The Manufacturing Executive
The Manufacturing Executive

Episode · 11 months ago

The Organizational Impact of EOS (Entrepreneurial Operating System] w/ Luke and Joel Wittenbraker

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Every company has an operating system that determines how people solve problems, plan, prioritize, communicate, and measure success. Often, an operating system is inconsistent, though, leading to employee frustration and burnout.

In today's episode, I talk with Joel Wittenbraker and Luke Wittenbraker. This father-son duo leads Mactech On-Site, one of the world’s foremost providers of on-site machining services, heat treating services, and stress-relieving equipment.

Here's what we discussed:

  1. What The Entrepreneurial Operating System (EOS) actually is
  2. The six pieces of the EOS pizza pie
  3. The biggest hurdle organizations face in the EOS development process

Resources‌ ‌Mentioned‌ ‌

EOS‌ ‌Worldwide‌ ‌ ‌

EOS‌ ‌Tools‌ ‌ ‌

The‌ ‌6‌ ‌Components‌ ‌of‌ ‌EOS‌ ‌(pizza‌ ‌wheel)‌ ‌ ‌

Traction‌ ‌on‌ ‌Amazon‌ ‌

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It's really your business. Right inthe middle of this circle is made up of six components your vision, thedata, the process the issues. Welcome to the manufacturing executive podcast, wherewe explore the strategies and experiences that are driving mid size manufacturers forward. Hereyou'll discover new insights from passionate manufacturing leaders who have compelling stories to share abouttheir successes and struggles, and you'll learn from B tob sales and marketing expertsabout how to apply actionable business development strategies inside your business. Let's get intothe show. Welcome to another episode of the Manufacturing Executive podcast. I'm JoeSullivan, your host and a CO founder of the Industrial Marketing Agency guerrilla seventysix. Every company has an operating system, whether it has a name or not. That system is the way a company organizes all of its human energy. It's the way that people in the organization meet, solve problems, plan, prioritize, follow processes, communicate, measure, structure, clarify rolls,lead and manage. It's hard to understand the operating systems of most companies becausethe leadership teams aren't consistent and how they do the above. This inconsistency leadsto poor communication, dysfunction and employees feeling frustrated and confused about what the prioritiesare. Ultimately, the company never realizes its full potential. These words Ijust read you are from the opening chapter of a book called what the HeckIs Eos, by Gino Wickman and based on his other book traction, andthey're an introduction to his platform, the entrepreneurial operating system, which is knownto most as Eos. Today my guests are a father and son duo froma manufacturing organization that's been running eos for a few years now. They're goingto break down the components of the system and talk about the impact Eos hashad on their organization. So let me introduce the Joel and Luke witten breakerfrom mactech. Joel wittenbreaker came to Mac Tech in one thousand nine hundred andninety four with a finance and investment background and, as he'll tell you now, these are his words, not mine, by the way, Joel has managedto make every operational mistake possible, since, fortunately it's a big marketand world, and they never quit chasing opportunities. Effort, commitment and passionhave kept both Joel and his company, mactech, moving in the right direction. Joel loves the challenge of solving problems under pressure, dealing with sharp peopleand helping good things happen. Luke whitten breaker is a passionate, strategic entrepreneurialleader looking to become a trend setter in the energy industry. Luke join mactechin two thousand and eleven as marketing director. And as far as Joel and Luke'scompany, mactech goes, mactech is a leader and development of on sitemachining equipment and processes, offering standard product supply on a sale or rental basis, specialized tool design and development and full on site staffed contract service to avariety of industries such as oil and gas processing, industrial cutting, subsee decommissioning, power generation, shipbuilding and many more. Joel and Luke, welcome to theshow. Thanks for having us. Thanks you you bet. I didmy first ever sort of duel interview e episode a few weeks ago, soyou're the second ones do in this and I like the dynamic of and wehave a father son dynamic going on here too. So will that should bevery interesting as well. So excited to get into this. Segret go.Yeah, we'll see. You guys can be the judge. So, guys, I know that both in my world of marketing and your world of manufacturing, Eos, or the entrepreneurial operating system, which is based on the book tractionby Geno Wickman, is a fairly wellknown platform. Some listeners right noware probably already using it inside their organizations. Others maybe somewhat familiar or maybe haveheard of it, but I'm sure that some right now we're also takingto themselves. Wait, Eyo, what? So I was hoping that you couldmaybe just start by very quickly describing in your own words what is thiswhole Entrepreneurial Operating System, or eos thing in the first place? Goo Luk, I mean the EO. What you just said kind of sort of hitsthe nail on the head for me, because you drop the words system,entrepreneurial operating system, and I'm truly a believer that it is a system torun a business off. And our business has been going for forty years andwe just started using eos three years ago. So plenty of people out there canrun a business without it and be successful, and we were successful withoutit, but it's helped us add a system and structure to our business thatwe never had before. I'm sort of looking at the Eos Pizza Pie,as we call it, that to do the little Italian thing that we've discussedand and it's really your business right in the middle of this circle, ismade up of six components, your vision, the data, the process, theissues you have and the people that...

...make up your business, and allof this creates traction, which is the last pizza pie piece in that circlegraphic, which are you know, you can dig into it in the bookor within this conversation, each of those slices, but they all come togetherto create results within your business and it's a system that just drives you forwardevery week, every month, every quarter, every year and just keeps growing.Yeah, good, good overview, Joel. Anything you want to addto that before I don't want to get I want to get into the pizzapie in a second here, but from a hot from my perspective. Youknow, entrepreneurs and people that are driven in the business world are going togo do their thing and they're going to go to try and create business andbut we forgot. We never took the time or whatever to build structure andbuild accountability. I mean, the biggest thing that I get that we havegotten that. On my view, on a you knows as it creates areal clear accountability and real clear communication path that everybody in your organization knows whatthat means, and an accountability. Everybody's got organ charts and stuff that showsyou who reports to who or whatever, but this tells you what you're responsiblefor the organization and you owe that to the rest of the people in yourorganization. And it defines rule sets, all of which are flexible. Theseare all guidelines is, all which are flexible. And then it drives arounda couple of fundamentals, which is you is as a group, need todefine what your core values are and those are the tenants that you live byin Your Business and you have to drive everything you do around those within yourbusiness. And so if I could point anything, I'd say it's the corevalues in the accountability and then the rest is nice structures and good disciplines andgood record keeping kind of systems of score keeping and stuff. But those arethe two things that I've seen the most dramatic impact from right. Well,let's break down the pizza poton. So there's you know, Luke kind ofhit very quickly on on what the six components are. There's vision, data, processes, issues, people and traction. You guys want to kind of tagteam this one and chip away at what each of these are to makethis a more tangible concept to our listeners or sales and marketing manager. Theeasiest one for me to hit on first, as data score cards measurables, thingsthat many companies probably do but don't take action on. Is what Iwould put it at. Truth be told, we're having a bad scorecard week thisweek and I'm already fretting about ID ssing it next week, which isanother eos term identify, discuss, solve a problem. So our scorecard hasmetrics on it that our leadership team views every every week. We have ameeting and we view our score card from a sales perspective. My sales revenueis on there and we watch it weekly and if it's if it's off,we have a weekly goal. If it's off, we try to do somethingto fix it and I think that's a big mentality change from where we usedto be, where it used to kind of be. Yeah, we're trackingthis and we're looking at it, and at the end of the quarter youlook and say, well, you know, we needed three million dollars in revenueto hit our annual goal. We only made to what should we donow, whereas now it's you know, we got to hit two hundred seventytwo K this week in order to hit our annual goal. We hit ahundred sixty K last week. What's up? Let's Fick, let's talk it,let's talk it through the sales team. Do something. Go. You knowthat's always kind of changing. Is it? Is it? Are wemaking enough calls? Are we are we doing anything wrong? Was it aslow week? Was it a holiday? was was joe sick, etc.But the data component from watching your business weekly really changes what you do.You got, you got. So have to understand it in the US systemthat everybody has KPI, that operations team have KPI, did admin people haveKP on and everybody is accountable for that. And those will change. I meanwe've taken things off our score cards and added new ones, because whatyou want up there are what are the things that you need to know tomake impact with the business. What has a good impact and bad impact?It's not always issues. So because one of the key components who celebrate thewinds. I mean you really have to have the vitality and excitement about it. So this is throughout organization and looks just right on stuff that you usedto look back at and so kind of say, well, we probably shouldhave done something or maybe next time we'll do this. But it's in yourface every every Friday afternoon or every Tuesday morning, whatever your meeting time is, and and it's there. It's great, it's perfect and it's tough. istough and it's hard. You know, it gets tough when you miss yourscore cards there to drive your business forward and it gets tough sometimes whenyou miss it or miss it multiple weeks in a row and you're trying tofix it. But just to end on that data component, Joel will likethis. A little father son dynamic, I think is either in the tractionbook or in a blog post, but...

...it's the leadership score card. isis your if your CEO, who's sitting below me on this screen, issitting out a beach drinking Pina colados somewhere and a bottle washes up on theshore with just your scorecard on it. He should be able to look atthat, look at those eight or nine metrics and understand how his business isdoing without talking to anyone, without picking up the phone, without anything.He should be able to look at eight metrics so we can say my businessis doing good, I'm going to keep drinking, or my business is doingbad, I'm going to hop on the next jet home and try to fixsomething. Yeah, I think that's a really good way to look at it. I love the it just gives you a pulse at all moments. Areyou going in the right direction? It's different types of numbers than what youlook at in your pnal monthly or at the end of the corner. It'sthey're like more leading indicators of other problems that we need to fix, burpthings that we need to address before the become a major problem. Right.Good. Yeah, exactly, instead of instead of looking back and trying tofix things that went wrong, it's hopefully they are indicator. Good, let'smove on to the next piece of the Pie. Well, that's that.So that's that's my piece, I think. So I'm going to clearly steal thevision one, because my role in the EOS program is from what I'mresponsible to the organization, from my point of view, from a day today point of view, is significantly less than when we adopted this. Andsignificantly less doesan mean less important? I hope maybe it is, but Ihope it's not. But it's what I'm responsible for operational and that's very little. That's nothing. My job is to be the visionary and that means Ireally we get back to people. Everybody has a number in order and I'msupposed to think of ten things that can have impact to the organization. Myrole is to maintain the culturally organization and drive that and my role is toreally help be responsible for major impact relationships. What resources of the organization need todo that or can I help personally? So it's really you create this visionabout who you are and what you are and what are your core valuesand what are your core focus and what's the three uniques about Your Business andyou make sure you drive that through the organization, that everybody's chairs the samething. And the tough part when you adopt the Os as you find thatin every company has it. You Find People in your organization that don't meetyour core values, but you say you know, but he's been here along time and he's really good to take care of such and such, andyour kind of making excuses. But you run the business of based on yourvision and your scorecard and your core values and those problems weed themselves out becausethose people don't fit anymore and New People are gathered around the same deal.So I'm not trying to talk like it's a sorting or weeding process, butit's just cool that three years later, that how many people are totally onboard and have the same vision. And so it's really about sharing these thereare eight directives, it says in there, and it's about it really ties backto the pizza wheel and stuff like that, but it's warm about gettingeverybody on board and sharing to open it on communication, which is one ofthe real tenants that I think the Eos makes it work and it's tough fororganization. Is Tough for like soul proprietor. Years are really tight entrepreneurs. Itreally helps a lot of feel share company data throughout your organisation. Wego pretty far. We don't share P and full pl but we share abouteverything else throughout the organization. So everybody's on board and that's makes of theshared vision. Yeah, I think shared by all sits right into that bulletpoint of vision and the Joel basically just talked about it. But the biggestpart of that is the VTEO, think call it, which is your visiontraction organizer, and all it is is a two page document. That's Ijust pulled it up now because everybody in our company has access to it andI we just created a new one, so I don't. I usually haveit printed on my wall right here. I'm always staring at it and everybody'salways staring at it and that's a really good thing because all it is isfirst page is your vision. It's your core values, which everybody in ourshop, if you walked up to him, could list off. I like tosnap just like that. You know it's it's our core focus, ourpurpose in our reason for being here in this world. We create solutions usingon site innovations. Again, everybody could list that off. Our core target, our marketing strategy, and then it goes into our three year picture.Where do we want to be revenue wise in two thousand and twenty three andwhat does it look like? How are we going to get there? Andwe might not do well. We have fifteen things on this list that wethink we need to do in the next three years to be this size companyin three years and we might do half of those. But these are theseare goals were trying to set and achieve to get there. And the nextpage is is getting digging down deeper.

It's just your traction page, yourthe t of the VTO. What's your what's our one year plan and whatare seven goals for the year that we're going to take on to get there, and those are sales goals, operational goals, administration goals, and thenyour three month plan, in q one. How are we going to get there? How are we going to succeed in q one to get to ouryear year league goal? So these aren't this isn't a leadership document that's encompassedbetween Joel and myself as the sales and marketing leader in our operations manager.This gets launched to everybody and it's public and everybody can look at it atany point in time and say, you know, what does it look like? Well, we need six train metrology operators, which may meet nothing toyou, Joe, but maybe someone's looking at that and says, Hey,I just met this guy on site. He's metrologist and he's looking for ajob, and all of a sudden now we have an additional one because someoneknows that in three years we're targeting and towards looking for someone like that,instead of just keeping all this information in a tight knit leadership team that's publicto everybody. Yeah, it's great, great summer, you guys, andthat that too will link to it in the show notes. You can findonline. We could just google search vision, traction organizer or Vto and you'll you'llfind it all over the place. But it's a really great too.It's like a two page business plan, I think. is how Guino Wickman, the author of traction, described it. And if a couple things I reallylove before we go to the next piece of the Pie. You know, it's takes that that ten year vision where you're kind of dreaming a littlebit. You're saying this is where we want this company to be in tenyears, or you know, you whether it's ten or twenty or whatever,but ten year target and then you break it all down. It's like okay, in the in the next three years. Now you start get a little morespecific and you put you put real revenue and profitability numbers to it,like where do we want to be in three years? And then it startsto get really tangible. You know what's what are we doing this year?What are we doing this corner? What and so, because it's I thinkit's easy to say this is where we want to be in ten or threeyears and everybody's like, okay, great, let's do it. But this reallybreaks down how you are going to get there every single step of theway. It creates accountability for it. So big fan of that tool.Absolutely. And your vision can change. You stated your you just stayed inyour ten year pictures, this big vision, and I think any organization or anybodylistening should know that that might change a year from now, and ithas. It has changed for us. We had sort of big dreams ofthis adding a bunch of people and creating a bunch of revenue and a yearinto that plan sort of realized we were we were really happy being sort ofa midsized business that makes good money and makes customers happy and sort of shiftedour long term plan it was a complete pivot, basically, and in thebest sense of the word. So it's really good and the tractions that upallowed us to do that pretty quickly and very, very so we've talked aboutdata and we've talked about vision. The first, you know, to twoof the six pieces. Where should we go next? People, people,let's do it. People, Pizza Pot number three, people, right people, right seats, track or EOS or track. I always call it tractioninstead of us for for whatever reason or two. I'M A tired guy.Attractions. The book, just for clarity for the listeners, is the bookthat sort of takes you through the whole process of the entrepreneurial option operating system. Are Eos. So, yeah, like me, and you're very badat reading books. I'm not trying to plug the book, but there's anotherbook called what the Heck Is Eos, and it's much shorter. So yes, it is. Yeah, if you're not a huge fan of reading,you can do that. Our whole agency is currently reading that right now.is as we speak, because after our leadership team is has read it.So yeah, the people component, right people, right seats, and Joelkind of mentioned in the Vision Section, but another slogan that's used a lotis higher and fire around your core values and make sure that you have theright people doing the right job and that the seats associated with your organization structureis built to do what you want it to do. So the really bigaspect for us is creating that accountability chart, which, I think I joked withyou, Joe, on a previous conversation, as simple as having anorg charter and accountability to chart, as they call it, is I'm notsure we actually have. We did have one before we went down this path, but it was updated maybe every other year because some customer asked for it. You know, hey, show us your or chart because we need itfor to certify you in our system, or whatever it is, like,oh, shoot, like who still works here? We gotta we got toupdate it now. So having the accountability...

...chart and truly seeing how, youknow, your departments flow and what people are actually responsible for their responsibilities inthose seats is a huge aspect making sure that the seat actually does what it'ssupposed to do and not just have some floating Oh, I I need tohigher another sales guy just because or I need a marketing person because I thinkso. Is something that I think really add some definition to it and Iwill readily admit that this was probably the most difficult section for me in ourEOS traction journey. I didn't think we could do it. I would andI didn't have to do it because I had to write them. I haveone person out and one person in the reports to me and I am meand my department, so it's really easy for me. But it was sodawning to say that we're going to have an accountability structure in a written descriptionfor every person the organization is and it's not. It good compasses something abouttheir job responsibilities, but it's a lot more than that. It's their commitmentto the organization. And and, like Luke said, now we make everydecision. When something goes sideways. He said, let's talk about the corevalues. which which of the core values? Are They not holding up? Whydid that cause a problem? And it does. And where to thepoint now that we pick our vendors based on core values. If they don'tadhere to our core value set, and it's going to be a problem,we know it and we fire customers. If you know, we come closeto it real recently with biggest project we have going to you know. Solike we were uncomfortable with the safety commitment but based on our core values,we just call a meeting and everybody got in that meeting from both sides,and we expressed our concerns and totally appreciate it and I don't think we'd donethat prior to because it I don't know, it just changes our whole commitment toeach other. And so and this is the right people, right seatsis a big Jim Collins deal in his books and it's so valid when,especially when you have the accountability all structure. It's just it's cool. It's verydifferent. Yeah, I agree. I love the right people, rightseats thing and thinking about as you create that accountability chart, not who ishere right now at the organization and how we're going to find a role thatmakes sense for them, but instead thinking about where, what structure do weneed for this organization to achieve what we're trying to achieve, and do wehave the right people and each of those seats? And I think things you'llfind our well, this person's kind of in the wrong seat. I meanwe saw it recently in our agency where we had someone move, take ahorizontal move, and they're now they're operating and you know the dance all andtalks about the unique ability, if you guys know if familiar with that,but they're all kinds of names for it. But there's, you know, havingpeople operating within their true skill sets and in a place where they're they'rehappy and they're creating value for the organization. I think it'll help you find thosethings that also help you identify. I've seen a few already, havingjust gotten started with us at our company, where we know there are seats thatwe don't have a person at this company right now in this seat thatwe kind of need, and so it helps us make a decision about,you know, some hires that are going to have to be on the horizonhere. So yeah, I think it's cool. And you don't make sortof half ask commitments either. You don't say well, which is puts,put this person in this job because it's better than nothing or whatever. Yeah, now, not going to do. If they don't hit the mark,then we're just we're not going to do and it's just like you said.You I mean, the key ingredient is you get people in there doing thingsthat they like to do and things, the more you can drive them intothe quadrant things they're good at and things they like to do in that sameline with the organization needs man then it just then you get the another gym, Collins term was one of my favor which then you get the fly willrolling. So once you get it moving, then you keep it moving in andthings take care of themselves. But it's really cool. A huge aspectof it too, and something that I struggle with. That my I'll givea shout out to our implementer, Joe Paulson, has helped me with iselevating and delegating and making sure people do their job the right people. You'vegot the right people in the right seats, they can make decisions and do agood job. You don't have to be the puppeteer from the top,marrinet man, getting your hands and everything. And I struggle with that and hecontinues to has continued to tell me over the years there's no dotted lineson your accountability chart of well, this guy or Gal reports to me,but kind of reports over here. It's like no, where does the informationin day to go and who makes that decision. There's what, there's oneline and it goes. Everything spiders out into your accountability chart and we don't, you know, we don't have a huge organization, but we have seventyplus people and it it gets big fast and you got to give people thepower to make decisions. And you also I have thirteen people on my sectionof the accountability chart and that might sound like a few to some, butit rows into a lot of conversations and...

...communications pretty fast. When you candelegate that to other people managing and approving decisions and making their own decisions,it really helps absolutely well, we could probably talk about this one all day, but for the sake of keeping it going, let's let's go to whateveris, whatever we're ever want to go down. So we've done data,we've division, we've done people. We got three more pieces of the Pieto talk about here. You want to do issues or process next, we'lltake process, because issues is more interesting in that we can save that one. But the chair the process to me, again from the way I operate,the way I am, which is if a shiny thing goes by,I'm going to chase it and always dreaming and others something else going on andhere's another big opportunity and I like this guy, he's going to be myfriend. Let's hire him and you know that. So it's complete kind ofopposite of me. But the process is like the accountability. It was totallydawning to me that we thought that we could document, even though for thelast five years I've been preaching process over personality and stuff like that. Youknow, let's let's let's get the folklore out of it, let's get thehistory and stuff like that that everybody knows. Get trying to weed that out,something like that. So then you just start documenting everything you do andyou don't. It's not telling you to pick up this pin and write itthis way and it's not a big picture on the process of WHO's responsible forit and how does it flow. Then work below that. You can atwork steps and you know, and work rules and stuff like that, butthe general process. And then you get the people just then it ties rightback to the people that it buy in and then you get to elevate anddelegate him and let those people do the job require to do a job andso that you keep doing the highest value work that you can do. Thatyou can bring the organization. You stay up at the we talked about JoePaulson's big I know you talked about an accounting firm or legal from you startmaking the five hundred dollar in our decisions and let other people make the lowerdecisions. So you need to stay up high and do your job and letthe other people do the other things and quick jumping on everything and taking careof it. So processes help you do it and you tie that back tothe accountability and corvayus and it's easy. So and it makes a dramatic differenceand it will come up exactly. One of the reason I wanted to dothis before issues is because that's the fundamental problem with all issues and organization,with ninety plus percent of the issues and organization. When we get to thatpoint I'll explain it then. Sure he took my teaser trailer for moving itfrom process to issues, because I completely agree. The process component for ushas been immensely helpful because you just write down, you basically writing down howyou perform for your self and your customers successfully. It's the simple steps,not the not the nitty gritty of this is what has to be done inorder to be successful, and it's very easy to point to when somebody doesn'tfollow it and either retrain or regroup or rethink, or very easy to pointto when things aren't working. You can tell. You can when things aren'tworking. You can ask yourself, while are we following the process, andshould the process be changed because maybe the process isn't right. What was myfavorite quote from flakes Joels, old old sales who rout Rod, I've friendof ours, is your process is perfectly designed to give you the results thatyou're getting, and if your results suck, then your process probably sucks. Mexactly right, flakes, is Brian Flanagan. Look him up. He'sgive him a full credit here, not just flakes Bryan. Play again,great motivator, sales trainer. Beautiful. which leads to issues. Yep,number five. Issues. have at it. Issues. If I could make thepizza pie analogy again, this is like your deep dish Chicago style pizza. GUYS, we're getting too close to lunch, lunch here, to talkabout pizza. I'm I think I know I'm to be having for lunch now. So anyway, continue. I'm after the new Detroit's now pizza. Isthat right? We have talked about that one after the fact. Issues arethe biggest issue on this pizza pie chart, because somebody else will tell you,but I'll tell you right now that every company has a lot of issues. Whether you're using EOS or traction or another tool or in and or justrunning a business, you have issues every week. I will probably say that. So Eos, it has this huge component of bringing those to the surfaceand talking about them and ID sing them. That you create a list of issuesand you IDs it. That's a term that we use day and dayout now because of traction, and IDs stands for identify. Identify what theactual issue is, discuss discuss it, lay out the facts, not opinions, but facts of the issue, and...

...solve. The S is for solved. Solve it. What is it? What is the root cause? Whatcause this issue? What is something we can do to solve it right now? Or, in a more simple term, what is something we can try todo to make it better and see if it solves it? And maybeit goes away next week and we never hear about it again, or maybeit comes back and we ids it again and figure out if we can solveit a different way. This is IDs is the most powerful tool that thereis in the whole system, in my view, and it's the hardest oneto do well because everybody's predisposed to do things. You bring issues, youbring problems to your meeting, then you already know the answer to but youdon't. That's not the way it works. The works is you right now.What's the pain point, just like Luke said. Then you put thediscussion up there and you go through everything that. What are the facts?Just throw them out there. Then you pick the one is most relevant tobe the root cost. And when you do it like that it works reallypowerfully and it's hard. You fall back because everybody comes in with you know, that's quade billy done. You whatever it is you predisposed and everybody's likethat. So this is something that you grow and get better. I meanthis is a tool that you just get better and better at and you findyourself falling back, but I guarantee it, just like Luke said that, andyou go back to if you've got your processes and you've got the rightpeople, then the issue that when you get down to the root cause,man man man, the vast majority of the time it's like, you knowwhat, you know, that happened like that because we didn't have a goodprocess, for we not define the process ahead of time, or that personwas not fully informed of that process. So it's that or the other sideis, why did that happen? Because we didn't follow the process. Youmay have it, but you don't follow it. So it's it's really simple, you know, and that you spend more time listening about and then youbuy consensus. One of the few things that you really have to do byconsensus. Whoever's in your meeting to make that decision as who, whatever groupor whatever has coming. But we solve problems like this facetoface. Now,so the Luke and I have something that we're button heads about or something that'sbothering us about the regnition. We you just you just keep driving and talkingabout to you get the root cause and everything else is nonsense. Use youworry about that later or okay, I've taken as far as I can.Is there anything else we need to do? No, okay, and then implementsomething to do. Turned into it. To Do? You know, wehadn't really talked about that, which is coming up. This is awe're really good at segue and this. Yeah, you really are very naturalto go right into complete. Anything else to add to the issues before wego to traction her? I just got some of that because it's kind ofwhere I was leading into. But before we before I segued into Joel stillbut I will just say that issues are the huge Chicago deep dish pizza forme because, like I said, everybody has them, every company has them, every person working in a company has them. We talk about them weeklyand I will still say that we probably bury thirty percent of our issues becauseat the end of the year you go to the big annual meeting and someone'ssays, God, pisses me off that Joe does this every week, andit's like and and that's like that's just hurting our business and it's well,why didn't you bring that up in January rather than, you know, nowit's Oh, it's December now. It's just frustrates me. And so there'sthere's still those underlying things in our organization, but the fact that we bring upseventy percent of them now and talk about it, I think it's agreat thing and I don't think. I don't think anybody's ever going to bea hundred percent perfect because things tick you off or Piss you off or justaren't big enough of a problem to just deal with when they probably should bedealt with anyways. Just kind of comparing it to by compared to anything.It's if anybody listening to this podcast is married, you know you have youryou have your issues with your spouse or your family and you the big onesyou you talk through and some of the other ones you just kind of letboil over and get up. That about but the I think the successful marriagesand relationships talk about important issues that bother them and try to fix them.And the same could be said for companies out there. Yeah, I thinkthat's I think that's that's it might not hurt you now, but you're goingto crash and burn a year from now or three years from now because youdidn't solve something or just let it slide, or someone's going to leave your companythat you didn't want to leave, or someone's going to competitors going totake something from me because you're not addressing something. You know. I meanthat's that's something that I'll give ourselves a big Poun on the back and Luke'sbeen a big driver and it's we have a system that flags issues. Imean if something goes wrong, it gets noted and it's it has to bepresented to whatever group, whether it's operations, Admin, sales, it has togo to that group and it has to come back and handled some wayor affection and and you want to do that. But Man, don't getthere. Don't get the impression that this thing is strict set of rule sets, because it's designed for entrepreneurs and this...

...is a deal. Gino Wickman justsaw that, like successful companies, the real successful companies had certain things incommon that they handled in a certain way, and so that's what these things areall about. They're really good because you don't want to lose that thatchallenge spirit, that go try something new spirit and stuff like that, becauseyou know, some of your processes might be simple as like turn the guyloose with a box of crayons and will make him draw a picture. Youdon't tell him what to draw, just give them to give them the freedom. That might be your process. You know, I think one very importantfactor for anybody listening as that issues is not a negative word to it's nota bad thing at all. and and sometimes issues are informational or positive things. You know, I got I got an issue. I got my boxof crayons out night, invented this new thing I don't like. What doyou guys think? Yeah, let's talk about it and maybe throw it intothe system. So it's going to be opportunities as much as there are problemsin your organization. Issues can easily sound like a negative word, but itshould never be construed as tattling on someone or telling or pulling in an issuebecause something bothers you should be addressed rather than just hoping that it goes away. We still I mean we're three and a half years into it or somethinglike that, and we're still have to deal like well, I didn't wantto raise that, I just took care of it. It's easier for meto just handle it. Stuff my God like man, that just that justriches everything. Don't do that anymore. So we go to the traction,which is the tieme right from issues. And the deal about issues is whetheryou talking about it, says rocks on this little pith that I'm looking atrocks and meetings, and then those are two components. So you have scheduledmeetings on a scheduled time frame, generally weekly. The leadership team meets oncea week. You meet at the same time for the same duration with thesame set agenda, and then you that's the way everybody in the organization shouldgenerally meet. Our operations team meets at a specific day every week, ata specific time, with the same agenda, the fancy and me and that's whereyou start to and it can't go over and being on time is everything. If you're late, you are cheating everybody else in the organization, certainlyin that meeting. So it gets stricten and it becomes something that that Iwas a real anti meeting guy, but I really look forward to it.It's good. So you have me any specific time and you deal with thethings and you deal with your scorecard every meeting and everybody's got KPI that they'relooking at work with. The data and issues or things are what you're takingcare of and rocks are big things that you have to do. It's amajor import items to your group, your section, your organization. That andthose you can't get that done in a week right. So that's a ninetyday process. Sometime and next ninety days, I'm going to do this for theorganization. I'm going to build a new such and such, I'm goingto have a prototype, I'm going to write a procedure for this or somethinglike that. Something is of consequents, and I'm going to produce a podcast. Yeah, exactly, exactly so. And then whatever is smaller than that, which is how you handle most of the IDs when you have the solveequation. Are To do is and so you just delegate to do it's okay, Joe, we found out that. You know, you're not flipping yourlights off every night. So I need you to commit to flat turn yourlights off every day or get susie delegate it. Gets Susie to turn yourlights off and you leave every night. Doesn't matter. So to do is, you're just the action items. That's do. And the next week thosetwo do is are they're not just handing it out, saying, Luke,you go do this, jolly this, Joe Do. Then they were writtendown and the next week, when you come to the meeting, you likewell, Louke, did you turn your lights out every day? No,I didn't do that. No, I did or you say done, andif you didn't get it done, you usually get one good out of jailcard free and it's like, okay, you got another week. Can youget it done in the next week? Yeah, I can't. Okay,I'll do it and you commit to so just a level of commitment and thisis when you've got this is that I like to talk about it in thebook and our integrator, our implement or, talks about truction. This is thepark that's on the road. This is a park that gets the flywill going. This is the momentum. This is the quote traction that makesYour Business really rock and roll. So this is this is this is whereyou tie it all together and it's fun, it's a good deal. This iswhen you really make things happen. You know, we gorilla. Wefour or five years ago. We hired an outside consultant who did a greatjob for us and brought elements of the US process into things we were doing. But we committed back around the beginning of Q for that to last year, to to doing traction pure and we sort of kicked it off in Decemberand so we're just kind of up and running with it now. But whatI really love about these what what's called the L ten meeting, which iswhat we're describing right now. For us...

...it's thirty am to ten am everysingle Tuesday morning, and the some of the pushback I had and my businesspartner had on this whole traction process like four years ago and we were thinkingabout doing is it's like it's too many meetings, too much time spent meeting. But what I have learned already from we've literally done three or four ofthese l ten meetings this year. We are accomplishing so much in these meetingsand so much time is actually being saved because we're all on the same pagetalking through this stuff. You know, a majority of that ninety minute meetingis spent on the ID saying, like going through that issues list and yourprioritize of the most important issues and then you go through that IDs process.We identify them, you discuss them and you solve them and you walk outof there with solutions. All those things that things can't that can't get solved, you assign it to do for somebody to work on it offline, andso I think it's one of the biggest probably hurdles people are going to havewhen they look at this process. They're going to say it's too much meeting, we don't have time to do all these meetings. You will save time. I can I've been doing this for a month only and I can promiseyou already that that's going to be the case. There's a slight contrary talethat it from our experience, and so I assume it happens elsewhere, isthat you can do meetings, create meetings and you try and seek consensus becausethat's the way you're alten meetings generally operate on sort of an attitude of consensusthat you start seeking consensus for too many things. Sometimes remember that elevating delegating. You remember the spirit that got you to what you were, which isyou know you're out there swashbuck coming and women. So he you can tieyourself up a little bit if you're not careful and stuff like that. Butthe way out of that trap is we'd raise it in an l ten meetingand say I've got too many meetings, and then you would sort it downand say, well, you're not delegating, so that's kind of solved itself.But it's a cautionary tale. To. Yeah, I completely agree with you, Joe, on I have. I already have too many meetings,but my sales out ten and my leader I'm in too. I'm in tooL ten's because I high lead my sales team and I'm in. I'm onthe leadership team. So that's three hours of my week right there and sortof a little bit of kind of thinking and planning before and after. But, like you said, same paid goes a long way to saving you timethe other thirty seven hours of the week, or however many hours I work.I think it's also kind of interesting to point out why they're called Lten's. Yeah, as I joe, kind of segued into that on thefact that you're getting valued out of the meeting. I pulled up our agendahere. I guess I'll start with the end. At the end of everymeeting you conclude and you go over here to do so and you say gotit, and that sounds really weird but it works because people have if Isay, Joe, I need you to turn your lights off this week,got it, Joe says got it. Got It. So, but nowI'm everybody, everybody on our meeting knows that Joe committed to doing that.So that sounds kind of Corny and cheesy, but it goes a long way topeople saying I'm going to do this this week and you guys are goingto hold me accountable, and next week when that person shows up and hasn'tdone it, you kind of get the evil eyes stare and you know they'regoing to get it done the next week. So there's a lot of it kindof there. But the conclusion you had. You go through your twodoos and you you end with rating the meeting one to ten, and that'son how the meeting was run, the value you got out of the meeting, and your goal is to have a meeting that is a ten out often every time. If you have a ten, you just say ten.If you have anywhere between one through nine, you give a little chip at whatwhat can we do to make the meeting better? I give this meetingat eight because I showed up late to this this podcast meeting. If Ido it again, I would show up on time so that I was moreconscious to Joe and Joel's time. You got your one get out of jailfree pass right, so here use that. But the agenda to an Lten theJoel said. He talked about rocks. Those are quarterly goals that each individualis accountable for. With the agenda is you check in give a personaland a professional best. Takes five minutes to run through all thirteen of thepeople on my sales team and I can't tell you how powerful that is.It sounds simple and cheesy, but what's your personal best from last week andwhat's your professional best from last week? And I talked to most of myteam throughout the week, but it really gives me a chance to learn aboutthem as people. You know, im my daughter learned to play guitar,or you know my daughter took her first steps. So or I got acheeseburger, you know. So they that personal best range from, you know, I went hunting, or I did this all right, sat around andwatch TV all weekend and that was just great. So it's a it trulyis a great way to continue to get a personal insight into your employees andpeople you manage. I think it's absolutely a way to build the whole systempurposely builds camaraderie and closeness and openness in...

...your organization. It's up it does, because you you're naked in those meetings. Sometimes, man, you just you'vemade mistakes and you have to own up to him, to your cohorts, your partners, and you make commitments and, like Luke says, Imean you started that meeting. Sam, like you know, I had themost wonderful weekend doing such and such. It's a personal to do so Ithink it's this whole system creates just in a spree, to Corp and andopenness and attitude in the organization. If you do it right, it's fantastic. It's really helpful. Because I'm bad summarizing, I'll just run through theagenda. There's the check in let's just talked about. Then you go overyour score card. Any things off track, you put it on the issues listso you can discuss it later in the meeting. You do your rockreview, which is everybody's quarterly goals. You talk through them and you askif they're on track or off track. If they're off track, put themon the issues list. Don't talk about them now and why? You justsay I'm track or off track. Go through your two doos. All theto do is to assign last week, ask if they were done. Ifthey're done, they're done. If they're not, I don't know if thisis actually Eos, but we give a one week get out of jail freecard. But, you know, is it an issue? If it's notdone, put on the issues list. You go through your headlines. People. Headlines is what they call it. I in my meeting call it thegood, the bad and the ugly because I'm a big Clint Eastwood Fan andjust you know, good news bad news from last week are really ugly news. That needs to hit the issues list from from every person on the meeting, not just the leader. And then you get to the bulk of themeeting. Thirty minutes on my sales meeting as ID yes, so all ofthese issues talked about. The people might not. You know, people comenot wanting to bring issues. They bubble up in these headlines and score cardand segue section and end up on your issues list. And you might havethree and spend thirty minutes solving three or ten minutes aving three. You mighthave fifteen and spend thirty minutes solving the seven most important ones because you mightnot get to them all and you just on. The time runs out.The time runs out and you conclude your meeting and if those issues are importantnext week, you solve them then, because you spent you spent the thirtyminutes fighting the fires that you need to solve and the other ones either aren'timportant enough to solve right now or the next week you bring them back up. And so one's like that's not really an issue anymore and you're like,all right, problem solved, it went away. HMM. It's really cool. It really keeps you focused on doing what's the most important and stuff likethat. So you can have twenty things, but you've got three rocks are rightin your face and six to Doos or whatever. That's all you getto work about. You you can't get distracted with the other stuff and sayI didn't get to that, because you've already told the world that those areyour priority. So it makes the productivity is pretty substantial when you get itworking right. That's great. Well, guys, I want to put awrap on this episode in a couple minutes here, but can you finish byjust telling me what impact, if you had to boil it down to youknow a few things, what impact has doing this process? You know,running eos inside of Your Business for a few years now had on your organizationRed Look, because you're going to clean. Life stole your stuff. If Igo first, I think els has traction. Has Truly Eos has createdtraction in our organization. That's I'll be the cheesy one that says that,but we are driving so much more momentum than we would have had because wehave all the pieces of the Pie we just discussed, which some are verysimple and some artists, as simple as they seem when you start to dothem. We're driving revenue growth. As the sales manager, that's the easiestone to point out. We've grown revenue through using traction. I think it'sbrought us closer together as an organization and just have people that understand what wewant to do and where we're going and care about the business and where mactechgear with pride because they like working for this organization. I think it's allowedus to truly create core values and share those with our employees and have peoplethat want to work here and want to be a part of I mean II'd tend to call this a team rather than business or group of employees,and that's people that want to be part of the mactech team and I thinkwe've created that environment with this system and it's paid dividends for us with keepingpeople, retaining people, finding new people that want to help grow this businessand have success in their own paycheck and account because of that. Bigots,those are great and I would agree with Luke especially. I think it's it'sdriven mactech brand dramatically over the last couple of years throughout our organization and we'respelling it to the rest of the world as well. I just have tosay that it also it makes you really understand both the people involved in yourorganization and what they do in the sectary. So you come to really understand whatyour strengths and weaknesses and how powerful it is. So in that case, if you're good at it, then you focus that, you know,you find the market opportunities that tie into...

...wear your strengths, that have theright margins or whatever, and you can drive that direction rather than, youknow, I used to run this business which, like I just told people, what do we do? Say What we do? Stuff for money.You know, somebody's got some money, we'll do it for him. Kindof doing. That doesn't work when you get a certain size and stuff.So I think it's about focus. I think it's about community. I thinkthat's a word that I like a lot. I think I could calls it ateam. I think we have a real community and I think that includesour customers, to you know, and and our vendors and stuff like that, and we reach out and it's just honest and open and that's that's thereal horse power. I mean there's a lot of rules and sets and guidelinesand stuff like that, but you know, you get everybody pulling the same direction, then you get a lot of you get a lot of good stuffhappening. Open and honest is a big is that a is that a youknow's term or a Joe Paulson term? I don't know, but it's onethat we lived by and it's one that I can't tell everybody enough times.Good about as powerful as it gets being open and honest with your employees inyour business. I'm looking, I'm looking at our Taddiano Pizza Pie here andyour data. You're open. You're sharing your data with your employees in yourselveson keeping your score, caruard your process. You're open and honest about how youdo things. There issues. Obviously, you're open and honest with the issuesthat are bugging you or holding you back or keeping you from being successful. Your people. You're open and honest about hiring and firing and having theright people in the right seats and your vision. Eight questions shared by allthe vto we talked about. You're open and honest. You're telling everybody inyour organization where you're going to go and how you're going to get there.All of that creates drum roll, track tract action. Exactly right. That'sthat's a great description. You she get like five cents every time I sayit on this podcast. Or what? Everybody take a shot? Yeah,like they can work work out a deal with EOS worldwide. You know,seems atter to me. If they knew. Yeah, I'm sure they'll come upwith why we broadcasts. Your blog is well, guys, this wasawesome, great conversation to really appreciate you doing this. I was hoping youcould tell our audience the best way to get in touch with you and wherethey can learn more about mactech marketing. Guys. Macnet on sitecom mactech onsitecom right, and Mac tech is spelled M acte h correct well, andsie the list that the show notes as well. See you can click throughand see what these guys are doing. Really impressive the way you guys arerunning your organization. I think that's probably a parent to everybody after having listenedto this episode. So congrats on what you've been able to accomplise. Imean, yeah, it's more so than getting business. We enjoyed talking toother businesses and people that do things differently or, you know, working togetherwith second what am I like? Partner businesses that just our entrepreneurial or lookingfor growth in nature of something we always enjoy doing. And even I thinkI'm a big proponent, and I don't know you you are, because youhave this podcast, of just people learning from each other and finding fun thingways at growth and business and having a little bit of fun, like whileyou working do your day job. Yeah, I agree, that's totally the one. If I have a closing piece of advice is if you're going toconsider do the Os, you read the book or read the what the heckof the Os? Talk to people who have done it. But if you'regonna do it, man, go all and get in, get into water, don't think you can kind of Wade into it and doable to the timewe did that and we learned how to do some meeting stuff. But youreally want, if you really want the impact. It's painful and it's long. It takes a while to get there that sometimes, but man, jumpin that pond. It's a good one, good advice, and I'd agree frommy experience so far. So Joel Wittenbreaker, Luke wit and breaker.Look them up on Linkedin, look at mactech on Sitecom to see what they'redoing and guys, thanks for doing this today. I really appreciate it absolutely. Thank you. Thank you very much. Awesome, you bet. As forthe rest of you, I hope to catch you on the next episodeof the Manufacturing Executive. You've been listening to the manufacturing executive podcast. Toensure that you never miss an episode, subscribe to the show in your favoritepodcast player. If you'd like to learn more about industrial marketing and sales strategy, you'll find an ever expanding collection of articles, videos, guides and toolsspecifically for BTB manufacturers at gorilla seventy sixcom learn. Thank you so much forlistening. Until next time,.

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