The Manufacturing Executive
The Manufacturing Executive

Episode · 1 year ago

Right People, Right Companies: How to Launch ABM as a Manufacturer w/ Sangram Vajare

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

You can market your products just about any way you want to. You can pour money into trade shows, pay-per-click campaigns, or print ads. Personally, I'm a big advocate of inbound marketing, but inbound means playing a very long game. Because of that, I advocate supplementing inbound with identifying the right people from the right companies for a special sales-plus-marketing solution.

I'm talking about account based marketing (ABM). 

Now if you want to learn about ABM, go see Sangram Vajre, author, co-founder at Terminus, and the man who sired ABM from 50,000 feet in the air. Or you can just listen to this episode of the podcast where Sangram and I talk about:

  • A solid definition of ABM
  • What intent data is and how to use it
  • Why you shouldn't treat all your accounts the same
  • How small to mid-sized businesses can apply ABM methodology

Resources we talked about:

To ensure that you never miss an episode of The Manufacturing Show, subscribe on Apple Podcasts, or Spotify, or here.

On an average, if your beal side isabout Fiftyk and if you have more than three people to four people about thedecision making process and if you're sale sacked is longer than six months,I think abium is a perfect fit for you. Welcome to the manufacturing executivepodcast, where we explore the strategies and experiences that aredriving midsize manufacturers forward here. You'll discover new insights frompassionate manufacturing leaders who have compelling stories to share abouttheir successes and struggles and youill learn from btob sales andmarketing experts about how to apply actionable business developmentstrategies inside your business. Let's get Ino the show welcome to another episode of theManufacturing Executive Podcast, I'm Joe Sullivan your host and a cofounderof the Industrial Marketing Agency Garilla, seventy six. So as a B to Bmanufacturer, there are a lot of ways to do marketing. Traditionally many ofyou have poured money into trade shows printed materials, maybe printads orpaper click. Those of you who have modernized your approach have foundyour way into content, marketing, inbound SEO and so on, and don't get mewrong here. I'm a huge advocate for inbound and content marketin hugeadvocate. We do it for ourselves, we do it our clients and with plenty ofsuccess, but, as I often explain generally speaking, inbounds is a longgame. You're consistently creating and publishing expert content, you'rebuilding authority for your website and slowly more of the right people fromthe right companies start to find you and engage with you and startconversations with you, and this is absolutely something you should bedoing, because it's sustainable. It's a sustainable way to go your business,but there's no magic button. You can push to win e inbound game if you'redoing it right. It requires some serious blood, sweat, ING, tears inmost cases, and it takes time it takes patience to build that machine, and sobecause of that, I'm also a huge advocate of supplementing inbound witha more proactive marketing approach where you're identifying the rightpeople from the right companies. Those buying process influences inside thoseorganizations, and then you go get them, and this is exactly what we are goingto talk about today. Account Base Marketing or ABM as its often called.So if you were to ask me Joe, who is the one single person I should go,learn about when you're thinking about abm, I would point you to Sangrim Vajre,and it just so happens that that is exactly who we are interviewing today,so Sangram to give a little introduction, ran marketing at Pardot,acquired by exact target, and then exact target was acquired by salesforce for two point: Seven billion soon after that Sanghim cofounded terminus,which hit one million in the first year, five million and the second and fifteenmillion in the third year ranking twenty first and deloits fastestgrowing company's list named back to back as one of the best places to work.Also inlinked. In alone, Sangram has over fifteen thousand subscribers towas weekly becoming intentional newsletter and over ten million viewsof his content. In just the last two...

...years. SANGRAM has quickly become amarketing and leadership expert and has been named one of the top twenty oneBTB influencers in the world by DMN network sangrams, the author of twobooks on marketing a frequent keynote speaker, a host of the top fiftybusiness podcast called flip, my funnel with over half a million down loads,and if I saw correctly, I think six hundred some episodes at this point,which blows my mind so sangrime. I am literally Giddy that you are here onour show today welcome Welthath, my God like most like an we get over with anlike. U, Jo, I'm so grateful that youpoocmeand I'm on this podcast and I love the h fact that it's your bodcast, yourepisodes are Mech in industry. So I think I wish more people would do thatyeah! Absolutely well! Yeah! Thanks for being here I mean this is I'm superexcited for this conversation. ABM is is something we're talking aboutconstantly with our clients at this point and five years ago, it's likethis acronym that you know most people didn't even know you did but, like youknow, it was sort of an evolving and emerging thing, and especially in themanufacturing sector were marketing tends to be kind of lagging thot. Youknow far ligging behind SASS and also behind most professional services, soit's kind of finding its way into the manufacturing world the last few yearsand we're big advocates of ABM. So you know that's sad. This is I'm excited toHeav her man, what's also exciting in general, for me, when I think aboutthis five year, like o thousand and fourteen two thousand and fifteen, whenwe started term with his and just the idea of Abian the idea of flopmathonal,and that sense is that my own understanding of that has evolved likeI wish I could say, man I'd you Joe. I knew exactly what this is, and this isnot true, nattual at all. In two thousand and fifteen, what I understoodand when I wrote the Firstbook I cam Bas marketing, there was a concept thatI felt they got to be a better way and then, in two thousand and nineteen,when I wrote the second book I feel like you could see that I literallymoved on from. Oh, it's not just a better mouse Fravit, as it is actuallya better marketing strategy. It's a better goe market trategy. So it's nolonger ABM. For the sake of Agam it's been to me, so it's been fascinating tojust go through that. Personally, I'm not from a jorning perspective. Yeah, Iimagine you've. Probably Ju I mean you. I know you've seen it all youere kindof Aut, the forefront of this movement, and so given, who were talking to herewe're not talking mostly to people in software who are, you know, tend to besuper innovative in the marketing front. A lot of my audience here on the showis midsize manufactures like, like I said, the intro they they've leaned ontrade, shows and print ads in the past and and are starting to do more contentmarketing the last few years and inbone. But can you just kind of give anoverview like what are we talking about here? Exactly when you' talking aboutaccount base marketing and the Coral Fet, I mean there are probably ahundred and seventy nine buzzwordty definitions of it. So I'll save youfrom that. In the layman terms, it is really focused market and salestogether, THAT'S A it's! A one team...

...approach to go after the right accountsthat matter to you for your business and you do any and everything to win.Those are cats, and I say that and then my people a like wait, a minute. That'sthat isn't that Hon are getting on sale, systibl, so yeah you're right theyshould be, but that's o what's happening. Most organizations marketingis giving sales people leads and SP cale seemis like well that that's notthe right Leed, but if you really bon it down, why is that at happening? It'snot because sales on want leads. It's not that marketing is just giving thembad leads. It's like there's no sales, empathy in the process and what I meanthat that is the title of the Sales Verson in most organization is a countexecutive. So they already understand, accounts Lik. You ask any sales persand whate are your top five accounts that you're working on? They would tellyou they don't have to look at sales, fors, thee, nop, O look at anything,but if you ask you a marketing game, what are the top fiver Camit or salespeople are working at? They have no idea and there no, what lies the issueof inboundonly or anything like that? As you share it's like. Yes, we got agreat top of the foln content, but gosh. If it don't help or sales people winwe're going to lose oour jobs and that's what a cammeras marketing allowsyou to do is to be on the same page with your sales tamets literally sagain, it's literally the definition can boil down to Xit Focus, marketngand sales approach. Yeah that's a great overview and I think, like you, said inLayman's terms right because I think a lot of people here about Abma. You knowit's described to them and they some people will just say. Well, isn't thatjust sales and well? Well now, not exactly it's! You know we're talkingabout creating focus here, but marketing an sales sort of workingtogether right yeah it does I mean you can go and I you want to go advance recjust for two minutes. Yes, we can actually have minten data. So imaginethis perfect wall and that's happening for a lot of advanced covenies.Everybody wants to like just uplevel their thoughts. Forget everybodyeverything that you're doing, but just Tu lil think that you're here watchingamovie and it's a Ted movie to put on your glasses. And here we got soimagine what Wat's happening with like some of the top companies that aredoing. This is something like this. They have a list of target accounts andthat's probably like a thousand or or fifteen hundred. They look at intent,data that allows them to see which of these fifteen hundred accounts ofactually looking for stuff that you are selling without using your company'sname and then they're able to say, oh out of this fifteen hundred. Thesehundred accounts are actually starting to look for stuff, so they're in thevery early stages of their identiifying, a meed in their company. Why notactivate our sale, steam and marketing team to go after those cats? Theyimagine that, like put that in a rocket fool and see if you can do that forevery business and that's what's really happening and that's what five yearsfrom now will happen where every organization would get try to get aheadas a Compari advantage in the harts and minds of the people they trying to sell,not when they are ready to buy. Because of that time they already have madetheir decision, and now you become one of the things that they have to checkthe box for the financial team that they have looked at three differentvendors. You don't want that! That's...

...too late! You want to get in early andhigher in the organization. I think that's where a lot of this intend dataand more of that tigher level. Information is supervaluable, but I'lltell you jok, since ninetty nine person of the organizations of not doing it. Ithink almost every person listening to this has a competitive advantage,because in your industry, this Intendino- maybe such a foreignconstant. You don't even have to go there. You may literally, if you wouldprobably be crushing your quoras for the year by literally making sure thatSaleton marketing agree on a set of accounts and marketing has programs notfor everything else out there, but for those accounts that you need to closethis month, this quarter this year Yep. I totally agree it's beyond what a lotof companies in this manufacturing space aree been thinking about. Can youtalk a little bit more about intent? Data and sort of you know make that alittle more concrete for some of the listers like what exactly we talkingabout within Tentata. Where does that come from yeah, so it so there's a lotof different datafor wives is out there. Combora is one of the foremost providerthat be potter up wit, that terminess and lovro thousand plus customers use.It's literally gives you information about. So let's say your manufacturingcompany. You are actually selling some of the manufacturing tools and suppliesfo, let's say home, deeper let', just take that as an examp. Okay and nowthat's what you want to do it one. That's one of your counters home depotthat you know you can serve them better, it's great, but you don't know whenhome people is going to be looking for it you you can have your sales rap oafter and call them up, but if they have a thousand people, the list, youdon't know Whit Ou want to call it atid in the morning, just o Te a priorityfor sale steam is just o't exist. So imagine if you could literally identifyHOMEDEPO somebody over there is starting to search some of the keybordsa that's like the te one level, the Depo thereis that let's Si es stportlooking for manufacturing, suppli chain, oriented things that aligns with yourindustry. You can buy those kywords from somebody like Babara and say ifanybody searches on these keywords that are related to my industry and myproduct services, even though it does not Sey the name of my company. I wantto know that so what they would do is like every time. Somebody from thosecompanies that you are interested in are looking for those keyboardsanywhere online, not onyou e Ad wit anywhere in the world. If you'll alertyour organization and your salestane. Now that does cre, you can see where itgoes from there right, like now, all of a sudden, your sale steam ind, yourmarketing team, if you're really looking to take you, the next level isgosh. We got the list, you won't just have your salestin call, you will saymarketing, let's actually run some campaign, let' just direct me with thisaccount, because this is one of her top accounts and they are abvous interestedin this topic. Let us be the first one to break into this account and showthem that we care and show them that we're interested you can createlearning pages specifically designed for you, company, namehome, deeper anddrive people of from their to your...

...lining page. So the level ofsophistication can just keep going up depending upon the size of video lat,your protes up, but that information dod right now is ready availablecompared to like five years ago, when I started talking Abou Abn, intentla terwasn't nowhere to be found like nobody really understood what intenda tat waseven but right now with all the Cooki tracking, iptrack and Kego tracking.This information is available. The question is: Are you going to take thenext level of interest? It does that matter to you or we can go to the MPLSul, the SA and all these different players. We qualifi people because oraccounted because you don't lave those accounts of the right, but in accountwas there's no qualification. There is no handoff. It's like Hem Peopo is onthe website. Dom We need to start calling them because there's noplocification, I the process, so you really saved so much time and emeergy.If you really do it Rigt, I mean what a great way to be able to channel thetime and energy of your team, as so many people are out there on the salesfront. Just like kind of flying blind right, their accountlist is anaccountlist. That's just based on you know, characteristics formographic,characterist. Is this size company in this part of the country with you knowthis many people are this much revenue, but they don't know who's buying, andyou know they don't know what activity people are from. Those organizationsare doing online to gather information during their sales or the Bryangprocess right. So it makes a ton of sense to you know to be able to helpenable your sales Tam by chandeling their energy into the right placeswhere they're going to have much higher success rates right, yeah and I think,what's really fascinating Joe. I have seen people marketers get promoted.I've seen marketers become MS in their organization. I've seein people gettinglot more donuses like I really have ce seen. I remember Daniel Day, who wasone of hour customers. Many was that nowf like Ni, looked Rou the company, Ithink he's still AE customer part Ot. That Nof, like I remember when hebecame- and he said to me. We do this allhams thing where we havea customer coming to the office every single month like Comein, and now we doit virtually obviously, but we have been doing that for over a year. It'sprobably the best marketing program. I've ever run is not anything else, buthave a customer come in the office and share what's going on how what mattersto them about them, so everybody in the organition knows who you're doing this,for so I dot remember Ganiel Day coming in and saying you guys have changed mylife and we're like come on. WEARE, not like we're not in the business of likesaving lives. You're, not like he's like. No, no, you don't understand whatyou guts done and thiss like already like at two thosand yd eighteen, yeah,aeady, two thousand and nineteen maybe and he's like well look. I know I canwalk into my cffos Rom. I can ackin O my CEOS room. I can walk into my cmosroom and tell them exactly how what I do drives pestes. I can tell them ofall the hipeline that they look at every single quarter to say: Are wegoing to meet our numbers or not?...

That's every company's challenge, everyquarter you're looking at us, you know as a fand, you know you're looking atlike. Are we going to meet the number or not lire you're? Looking at it, likea hawk he's like, I can tell very clearly within a ballpark of fewpercentage points which of these accounts weare going to close and whichwe have actually no chance is just bullish sales person saying that theygo win and the reason he can do. That is because he can go and say to them.Like hello, we think we' going to close. All of these fifty accounts. Righ. Letme tell you out of these fifty accounts. Only ten accounts er spend any time onour website, so the chances of the rest, forty closing, is Slin to none thatmaybe, like I don't know what they're doing, but the only theseten accounts.There are more than three people from that company's spending time on ourwebsite, so I feel very good. Putting a pikeline number to say that these tenshould be part of for fodecast, not the forty Fortye gravy. If that happens-and he said nine out of ten times, I'm literally this close to helping oursales tam forecast the right number now joe think about the power as a marketer.You have do actually help your organization forecast where the revenuenumbers are going to be so powerful. Well Sangribe, your most recent bookABM is bb, came out what a late last year was it yea, O, okay yeah, I owned it within a few daysof it. Going live and had read it a few days later. I think in two sittings orSOS o fantastic book, and I encourage oveybe here to pick it up, but there'sso many quotable lines from your book, one that I had highlighted that I thinkreally summed it up for me. Was this that you wrote not all accounts areequal in value, so why are you creating equal experiences for them? It's okayto play! Favorites! In fact, it's necessary assigning tears is thefairest way to make sure that you design experiences that reflect whateach account is worth. Your top tear gets wind and dined your bottom. Teargets right and takeout. I thought that was so great because it you know itjust touches on this N. I mean you said it like. Not every account is equal,yet we're treating them all the same. We're not looking at things. You'vetalked about like intent, Ecceteracso you can got unpack this idea a littlebit more about account, tiers, yeah, absolutely Joe, and thank you meand.It's one of my favorite quotes too because, and just you know like, andI'm gery open about, like writing, books and stuff Hel, like I'm running acompany, and so I'm not running every single word in it, but major if mycontent came from the podcast that the wea been doing is really cool and Iliterally hired a comedian to help me wride a Bock, and I'm very open to that.Because I sad an I said: here's off my content, but I don't want BBB to beboring to boring. I wanted to be better, do better so help me make this better,so I would put it in front of him like all right. I want to write about thisconcept of like you have to treat accounts differently. I'm like thatsounds so boring. Like can you help me and he came up with that idea of likehey, you know what what if you know it so he made it sound so much better. SoI'm very open and share people like Lo Ih've, no problem getting and takinghelp, and so should everybody take help...

...and you need it and that example isruling the croxs of the entire Accountis marketing idea. If your newsletter that you write those to everyone, if your Webin or goes to everyone, ifyour podcast goes to everyone, then everybody's the same and if everybody'sthe same then you're watering down the level experience that you should becreating for your top, your account, so the women be supfly dot to Mit. Likeyou know, you want a different tears. You can get in early and get a seat andall those kind of things like the the cheering is in BTC understands thisreally well, for whatever reason in we to be, we don't consider experiencesbased on the size of the deal, the type of the deal the length of the deal, andthat makes everybody look the same and here's the biggest challenge. Yourmillion dollar deal that you' go to glose Anda Fiftyhouzano dollar deal,and I will encourage everybody as a child puish to go back and look at yourbiggest deal and your smallest deal and look at the experiences you're.Providing them today maybe do a chart and just write it down and see, and ifyou are ninety nine percent of the things, if not hundred are the same yougot lucky is the only thing I would say, or your overspending on your smallaccount. You don't have to or you're actually not spenning enough to closethose deals, more of the bigger deals and so an example of that would be like,like we have done recently. We do Webin ours like everybody else, but now wehave started to do wabbin ars based on industry, so we would only get ten ortwenty people. That's all. We need wuld put them together in the same industryand have conversation about Houseald probems in that industry period, asopposed to trying to say, Hey, here's, the top of the Phun content for conismarketing, Yo're, saying o. That here is: Let's bring together CMOS ofmanufacturing dustry together and talk about that. It is such a differentconversation. It is such more richer, deeper conversation wite happening, soyou just start looking at. We would do it beter not just to get ideas out, butthen wel. We webinart that Ar excolerators for her and in that case,you're doing like five or ten people. I think people and companies are makinghuge mistake by dreating all accounts the same they're losing so much moneybecause you compet het right now is whining and dining. Somebody isactually giving them really good, takeotsotut or whatever they're tryingto do for them and if you're pretting everybody the same you're completelymissing the opportuniey that you have at Han. So I'm glad you brought that upyea. Well, you can see it how it all fits together. You use things likeintent. Data paired with you know the information you might already haveabout an account to make smart decisions about where you're going tohave more success and then to the broader audience you there are thingsyou'll. Do you know your content will play a role there and your newsletterand stuff, but then you know, as you look inside, that smaller group, thatis, the right fit and they'r showing signs that you know they're in thebuying process, then those are the ones...

...where you can deploy more of your timeand energy to right and it changes the game it Jen. Is the game like I'll?Give you another example of them real, quick and I share about, but this oneI's in the book you might remember Promada from Mata. They are probablyfits more into the sweet spot of the customers that you probably have andthe people are listening to it. They only needed hundred deals to close inlike next two o five years, like Theyon't need a thousand, because everydeal is at least a million, and it can go up to like tender or something likethat. So really really big deals, so they didn't care about number of leads.They didn't care about traffic and stuff, but when they started a compeshprograms, their traffic dropped by seventy percent. Now anybody who'sthinking like marketing is like well. If the traffic drops you're, not a goodmarketer like what what's wrong with you, but their typ enen revenue asgoing up, so they looked into like what happened and what they identitified wasbecause they were so targeted on their list of accounts that were going after.They were only advertising and engaging with these hundred camps that they hadidentified as their totaly dressber market and as soon as they did thateverything was to them and they didn't do anything else, that's all theyfigusd own. They actually went from twoenty. Two different technologies tosex dud everything they needed so their cost of acquisition overall drop byabout sixty two percent, just by that, so when they sarted to do that, thetraffic automatically DROPPD, but it was coming from the right places. Sothat's the question that we all have to ave the vanity metrixs. That is one ofthe other things that I canf Jumk in the book, for, as you might remember,is that I think you're measuring too many false positives and maninymetrics.I used to Magure website traffic going up is great. Now I aske the question.So what I used to look at a number of downloadsare great now, as as the question. So what are they? The right people? Arethey from the right tears ar the thero Tek people that we want more of? If not,we actually figured out how to waste our runnyn such a great point. I lovethat so much and it's a concept. I've talked about with clients too. Youarticulated that much better than I ever would have, but you know and likeyou see the same sort of thing happening when you're repositioningyour business like Gerilla, we moved from being more of the generalist firminto serving the industrial sector seven or eight years ago, and we'vehoned that more and more- and I was talk about how every time we hownedmore and more traffic dipped, more and more and then it would pop back up. Youknow a bit, but the quality of leads that were being generated on our site.The people who are appearing on our site were becoming higher and higherbecause our message was so focused and it's sort of a similar thing going onhere when you're running ab right, like the volume, is misleading and if you'relooking at those metrics alone, you'll- probably fire your marketer, becausethose vanity metrics as you com are going in the wrong direction. But itdoesn't matter, look at the revenue lookatg new customers. Are they theright customers? You know? Is Your pipeline growing right? So I thinkthat's a really great point. Yeah Man,...

I hope more companies taking out onthat yeah, that's great, so something I've observed online. You can maybevalidate this or speak to you know to it from another perspective, but a lotof the content you find if you're looking for ABM or a copacs marketing,information or examples of it, like almost everything I find is with eitherhuge enterprise organizations or software companies and I've found it alittle difficult to find like we developed our methodology with ourclients for doing apm with midsize BTB manufacturers. I'm talking aboutcompanies that do ten million to a hundred million a year in sales, andsome of those customers are enterprise. Others are smaller, but how do youthink, like ABM methodology can be applied to you know small, the midsizedbusinesses? Do you think anything changes or is it kind of the same thing?It's a really good question Joe, because I think ABM is not foreverybody and it goes back to like recognizing who your customers are ISOInforam. So I think people who think that hat we can sell to everybodythatthey're. Just not true. I should think that I assu when we startedtemins, we said well, we can selt everybody our market, capor marketsizes. You know five billion like it was just nothing but ego and Broa. Itwasn't anything real in sense. Real. The reality is that, five years later,we are a thousand customers right now right. So the market says that the Wyin to close faster up. So I think we have to get o real with ourselves. Youhave to look back in the milder and say what is truly our customer size andwhat I've seen that on an average if your beal side is about Fiftyk and ifyou have more than three people to four people about the decision makingprocess and if Youre sale sacked is longer than six months, I think abiumis a perfect fit for you anything lower than that. I think you startcompromising and ars like well how much time and energy, because you would nothave the time to Yo if you're doing, transaction business and example,another example would be like you know, if you ger big company selling, toreally really really small deals. Like you know, peny Buck two hundred buckssubscription or a thousand book subscription IVN is not a good fit freebecause tevel dake too much of a Tom in SUC, ons, Actionta business, you betteroff getting a brand ouriented conversation to the marketplace andbringing people together on it. As opposed to that, you could actually bea ten people agency. But if your deal sizes a over fifty K hundred K, I bi isperfect for you. I wouldn't you do that, because now you have to be verypersonalized, drescriptive rand, how You'e going to reach out to it. So itreally depends on who your customers, customer Sorrin some ways and the sizeof the deal. The number of people are involved in decision making process andalso the length of those deads yeah. That's a great answer, and so it's lessabout you and your company and more about the types of deals and the sizeof deals you're making with your customers that H, it makes perfectsense like there's a lot of the companies that we consult are what youdescribed. You kno. There are an equipment, manufacture and they sell.You know piece of equipment, that's six...

...hundred thousand dollars or two milliondollars, and it you know, there's a six to twelve month, bicycle and they're.Talking to you, know engineers and plant managers and procurement and theCSUITE and Therre all these different people on the buyers and who are goingto influence the sale somewhere along the way, and those are the situationstypically where we say there needs to be an account based component here,because it's worth investing in that sale, the time and energy of yourpeople right yeah. It really is super critical because that's where youactually Mi in you, seeing if you are notgoinaal listening to this right nowthinking that. Well, I have a different goal from my sales and marketing teamand we have a lead problem. We don't have a win rate, it maybe maybe havingWen rad issues. The real issue that you really have, in my opinion, justlooking at, is not an demand problem. It's actually a pipelan velocity prob,and that happens because those deals that you already edify the accountwithin an moving fast enough. So you neay Kand of figure out what's wrongwith that, and we keep going back to the marketing team, say head comthing,more ladues, pumping more in that COMPA. It's like. I would literally geranteelike because wou're literally in the middle of the year right now,organizations can stop having any more regeneration, whatsever right now andfocus on pipeline and expansion programs. They will hit their number asmanifethey will crush their numbers for the rest of the year if they made theiroverall budget for net newduman Zera like don't get any more netnew.Whatever is you know, pipeline and close, try to close them, or whateveris in you, expension Ose, try to close them and whater it comes to in Bor isgreat, that's gravy. They will crush their quotu because they will be lessdistracted, they'll be more focused and they will drive them as nottoes. Greatsummary Love that. So, where do you see ABM headed? You know the software'schanging so fast. I mean your own software, but also the things you'vedescribed. The way at intent date is becoming more available to us like.Where do you see things going in the next few years? Well I mean I Alea,wrote the sequel, an Ebm like ABM and then Ab Mis Beub, so I'm alreadywashing my hands on the fact that Hella I thought even is the future, but thereality. The second book man, Ye car but Abium, is actually FEEDA BAS, sotwo years, five Agis from now. If you may not even exist, it's just bettermarketing so where I think it opportunity for all of us is this. Thisidea that I shared earlier- and maybe that's what I right next is like BBB-is not boring to boring it's better a better and I think, there's anopportunity for all be to be companies benefactoring or anything is that wehave opportunity, crat, really better experiences for our customers, and Ithink what most companies are doing. If you really look at it, recruatingboring experiences for our customers and the realities. Let Mwe look at itand see it, and we expect that. That's wrong. We haven't raised the bar onexperiences, so I feel like it's almost a new movement that I feeld orsensecoming is going from, like you know what so what I'm e manufacturingcompany Sill e you know manufacturing Qipment companies, shoreyou're selling,whatever I'm selling, it's hy, not cit,...

...campaigns that are like you're selling,Hardin Davids right like like make it feel so real, so genuine so personalthat you actually move people to purchase, move people emotionally tomake them think that Hei want that, and I think that transition really hasn'thappened in btobe. So my thesis is like we were probably going to go toarenisound spirit of like all right. The poarding tobor is off noteverybody's, got to be creative and create more better to betterexperiences. Great Answer. What's on the horizon, for you, Sangram Welfor me Ana Mam doing so manydifferent things right, the podcast comany's doing good. I do I started A.I think I shared with you. Maybe in a separate note, I started a privatemarketing group and I' Aeber Yeah Nowe, a number ye like to me. That's like myplaygom right now, Joe Ive, to test ideas to see what's going on, giveother people voice that may not feel comfortable being in the outside worldand give a voice and videos and stuff like that. I want to see more markir obecome cms in the future. I think most markets don't really know what it takesto become that. But for me my heart right now really is focused on buildinganother community where people are actually hungry to be better marketers,and I almost see that happened with their lives and their work. Sefecommunities where added so if anybody wants to join, they can hit you or me,because you know it's all in my onlys that be raticol exactly there's. Somereally cool stuff happen. ING There already, and I like your tag line, issomething like it's all about getting one percent better right, justcontinuously getting one percent better at marketing. So I think it's you there's a compoundingif factos that I didn't never understood until it started to becomethat when you were intentional about it that every week I gotta get one personbetter. I don't know what it is and how it is. But when you takein audit andsay hey, I got one person batter: it's not daunting for you to become like athousand percent, better renning any streath, but we all can get one personbetter, but what the beauty is that imagine if you get one person bettertruly every week, that's like fifty two percent that Ar attheenot yourself. Thecompound impact of that is profoundly life. Changing so yeah. That's that'sthe goal. That's what we do the survey every thuesday religiously! Are wegetting one person better? Are you doing something? And there are theMatrix that allows you to think about, like you, can make a reat connectionand become a one person? Bat It? Because now you just learn aboutsomeone or something, and that thanks you better right, great concept. I'mexcited to get a little more actively involved in. I it just joined a fewweeks ago, and so it's very cool yeah. So well. This has been an amazingconversation, so many great nuggets in here I know I know our audience isgoing to get a ton of value on it and so where's the best place for listenersto find you online or to learn more about terminus. To pick up a copy ofABM S. BTB all this, this awesome stuff, you're doingwhere. Would you sendsomeone? Well I two things one. I would love people to send me a linkedonmessage if they got something out of it...

...like what did them learn from it ikethere was something that just jumped at it. If you did I'll, send you a freeCopey of my book, How's that that's awesome yeah, you better take them upon that yeah. Let's make me up on it like I don't care how many weowill cometo me like tell me one thing that really connected before you, and alsoyou will do more. I will do something with that and I'll just shoot. Youshoot you a copy like no question ays! Well, Hey! We don't even have to sendyou the Amazon that, if, if you go that route, so that's that's a deal awesome, that's great, so check outSanrom find them on linked in see what terminus is doing. You look for hisbook. ABMS BTOB Pekdot community. Is The community hes started for marketersa lot of stuff you can take away from following Sangrom, so Yo just want tosay thank you for doing this. It's been an awesome episode and thrilled. Youcould be a part of it anytime, Joe Anytim, for you awesome and this forthe rest of you. I hope to catch you on the next episode of the ManufacturingExecutive. You've been listening to themanufacturing executive podcast to ensure that you never missed an episodesubscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player. If you'd like to learnmore about industrial marketing and sale strategy, you'll find an everexpanding collection of articles, videos guides and tools specificallyfor btob manufacturers at Grilla. Seventy sixcom aawarn. Thank you somuch feon listening until next time.

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