of these are to make this a more tangible concept to our listeners or sales and marketing manager. The easiest one for me to hit on first, as data score cards measurables, things that many companies probably do but don't take action on. Is what I would put it at. Truth be told, we're having a bad scorecard week this week and I'm already fretting about ID ssing it next week, which is another eos term identify, discuss, solve a problem. So our scorecard has metrics on it that our leadership team views every every week. We have a meeting and we view our score card from a sales perspective. My sales revenue is on there and we watch it weekly and if it's if it's off, we have a weekly goal. If it's off, we try to do something to fix it and I think that's a big mentality change from where we used to be, where it used to kind of be. Yeah, we're tracking this and we're looking at it, and at the end of the quarter you look and say, well, you know, we needed three million dollars in revenue to hit our annual goal. We only made to what should we do now, whereas now it's you know, we got to hit two hundred seventy two K this week in order to hit our annual goal. We hit a hundred sixty K last week. What's up? Let's Fick, let's talk it, let's talk it through the sales team. Do something. Go. You know that's always kind of changing. Is it? Is it? Are we making enough calls? Are we are we doing anything wrong? Was it a slow week? Was it a holiday? was was joe sick, etc. But the data component from watching your business weekly really changes what you do. You got, you got. So have to understand it in the US system that everybody has KPI, that operations team have KPI, did admin people have KP on and everybody is accountable for that. And those will change. I mean we've taken things off our score cards and added new ones, because what you want up there are what are the things that you need to know to make impact with the business. What has a good impact and bad impact? It's not always issues. So because one of the key components who celebrate the winds. I mean you really have to have the vitality and excitement about it. So this is throughout organization and looks just right on stuff that you used to look back at and so kind of say, well, we probably should have done something or maybe next time we'll do this. But it's in your face every every Friday afternoon or every Tuesday morning, whatever your meeting time is, and and it's there. It's great, it's perfect and it's tough. is tough and it's hard. You know, it gets tough when you miss your score cards there to drive your business forward and it gets tough sometimes when you miss it or miss it multiple weeks in a row and you're trying to fix it. But just to end on that data component, Joel will like this. A little father son dynamic, I think is either in the traction book or in a blog post, but...'s the leadership score card. is is your if your CEO, who's sitting below me on this screen, is sitting out a beach drinking Pina colados somewhere and a bottle washes up on the shore with just your scorecard on it. He should be able to look at that, look at those eight or nine metrics and understand how his business is doing without talking to anyone, without picking up the phone, without anything. He should be able to look at eight metrics so we can say my business is doing good, I'm going to keep drinking, or my business is doing bad, I'm going to hop on the next jet home and try to fix something. Yeah, I think that's a really good way to look at it. I love the it just gives you a pulse at all moments. Are you going in the right direction? It's different types of numbers than what you look at in your pnal monthly or at the end of the corner. It's they're like more leading indicators of other problems that we need to fix, burp things that we need to address before the become a major problem. Right. Good. Yeah, exactly, instead of instead of looking back and trying to fix things that went wrong, it's hopefully they are indicator. Good, let's move on to the next piece of the Pie. Well, that's that. So that's that's my piece, I think. So I'm going to clearly steal the vision one, because my role in the EOS program is from what I'm responsible to the organization, from my point of view, from a day to day point of view, is significantly less than when we adopted this. And significantly less doesan mean less important? I hope maybe it is, but I hope it's not. But it's what I'm responsible for operational and that's very little. That's nothing. My job is to be the visionary and that means I really we get back to people. Everybody has a number in order and I'm supposed to think of ten things that can have impact to the organization. My role is to maintain the culturally organization and drive that and my role is to really help be responsible for major impact relationships. What resources of the organization need to do that or can I help personally? So it's really you create this vision about who you are and what you are and what are your core values and what are your core focus and what's the three uniques about Your Business and you make sure you drive that through the organization, that everybody's chairs the same thing. And the tough part when you adopt the Os as you find that in every company has it. You Find People in your organization that don't meet your core values, but you say you know, but he's been here a long time and he's really good to take care of such and such, and your kind of making excuses. But you run the business of based on your vision and your scorecard and your core values and those problems weed themselves out because those people don't fit anymore and New People are gathered around the same deal. So I'm not trying to talk like it's a sorting or weeding process, but it's just cool that three years later, that how many people are totally on board and have the same vision. And so it's really about sharing these there are eight directives, it says in there, and it's about it really ties back to the pizza wheel and stuff like that, but it's warm about getting everybody on board and sharing to open it on communication, which is one of the real tenants that I think the Eos makes it work and it's tough for organization. Is Tough for like soul proprietor. Years are really tight entrepreneurs. It really helps a lot of feel share company data throughout your organisation. We go pretty far. We don't share P and full pl but we share about everything else throughout the organization. So everybody's on board and that's makes of the shared vision. Yeah, I think shared by all sits right into that bullet point of vision and the Joel basically just talked about it. But the biggest part of that is the VTEO, think call it, which is your vision traction organizer, and all it is is a two page document. That's I just pulled it up now because everybody in our company has access to it and I we just created a new one, so I don't. I usually have it printed on my wall right here. I'm always staring at it and everybody's always staring at it and that's a really good thing because all it is is first page is your vision. It's your core values, which everybody in our shop, if you walked up to him, could list off. I like to snap just like that. You know it's it's our core focus, our purpose in our reason for being here in this world. We create solutions using on site innovations. Again, everybody could list that off. Our core target, our marketing strategy, and then it goes into our three year picture. Where do we want to be revenue wise in two thousand and twenty three and what does it look like? How are we going to get there? And we might not do well. We have fifteen things on this list that we think we need to do in the next three years to be this size company in three years and we might do half of those. But these are these are goals were trying to set and achieve to get there. And the next page is is getting digging down deeper.

It's just your traction page, your the t of the VTO. What's your what's our one year plan and what are seven goals for the year that we're going to take on to get there, and those are sales goals, operational goals, administration goals, and then your three month plan, in q one. How are we going to get there? How are we going to succeed in q one to get to our year year league goal? So these aren't this isn't a leadership document that's encompassed between Joel and myself as the sales and marketing leader in our operations manager. This gets launched to everybody and it's public and everybody can look at it at any point in time and say, you know, what does it look like? Well, we need six train metrology operators, which may meet nothing to you, Joe, but maybe someone's looking at that and says, Hey, I just met this guy on site. He's metrologist and he's looking for a job, and all of a sudden now we have an additional one because someone knows that in three years we're targeting and towards looking for someone like that, instead of just keeping all this information in a tight knit leadership team that's public to everybody. Yeah, it's great, great summer, you guys, and that that too will link to it in the show notes. You can find online. We could just google search vision, traction organizer or Vto and you'll you'll find it all over the place. But it's a really great too. It's like a two page business plan, I think. is how Guino Wickman, the author of traction, described it. And if a couple things I really love before we go to the next piece of the Pie. You know, it's takes that that ten year vision where you're kind of dreaming a little bit. You're saying this is where we want this company to be in ten years, or you know, you whether it's ten or twenty or whatever, but ten year target and then you break it all down. It's like okay, in the in the next three years. Now you start get a little more specific and you put you put real revenue and profitability numbers to it, like where do we want to be in three years? And then it starts to get really tangible. You know what's what are we doing this year? What are we doing this corner? What and so, because it's I think it's easy to say this is where we want to be in ten or three years and everybody's like, okay, great, let's do it. But this really breaks down how you are going to get there every single step of the way. It creates accountability for it. So big fan of that tool. Absolutely. And your vision can change. You stated your you just stayed in your ten year pictures, this big vision, and I think any organization or anybody listening should know that that might change a year from now, and it has. It has changed for us. We had sort of big dreams of this adding a bunch of people and creating a bunch of revenue and a year into that plan sort of realized we were we were really happy being sort of a midsized business that makes good money and makes customers happy and sort of shifted our long term plan it was a complete pivot, basically, and in the best sense of the word. So it's really good and the tractions that up allowed us to do that pretty quickly and very, very so we've talked about data and we've talked about vision. The first, you know, to two of the six pieces. Where should we go next? People, people, let's do it. People, Pizza Pot number three, people, right people, right seats, track or EOS or track. I always call it traction instead of us for for whatever reason or two. I'M A tired guy. Attractions. The book, just for clarity for the listeners, is the book that sort of takes you through the whole process of the entrepreneurial option operating system. Are Eos. So, yeah, like me, and you're very bad at reading books. I'm not trying to plug the book, but there's another book called what the Heck Is Eos, and it's much shorter. So yes, it is. Yeah, if you're not a huge fan of reading, you can do that. Our whole agency is currently reading that right now. is as we speak, because after our leadership team is has read it. So yeah, the people component, right people, right seats, and Joel kind of mentioned in the Vision Section, but another slogan that's used a lot is higher and fire around your core values and make sure that you have the right people doing the right job and that the seats associated with your organization structure is built to do what you want it to do. So the really big aspect for us is creating that accountability chart, which, I think I joked with you, Joe, on a previous conversation, as simple as having an org charter and accountability to chart, as they call it, is I'm not sure we actually have. We did have one before we went down this path, but it was updated maybe every other year because some customer asked for it. You know, hey, show us your or chart because we need it for to certify you in our system, or whatever it is, like, oh, shoot, like who still works here? We gotta we got to update it now. So having the accountability...

...chart and truly seeing how, you know, your departments flow and what people are actually responsible for their responsibilities in those seats is a huge aspect making sure that the seat actually does what it's supposed to do and not just have some floating Oh, I I need to higher another sales guy just because or I need a marketing person because I think so. Is something that I think really add some definition to it and I will readily admit that this was probably the most difficult section for me in our EOS traction journey. I didn't think we could do it. I would and I didn't have to do it because I had to write them. I have one person out and one person in the reports to me and I am me and my department, so it's really easy for me. But it was so dawning to say that we're going to have an accountability structure in a written description for every person the organization is and it's not. It good compasses something about their job responsibilities, but it's a lot more than that. It's their commitment to the organization. And and, like Luke said, now we make every decision. When something goes sideways. He said, let's talk about the core values. which which of the core values? Are They not holding up? Why did that cause a problem? And it does. And where to the point now that we pick our vendors based on core values. If they don't adhere to our core value set, and it's going to be a problem, we know it and we fire customers. If you know, we come close to it real recently with biggest project we have going to you know. So like we were uncomfortable with the safety commitment but based on our core values, we just call a meeting and everybody got in that meeting from both sides, and we expressed our concerns and totally appreciate it and I don't think we'd done that prior to because it I don't know, it just changes our whole commitment to each other. And so and this is the right people, right seats is a big Jim Collins deal in his books and it's so valid when, especially when you have the accountability all structure. It's just it's cool. It's very different. Yeah, I agree. I love the right people, right seats thing and thinking about as you create that accountability chart, not who is here right now at the organization and how we're going to find a role that makes sense for them, but instead thinking about where, what structure do we need for this organization to achieve what we're trying to achieve, and do we have the right people and each of those seats? And I think things you'll find our well, this person's kind of in the wrong seat. I mean we saw it recently in our agency where we had someone move, take a horizontal move, and they're now they're operating and you know the dance all and talks about the unique ability, if you guys know if familiar with that, but they're all kinds of names for it. But there's, you know, having people operating within their true skill sets and in a place where they're they're happy and they're creating value for the organization. I think it'll help you find those things that also help you identify. I've seen a few already, having just gotten started with us at our company, where we know there are seats that we don't have a person at this company right now in this seat that we kind of need, and so it helps us make a decision about, you know, some hires that are going to have to be on the horizon here. So yeah, I think it's cool. And you don't make sort of half ask commitments either. You don't say well, which is puts, put this person in this job because it's better than nothing or whatever. Yeah, now, not going to do. If they don't hit the mark, then we're just we're not going to do and it's just like you said. You I mean, the key ingredient is you get people in there doing things that they like to do and things, the more you can drive them into the quadrant things they're good at and things they like to do in that same line with the organization needs man then it just then you get the another gym, Collins term was one of my favor which then you get the fly will rolling. So once you get it moving, then you keep it moving in and things take care of themselves. But it's really cool. A huge aspect of it too, and something that I struggle with. That my I'll give a shout out to our implementer, Joe Paulson, has helped me with is elevating and delegating and making sure people do their job the right people. You've got the right people in the right seats, they can make decisions and do a good job. You don't have to be the puppeteer from the top, marrinet man, getting your hands and everything. And I struggle with that and he continues to has continued to tell me over the years there's no dotted lines on your accountability chart of well, this guy or Gal reports to me, but kind of reports over here. It's like no, where does the information in day to go and who makes that decision. There's what, there's one line and it goes. Everything spiders out into your accountability chart and we don't, you know, we don't have a huge organization, but we have seventy plus people and it it gets big fast and you got to give people the power to make decisions. And you also I have thirteen people on my section of the accountability chart and that might sound like a few to some, but it rows into a lot of conversations and...

...communications pretty fast. When you can delegate that to other people managing and approving decisions and making their own decisions, it really helps absolutely well, we could probably talk about this one all day, but for the sake of keeping it going, let's let's go to whatever is, whatever we're ever want to go down. So we've done data, we've division, we've done people. We got three more pieces of the Pie to talk about here. You want to do issues or process next, we'll take process, because issues is more interesting in that we can save that one. But the chair the process to me, again from the way I operate, the way I am, which is if a shiny thing goes by, I'm going to chase it and always dreaming and others something else going on and here's another big opportunity and I like this guy, he's going to be my friend. Let's hire him and you know that. So it's complete kind of opposite of me. But the process is like the accountability. It was totally dawning to me that we thought that we could document, even though for the last five years I've been preaching process over personality and stuff like that. You know, let's let's let's get the folklore out of it, let's get the history and stuff like that that everybody knows. Get trying to weed that out, something like that. So then you just start documenting everything you do and you don't. It's not telling you to pick up this pin and write it this way and it's not a big picture on the process of WHO's responsible for it and how does it flow. Then work below that. You can at work steps and you know, and work rules and stuff like that, but the general process. And then you get the people just then it ties right back to the people that it buy in and then you get to elevate and delegate him and let those people do the job require to do a job and so that you keep doing the highest value work that you can do. That you can bring the organization. You stay up at the we talked about Joe Paulson's big I know you talked about an accounting firm or legal from you start making the five hundred dollar in our decisions and let other people make the lower decisions. So you need to stay up high and do your job and let the other people do the other things and quick jumping on everything and taking care of it. So processes help you do it and you tie that back to the accountability and corvayus and it's easy. So and it makes a dramatic difference and it will come up exactly. One of the reason I wanted to do this before issues is because that's the fundamental problem with all issues and organization, with ninety plus percent of the issues and organization. When we get to that point I'll explain it then. Sure he took my teaser trailer for moving it from process to issues, because I completely agree. The process component for us has been immensely helpful because you just write down, you basically writing down how you perform for your self and your customers successfully. It's the simple steps, not the not the nitty gritty of this is what has to be done in order to be successful, and it's very easy to point to when somebody doesn't follow it and either retrain or regroup or rethink, or very easy to point to when things aren't working. You can tell. You can when things aren't working. You can ask yourself, while are we following the process, and should the process be changed because maybe the process isn't right. What was my favorite quote from flakes Joels, old old sales who rout Rod, I've friend of ours, is your process is perfectly designed to give you the results that you're getting, and if your results suck, then your process probably sucks. M exactly right, flakes, is Brian Flanagan. Look him up. He's give him a full credit here, not just flakes Bryan. Play again, great motivator, sales trainer. Beautiful. which leads to issues. Yep, number five. Issues. have at it. Issues. If I could make the pizza pie analogy again, this is like your deep dish Chicago style pizza. GUYS, we're getting too close to lunch, lunch here, to talk about pizza. I'm I think I know I'm to be having for lunch now. So anyway, continue. I'm after the new Detroit's now pizza. Is that right? We have talked about that one after the fact. Issues are the biggest issue on this pizza pie chart, because somebody else will tell you, but I'll tell you right now that every company has a lot of issues. Whether you're using EOS or traction or another tool or in and or just running a business, you have issues every week. I will probably say that. So Eos, it has this huge component of bringing those to the surface and talking about them and ID sing them. That you create a list of issues and you IDs it. That's a term that we use day and day out now because of traction, and IDs stands for identify. Identify what the actual issue is, discuss discuss it, lay out the facts, not opinions, but facts of the issue, and...

...solve. The S is for solved. Solve it. What is it? What is the root cause? What cause this issue? What is something we can do to solve it right now? Or, in a more simple term, what is something we can try to do to make it better and see if it solves it? And maybe it goes away next week and we never hear about it again, or maybe it comes back and we ids it again and figure out if we can solve it a different way. This is IDs is the most powerful tool that there is in the whole system, in my view, and it's the hardest one to do well because everybody's predisposed to do things. You bring issues, you bring problems to your meeting, then you already know the answer to but you don't. That's not the way it works. The works is you right now. What's the pain point, just like Luke said. Then you put the discussion up there and you go through everything that. What are the facts? Just throw them out there. Then you pick the one is most relevant to be the root cost. And when you do it like that it works really powerfully and it's hard. You fall back because everybody comes in with you know, that's quade billy done. You whatever it is you predisposed and everybody's like that. So this is something that you grow and get better. I mean this is a tool that you just get better and better at and you find yourself falling back, but I guarantee it, just like Luke said that, and you go back to if you've got your processes and you've got the right people, then the issue that when you get down to the root cause, man man man, the vast majority of the time it's like, you know what, you know, that happened like that because we didn't have a good process, for we not define the process ahead of time, or that person was not fully informed of that process. So it's that or the other side is, why did that happen? Because we didn't follow the process. You may have it, but you don't follow it. So it's it's really simple, you know, and that you spend more time listening about and then you buy consensus. One of the few things that you really have to do by consensus. Whoever's in your meeting to make that decision as who, whatever group or whatever has coming. But we solve problems like this facetoface. Now, so the Luke and I have something that we're button heads about or something that's bothering us about the regnition. We you just you just keep driving and talking about to you get the root cause and everything else is nonsense. Use you worry about that later or okay, I've taken as far as I can. Is there anything else we need to do? No, okay, and then implement something to do. Turned into it. To Do? You know, we hadn't really talked about that, which is coming up. This is a we're really good at segue and this. Yeah, you really are very natural to go right into complete. Anything else to add to the issues before we go to traction her? I just got some of that because it's kind of where I was leading into. But before we before I segued into Joel still but I will just say that issues are the huge Chicago deep dish pizza for me because, like I said, everybody has them, every company has them, every person working in a company has them. We talk about them weekly and I will still say that we probably bury thirty percent of our issues because at the end of the year you go to the big annual meeting and someone's says, God, pisses me off that Joe does this every week, and it's like and and that's like that's just hurting our business and it's well, why didn't you bring that up in January rather than, you know, now it's Oh, it's December now. It's just frustrates me. And so there's there's still those underlying things in our organization, but the fact that we bring up seventy percent of them now and talk about it, I think it's a great thing and I don't think. I don't think anybody's ever going to be a hundred percent perfect because things tick you off or Piss you off or just aren't big enough of a problem to just deal with when they probably should be dealt with anyways. Just kind of comparing it to by compared to anything. It's if anybody listening to this podcast is married, you know you have your you have your issues with your spouse or your family and you the big ones you you talk through and some of the other ones you just kind of let boil over and get up. That about but the I think the successful marriages and relationships talk about important issues that bother them and try to fix them. And the same could be said for companies out there. Yeah, I think that's I think that's that's it might not hurt you now, but you're going to crash and burn a year from now or three years from now because you didn't solve something or just let it slide, or someone's going to leave your company that you didn't want to leave, or someone's going to competitors going to take something from me because you're not addressing something. You know. I mean that's that's something that I'll give ourselves a big Poun on the back and Luke's been a big driver and it's we have a system that flags issues. I mean if something goes wrong, it gets noted and it's it has to be presented to whatever group, whether it's operations, Admin, sales, it has to go to that group and it has to come back and handled some way or affection and and you want to do that. But Man, don't get there. Don't get the impression that this thing is strict set of rule sets, because it's designed for entrepreneurs and this... a deal. Gino Wickman just saw that, like successful companies, the real successful companies had certain things in common that they handled in a certain way, and so that's what these things are all about. They're really good because you don't want to lose that that challenge spirit, that go try something new spirit and stuff like that, because you know, some of your processes might be simple as like turn the guy loose with a box of crayons and will make him draw a picture. You don't tell him what to draw, just give them to give them the freedom. That might be your process. You know, I think one very important factor for anybody listening as that issues is not a negative word to it's not a bad thing at all. and and sometimes issues are informational or positive things. You know, I got I got an issue. I got my box of crayons out night, invented this new thing I don't like. What do you guys think? Yeah, let's talk about it and maybe throw it into the system. So it's going to be opportunities as much as there are problems in your organization. Issues can easily sound like a negative word, but it should never be construed as tattling on someone or telling or pulling in an issue because something bothers you should be addressed rather than just hoping that it goes away. We still I mean we're three and a half years into it or something like that, and we're still have to deal like well, I didn't want to raise that, I just took care of it. It's easier for me to just handle it. Stuff my God like man, that just that just riches everything. Don't do that anymore. So we go to the traction, which is the tieme right from issues. And the deal about issues is whether you talking about it, says rocks on this little pith that I'm looking at rocks and meetings, and then those are two components. So you have scheduled meetings on a scheduled time frame, generally weekly. The leadership team meets once a week. You meet at the same time for the same duration with the same set agenda, and then you that's the way everybody in the organization should generally meet. Our operations team meets at a specific day every week, at a specific time, with the same agenda, the fancy and me and that's where you start to and it can't go over and being on time is everything. If you're late, you are cheating everybody else in the organization, certainly in that meeting. So it gets stricten and it becomes something that that I was a real anti meeting guy, but I really look forward to it. It's good. So you have me any specific time and you deal with the things and you deal with your scorecard every meeting and everybody's got KPI that they're looking at work with. The data and issues or things are what you're taking care of and rocks are big things that you have to do. It's a major import items to your group, your section, your organization. That and those you can't get that done in a week right. So that's a ninety day process. Sometime and next ninety days, I'm going to do this for the organization. I'm going to build a new such and such, I'm going to have a prototype, I'm going to write a procedure for this or something like that. Something is of consequents, and I'm going to produce a podcast. Yeah, exactly, exactly so. And then whatever is smaller than that, which is how you handle most of the IDs when you have the solve equation. Are To do is and so you just delegate to do it's okay, Joe, we found out that. You know, you're not flipping your lights off every night. So I need you to commit to flat turn your lights off every day or get susie delegate it. Gets Susie to turn your lights off and you leave every night. Doesn't matter. So to do is, you're just the action items. That's do. And the next week those two do is are they're not just handing it out, saying, Luke, you go do this, jolly this, Joe Do. Then they were written down and the next week, when you come to the meeting, you like well, Louke, did you turn your lights out every day? No, I didn't do that. No, I did or you say done, and if you didn't get it done, you usually get one good out of jail card free and it's like, okay, you got another week. Can you get it done in the next week? Yeah, I can't. Okay, I'll do it and you commit to so just a level of commitment and this is when you've got this is that I like to talk about it in the book and our integrator, our implement or, talks about truction. This is the park that's on the road. This is a park that gets the fly will going. This is the momentum. This is the quote traction that makes Your Business really rock and roll. So this is this is this is where you tie it all together and it's fun, it's a good deal. This is when you really make things happen. You know, we gorilla. We four or five years ago. We hired an outside consultant who did a great job for us and brought elements of the US process into things we were doing. But we committed back around the beginning of Q for that to last year, to to doing traction pure and we sort of kicked it off in December and so we're just kind of up and running with it now. But what I really love about these what what's called the L ten meeting, which is what we're describing right now. For us...'s thirty am to ten am every single Tuesday morning, and the some of the pushback I had and my business partner had on this whole traction process like four years ago and we were thinking about doing is it's like it's too many meetings, too much time spent meeting. But what I have learned already from we've literally done three or four of these l ten meetings this year. We are accomplishing so much in these meetings and so much time is actually being saved because we're all on the same page talking through this stuff. You know, a majority of that ninety minute meeting is spent on the ID saying, like going through that issues list and your prioritize of the most important issues and then you go through that IDs process. We identify them, you discuss them and you solve them and you walk out of there with solutions. All those things that things can't that can't get solved, you assign it to do for somebody to work on it offline, and so I think it's one of the biggest probably hurdles people are going to have when they look at this process. They're going to say it's too much meeting, we don't have time to do all these meetings. You will save time. I can I've been doing this for a month only and I can promise you already that that's going to be the case. There's a slight contrary tale that it from our experience, and so I assume it happens elsewhere, is that you can do meetings, create meetings and you try and seek consensus because that's the way you're alten meetings generally operate on sort of an attitude of consensus that you start seeking consensus for too many things. Sometimes remember that elevating delegating. You remember the spirit that got you to what you were, which is you know you're out there swashbuck coming and women. So he you can tie yourself up a little bit if you're not careful and stuff like that. But the way out of that trap is we'd raise it in an l ten meeting and say I've got too many meetings, and then you would sort it down and say, well, you're not delegating, so that's kind of solved itself. But it's a cautionary tale. To. Yeah, I completely agree with you, Joe, on I have. I already have too many meetings, but my sales out ten and my leader I'm in too. I'm in too L ten's because I high lead my sales team and I'm in. I'm on the leadership team. So that's three hours of my week right there and sort of a little bit of kind of thinking and planning before and after. But, like you said, same paid goes a long way to saving you time the other thirty seven hours of the week, or however many hours I work. I think it's also kind of interesting to point out why they're called L ten's. Yeah, as I joe, kind of segued into that on the fact that you're getting valued out of the meeting. I pulled up our agenda here. I guess I'll start with the end. At the end of every meeting you conclude and you go over here to do so and you say got it, and that sounds really weird but it works because people have if I say, Joe, I need you to turn your lights off this week, got it, Joe says got it. Got It. So, but now I'm everybody, everybody on our meeting knows that Joe committed to doing that. So that sounds kind of Corny and cheesy, but it goes a long way to people saying I'm going to do this this week and you guys are going to hold me accountable, and next week when that person shows up and hasn't done it, you kind of get the evil eyes stare and you know they're going to get it done the next week. So there's a lot of it kind of there. But the conclusion you had. You go through your two doos and you you end with rating the meeting one to ten, and that's on how the meeting was run, the value you got out of the meeting, and your goal is to have a meeting that is a ten out of ten every time. If you have a ten, you just say ten. If you have anywhere between one through nine, you give a little chip at what what can we do to make the meeting better? I give this meeting at eight because I showed up late to this this podcast meeting. If I do it again, I would show up on time so that I was more conscious to Joe and Joel's time. You got your one get out of jail free pass right, so here use that. But the agenda to an Lten the Joel said. He talked about rocks. Those are quarterly goals that each individual is accountable for. With the agenda is you check in give a personal and a professional best. Takes five minutes to run through all thirteen of the people on my sales team and I can't tell you how powerful that is. It sounds simple and cheesy, but what's your personal best from last week and what's your professional best from last week? And I talked to most of my team throughout the week, but it really gives me a chance to learn about them as people. You know, im my daughter learned to play guitar, or you know my daughter took her first steps. So or I got a cheeseburger, you know. So they that personal best range from, you know, I went hunting, or I did this all right, sat around and watch TV all weekend and that was just great. So it's a it truly is a great way to continue to get a personal insight into your employees and people you manage. I think it's absolutely a way to build the whole system purposely builds camaraderie and closeness and openness in...

...your organization. It's up it does, because you you're naked in those meetings. Sometimes, man, you just you've made mistakes and you have to own up to him, to your cohorts, your partners, and you make commitments and, like Luke says, I mean you started that meeting. Sam, like you know, I had the most wonderful weekend doing such and such. It's a personal to do so I think it's this whole system creates just in a spree, to Corp and and openness and attitude in the organization. If you do it right, it's fantastic. It's really helpful. Because I'm bad summarizing, I'll just run through the agenda. There's the check in let's just talked about. Then you go over your score card. Any things off track, you put it on the issues list so you can discuss it later in the meeting. You do your rock review, which is everybody's quarterly goals. You talk through them and you ask if they're on track or off track. If they're off track, put them on the issues list. Don't talk about them now and why? You just say I'm track or off track. Go through your two doos. All the to do is to assign last week, ask if they were done. If they're done, they're done. If they're not, I don't know if this is actually Eos, but we give a one week get out of jail free card. But, you know, is it an issue? If it's not done, put on the issues list. You go through your headlines. People. Headlines is what they call it. I in my meeting call it the good, the bad and the ugly because I'm a big Clint Eastwood Fan and just you know, good news bad news from last week are really ugly news. That needs to hit the issues list from from every person on the meeting, not just the leader. And then you get to the bulk of the meeting. Thirty minutes on my sales meeting as ID yes, so all of these issues talked about. The people might not. You know, people come not wanting to bring issues. They bubble up in these headlines and score card and segue section and end up on your issues list. And you might have three and spend thirty minutes solving three or ten minutes aving three. You might have fifteen and spend thirty minutes solving the seven most important ones because you might not get to them all and you just on. The time runs out. The time runs out and you conclude your meeting and if those issues are important next week, you solve them then, because you spent you spent the thirty minutes fighting the fires that you need to solve and the other ones either aren't important enough to solve right now or the next week you bring them back up. And so one's like that's not really an issue anymore and you're like, all right, problem solved, it went away. HMM. It's really cool. It really keeps you focused on doing what's the most important and stuff like that. So you can have twenty things, but you've got three rocks are right in your face and six to Doos or whatever. That's all you get to work about. You you can't get distracted with the other stuff and say I didn't get to that, because you've already told the world that those are your priority. So it makes the productivity is pretty substantial when you get it working right. That's great. Well, guys, I want to put a wrap on this episode in a couple minutes here, but can you finish by just telling me what impact, if you had to boil it down to you know a few things, what impact has doing this process? You know, running eos inside of Your Business for a few years now had on your organization Red Look, because you're going to clean. Life stole your stuff. If I go first, I think els has traction. Has Truly Eos has created traction in our organization. That's I'll be the cheesy one that says that, but we are driving so much more momentum than we would have had because we have all the pieces of the Pie we just discussed, which some are very simple and some artists, as simple as they seem when you start to do them. We're driving revenue growth. As the sales manager, that's the easiest one to point out. We've grown revenue through using traction. I think it's brought us closer together as an organization and just have people that understand what we want to do and where we're going and care about the business and where mactech gear with pride because they like working for this organization. I think it's allowed us to truly create core values and share those with our employees and have people that want to work here and want to be a part of I mean I I'd tend to call this a team rather than business or group of employees, and that's people that want to be part of the mactech team and I think we've created that environment with this system and it's paid dividends for us with keeping people, retaining people, finding new people that want to help grow this business and have success in their own paycheck and account because of that. Bigots, those are great and I would agree with Luke especially. I think it's it's driven mactech brand dramatically over the last couple of years throughout our organization and we're spelling it to the rest of the world as well. I just have to say that it also it makes you really understand both the people involved in your organization and what they do in the sectary. So you come to really understand what your strengths and weaknesses and how powerful it is. So in that case, if you're good at it, then you focus that, you know, you find the market opportunities that tie into...

...wear your strengths, that have the right margins or whatever, and you can drive that direction rather than, you know, I used to run this business which, like I just told people, what do we do? Say What we do? Stuff for money. You know, somebody's got some money, we'll do it for him. Kind of doing. That doesn't work when you get a certain size and stuff. So I think it's about focus. I think it's about community. I think that's a word that I like a lot. I think I could calls it a team. I think we have a real community and I think that includes our customers, to you know, and and our vendors and stuff like that, and we reach out and it's just honest and open and that's that's the real horse power. I mean there's a lot of rules and sets and guidelines and stuff like that, but you know, you get everybody pulling the same direction, then you get a lot of you get a lot of good stuff happening. Open and honest is a big is that a is that a you know's term or a Joe Paulson term? I don't know, but it's one that we lived by and it's one that I can't tell everybody enough times. Good about as powerful as it gets being open and honest with your employees in your business. I'm looking, I'm looking at our Taddiano Pizza Pie here and your data. You're open. You're sharing your data with your employees in yourselves on keeping your score, caruard your process. You're open and honest about how you do things. There issues. Obviously, you're open and honest with the issues that are bugging you or holding you back or keeping you from being successful. Your people. You're open and honest about hiring and firing and having the right people in the right seats and your vision. Eight questions shared by all the vto we talked about. You're open and honest. You're telling everybody in your organization where you're going to go and how you're going to get there. All of that creates drum roll, track tract action. Exactly right. That's that's a great description. You she get like five cents every time I say it on this podcast. Or what? Everybody take a shot? Yeah, like they can work work out a deal with EOS worldwide. You know, seems atter to me. If they knew. Yeah, I'm sure they'll come up with why we broadcasts. Your blog is well, guys, this was awesome, great conversation to really appreciate you doing this. I was hoping you could tell our audience the best way to get in touch with you and where they can learn more about mactech marketing. Guys. Macnet on sitecom mactech on sitecom right, and Mac tech is spelled M acte h correct well, and sie the list that the show notes as well. See you can click through and see what these guys are doing. Really impressive the way you guys are running your organization. I think that's probably a parent to everybody after having listened to this episode. So congrats on what you've been able to accomplise. I mean, yeah, it's more so than getting business. We enjoyed talking to other businesses and people that do things differently or, you know, working together with second what am I like? Partner businesses that just our entrepreneurial or looking for growth in nature of something we always enjoy doing. And even I think I'm a big proponent, and I don't know you you are, because you have this podcast, of just people learning from each other and finding fun thing ways at growth and business and having a little bit of fun, like while you working do your day job. Yeah, I agree, that's totally the one. If I have a closing piece of advice is if you're going to consider do the Os, you read the book or read the what the heck of the Os? Talk to people who have done it. But if you're gonna do it, man, go all and get in, get into water, don't think you can kind of Wade into it and doable to the time we did that and we learned how to do some meeting stuff. But you really want, if you really want the impact. It's painful and it's long. It takes a while to get there that sometimes, but man, jump in that pond. It's a good one, good advice, and I'd agree from my experience so far. So Joel Wittenbreaker, Luke wit and breaker. Look them up on Linkedin, look at mactech on Sitecom to see what they're doing and guys, thanks for doing this today. I really appreciate it absolutely. Thank you. Thank you very much. Awesome, you bet. As for the rest of you, I hope to catch you on the next episode of the Manufacturing Executive. You've been listening to the manufacturing executive podcast. To ensure that you never miss an episode, subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player. If you'd like to learn more about industrial marketing and sales strategy, you'll find an ever expanding collection of articles, videos, guides and tools specifically for BTB manufacturers at gorilla seventy sixcom learn. Thank you so much for listening. Until next time,.

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