The Manufacturing Executive
The Manufacturing Executive

Episode · 1 year ago

Right People, Right Companies: How to Launch ABM as a Manufacturer w/ Sangram Vajare

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

You can market your products just about any way you want to. You can pour money into trade shows, pay-per-click campaigns, or print ads. Personally, I'm a big advocate of inbound marketing, but inbound means playing a very long game. Because of that, I advocate supplementing inbound with identifying the right people from the right companies for a special sales-plus-marketing solution.

I'm talking about account based marketing (ABM). 

Now if you want to learn about ABM, go see Sangram Vajre, author, co-founder at Terminus, and the man who sired ABM from 50,000 feet in the air. Or you can just listen to this episode of the podcast where Sangram and I talk about:

  • A solid definition of ABM
  • What intent data is and how to use it
  • Why you shouldn't treat all your accounts the same
  • How small to mid-sized businesses can apply ABM methodology

Resources we talked about:

To ensure that you never miss an episode of The Manufacturing Show, subscribe on Apple Podcasts, or Spotify, or here.

On an average, if your batsides about fifty K and if you have more than three people do for peoplebar the decision making process, and if your sale sacket is longer than sixmonths, I think abim is a perfect fit for you. Welcome to themanufacturing executive podcast, where we explore the strategies and experiences that are driving midsize manufacturers forward. Here you'll discover new insights from passionate manufacturing leaders who havecompelling stories to share about their successes and struggles, and you'll learn from Btob sales and marketing experts about how to apply actionable business development strategies inside yourbusiness. Let's get into the show. Welcome to another episode of the ManufacturingExecutive podcast. I'm Joe Sullivan, your host and a cofounder of the IndustrialMarketing Agency guerrilla seventy six so as a bdb manufacturer, there are a lotof ways to do marketing. Traditionally, many of you have poured money intotrade shows, printed materials, maybe, print ads or paper click. Thoseof you who have modernized your approach of found your way into content marketing,inbound SEO and so on. And don't get me wrong here I'm a hugeadvocate for inbound and content market, huge advocate. We do of ourselves,we do of our clients, and with plenty of success. But, asI often explain, generally speaking, in bounds is a long game. Yourcon sistantly creating and publishing expert content. You're building authority for your website andslowly more of the right people from the right companies start to find you andengage with you and start conversations with you, and this is absolutely something you shouldbe doing because it's sustainable. It's a sustainable way to go your business. But there's no magic button you can push to win the inbound game.If you're doing it right, it requires some serious blood, sweat and tearsin most cases, and it takes time, it takes patience to build that machine. And so, because of that, I'm also a huge advocate of supplementinginbound with a more proactive marketing approach where you're identifying the right people fromthe right companies, those buying process influencers inside those organizations, and then yougo get them. And this is exactly what we are going to talk abouttoday, account based marketing, or ABM as it's often called. So ifyou were to ask me, Joe, who is the one single person Ishould go learn about when you're thinking about abm, I would point you toSangrum Vajre, and it just so happens that that is exactly who we areinterviewing today. So sangrum, to give a little introduction, ran marketing atpar dot, acquired by exact target, and then exact target was acquired bysales force for two point seven billion. Soon after that, Sangram cofounded terminus, which hit one million in the first year, five million in the secondand fifteen million in the third year, ranking twenty one and deloit's fastest growingcompanies list named back to back as one of the best places to work.Also, on Linkedin all own sang rum has over fifteenzero subscribers to was weekly, becoming intentional newsletter, and over ten million views of his content in justthe last two years. Sang Rum has...

...quickly become a marketing and leadership expertand has been named one of the top twenty one BDB influencers in the worldby DMN network. Sang Rum's the author of two books on marketing, afrequent keynote speaker, a host of the top fifty business podcast called flip myfunnel, with over half a million downloads and, if I saw correctly,I think six hundred some episodes at this point, which blows my mind.So, Sangrum, I am literally Giddy that you are here on our showtoday. Welcome that a draw like, oh my God, like most people, like a me get over with and like but Joe, you. I'mso grateful that the Apotoch me and on this podcast and I love the factthat it's your podcast. Your episodes are niche in industry, so I thinkI wish more people would do that. Yeah, absolutely. Well, yeah, thanks for being here and me, this is I'm super excited for thisconversation. ABM is it something we're talking about constantly with our clients at thispoint, and five years ago it's like this acronym that you know, mostpeople didn't even know you did, but, like you know, it was sortof an evolving and emerging thing and, especially in the manufacturing sector we're marking, tends to be kind of lagging about, you know, far laggingbehind SASS and also behind most professional services. So it's kind of finding its wayinto the manufacturing world the last few years and we're big advct kits ofa BM. So you know that's sad. This is I'm excited to have youhere. Man. What's also exciting in general for me when I thinkabout this five year like twenty fourteen, two thousand and fifteen, when westarted terminus and just the idea of ABM, the idea of flip my funnel andthat sense, is that my own understanding of that has evolved like Iwish I could say, man, I knew, Joe, I knew exactlywhat this is, and this is not true, not to it all.In two thousand and fifteen what I understood, and when I wrote the facebook andAccountas Marketing, there was a concept that I felt they got to bea better way. And then in two thousand and nineteen, when I wrotethe second book, I feel like you could see that I literally moved onfrom Oh, it's not just a better mousetrap, it as it is actuallya better marketing strategy, it's a better go to market strategy. So it'sno longer ABM for the sake of ABIUM. It's big to be. So it'sbeen fascinating to just go through that. Personally, I'm from a journey perspective. Yeah, I imagine you've probably just I mean you, I knowyou've seen it all. You've you were kind of at the forefront of thismovement. And so, given who were talking to here, we're not talkingmostly to people in software who are, you know, tend to be superinnovative in the marketing front. A lot of my audience here on the showis midsize manufactures. Like I said the INTRO, they they've leaned on tradeshows and print ads in the past and so in are starting to do morecontent marketing the last few years and in Don but can you just kind ofgive an overview, like what are we talking about here exactly? When youtalking about a countpace marketing and the core of Fed, I mean there areprobably a hundred, seventy nine buzzworthy definitions of it, so I'll save youfrom that. In the layman terms, it is really focused marketing and salestogether. That's a it's a one team approach to go after the right accountsthat matter to you for your business and...

...you do any and everything to winthose accounts. And I say that and then might people are like, willwait a minute, that's the isn't that what margeting and sales is supposed to. Yeah, you're right, they should be, but that's not what's happeningmost organizations. Marketing is giving sales people leads and spe sales seems like,well, that's not the rightly, but if you really boil it down,widse that that happening. It's not because sales don't want leads. It's notthat marketing is just giving them bad leads. It's like there's no sales empathy inthe process. And what I mean by that is the title of asalesperson in most organization is account executive, so they already understand accounts that youask any sales person, what are your top five accounts that you're working on, they would tell you they don't have to look at sales for don't haveto look at anything. But if you ask your marketing team what are thetop five accounts your sales people are working on, they had no idea.And there what lies the issue of inbound only or anything like that? Asyou shared, it's like, yes, we got to create top of theformer content, but gosh, if you don't help our sales people win,we will to lose our jobs and that's what account is marketing allows you todo is to be on the same page with your sales stements. Literally,again, it's literally the deaf finitition getting boiled down to it's a focus marketingand sales approach. Yeah, that's a great overview and I think, likeyou said, in Layman's terms right, because I think a lot of peoplehere about ABM. You know, it's described to them and they some peoplewill just say, wasn't that just sales, and will no, not exactly.It's you know, we're talking about creating focus here, about marketing andsales sort of working together. Right, yeah, it does. I meanyou can go and if you want to go advanced wreck just for two minutes. Yes, you can actually have intend data. So imagine this perfect wall, and that's happening for a lot of advanced companies. Everybody wants to likejust uplevel their thoughts. Forget everybody, everything that you're doing, but justup level thing that you're here watching a movie and it's a D movie,so put on your glasses and here we go. So imagine what what's happeningwith like some of the top companies that are doing this is something like this. They have a list of target accounts and that's probably like a thousand orone thus fifteen hundred. They look at intent data that allows them to seewhich of these thou five hundred accounts are actually looking for stuff that you areselling without using your company's name, and then they are able to say,Oh, out of one Thousan five hundred, these hundred accounts are actually starting tolook for stuff. So they're in the very early stages of their identifyinga need in their company. Why not activate our sales team and marketing teamto go after those accounts? And I imagine that like put that on arocket fuel and see if you can do that for every business. And that'swhat's really happening. At that point, five years from now, will happenwhere every organization will get try to get ahead as a competive advantage in thehearts and minds of the people that trying to sell, not when they areready to buy, because at that time they've already have made their decision.And now you, you become one of the things that they have to checkthe box of the financial team that they have looked at three different vendors.You don't want that. That's too late.

You want to get in early andhigher in the organization. I think that's where a lot of this intenddata and more of that higher level information is super valuable. But I'll tellyou, Joe, since ninety nine percent of the organizations and not doing it, I think almost every person listening to this as a competitive advantage because inyour industry this intend data maybe such a foreign constant you don't even have togo there. You may literally, if you would probably be crushing your quotasfor the year by literally making sure that sales and marketing agree on a setof accounts and marketing has programs, not for everything else out there, butfor those accounts that you need to close this month, this quarter, thisyear. Yep, I totally agree. It's beyond what a lot of companiesin this manufacturing space or even thinking about. Can you talk a little bit moreabout intent data and sort of, you know, make that a littlemore concrete for some of the listeners, like what exactly we talking about withintent data? Where's that come from? Yeah, so it's so there's alot of different data provides us out there. Bambara is one of the foremost.Provided that we botter up at a terminus and love of a thousand pluscustomers use. It's literally gives you information about so let's say you're manufacturing company. You are actually selling some of the manufacturing tools and supplies to, let'ssay home bepat. Let just take that as an example. Okay, andnow that's what you want to do. Is One that's one of your accountis home people that you know you can serve them better. It's great,but you don't know when home people is going to be looking for it.You you can have your sales up, go after and call them up,but if they have a thousand people but list you don't know, but youwant to call it Adam in the morning, you just don't take the priority forsales team. Is Justices exist. So you imagine if you could literallyidentify home people, Somebody over there is starting to search some of the keywords. That's like the deep one level of the people there's that. Let's saythey start looking for manufacturing supply chain oriented things that aligns with your industry.You can buy those keywords from somebody like Bambara and say if anybody searches onthese keywords that are related to my industry and my product services, even thoughit does not say the name of my company. I want to know that. So what they would do is like, every time somebody from those companies thatyou are interested in are looking for those keywords anywhere online, not onyour website, with anywhere in the wild, it will alert your organization and yoursales team. Now that does clue. You can see where it goes fromthere. Right like now, all of a sudden, your sales teamand your marketing team, if you're really looking to take you to the nextlevel, is Gosh, we got the list. You won't just have yoursales team call. You will say, marketing, let's actually run some campaignleds just to direct me on with this account, because this is one ofour top accounts and they are obviously interested in this topic. Let us bethe first one to break into this account and show them that we care andshow them that are interested. You can create landing pages specifically designed for yourcompany, named home deeper and drive people from there to your landing page.So the level of sophistication can just keep...

...going up, depending upon the sizeof the deal that you're run to self. But that information, dude, rightnow, is readily available compared to like five years ago, when Istarted talking about ABN, inten data wasn't nowhere to be found, like nobodyreally understood what inten data was even. But right now, with all thecookie tracking, Ip tracking, keyboard tracking, this information is available. The questionis, are you going to take the next level of interested? Doesthat matter to you? Or we can go through the MQL, the ESKql, the essay out and all these different layers. We you qualify peoplebecause our account because you don't have those accounts. So the right but inaccount based there is no qualification, there is no handoff. It's like homedeeper is on the website. Boom, we need to start calling them becausethere there. There's no qualification the process. You really save so much time andenergy if you really do it right. I mean what a great way tobe able to Chan the time and energy of your team, as somany people are out there on the sales front just like kind of flying blindright. Their Account List is an account list that's just based on, youknow, characteristics, firmographic characterists, this size company in this part of thecountry with you know this. Many people are this much revenue, but theydon't know who's buying and you know they don't know what activity people are fromthose organizations are doing online to gather information during their sales or the buying process. Right. So it makes a ton of sense to how you know,to be able to help enable your sales seeing by channeling their energy into theright places where they're going to have much higher success rights. Right. Yeah, and I think what's really fascinating, Joe, I have seen people,marketers, get promoted. I've seen marketers becomes ems in their organization. I'veseen people getting lock more bonuses, like I really have che seen. Iremember Daniel Day, who was one of our customers. Then he would havesnowflake and I moved other company. I think he's still a customer part ofit. It smells like. I don't remember when he came in. Hesaid to me we do this all hymns thing where we have a customer comingto the office every single month, like come in and now we do itword truly, obviously, but we have been doing that for over a year. It's probably the best marketing program I've ever run. Is Not anything elsebut have a customer coming the office and share what's going on. How whatmatters to them, about them. So everybody in the organization, those whowe're doing this for. So I didn't remember Daniel Day coming in and saying, you guys have changed my life. And we're like, come on,we're not, like we're not in the business of like saving lives, we'renot. Like. He's like no, no, you don't understand. whichyou guys are done. And this like early, like at two thousand andeighteen. Yeah, early two thousand and nineteen maybe. And he's like,well, look, I know. I can walk into my CFO's room,I can walk into my CEO's room, I can walk into my cmos roomand tell them exactly how what I do drives business. I can tell themof all the pipeline that they look at every single quarter to say are wegoing to meet our numbers or not?...

That's every company's challenge every quarter.You're looking at it, you know, as a found you know you're lookingat like are we going to reave the number or not, like you're lookingat it like a hawk. He's like, I can tell very clearly, withina ballpark of few percentage points, which of these accounts we're going toclose and which we have absolutely no chances. Just bullish salesperson saying that. Theygo in and the reason he can do that is because he can goand say to them like hello, we think we're going to close all ofthese fifty accounts. Right, let me tell you, out of these fiftyaccounts, only ten accounts are spend any time on our website. So thechances of the rest forty closing is slim to none. That maybe like Idon't know what they're doing, but the only desten accounts that are more thanthree people from that company's spending time on our website. So I feel verygood putting a pipeline number to say that these ten should be part for forecast, not the forty. Forty S gravy. If that happens, and he saidnone. Often Times I'm literally disclosed to helping our sales team forecast theright number. Now, Joe, think about the power as a marketer youhave to actually help your organization forecast where the revenue numbers are going to be. So powerful. Well, Sangram, your most recent book, ABM isbb came out what a late last year, was it? Yeah, okay,yeah, I owned it within a few days of it going live andhad read it a few days later, I think, in two sittings orshows. A fantastic book and I'd encourage every here to pick it up.But there's so many quotable lines from your book, but one that I hadhighlighted that I think really summed it up for me was this that you wrote. Not all accounts are equal in value, so why are you creating equal experiencesfor them? It's okay to play favorites, in fact it's necessary.Assigning tears is the fairest way to make sure that you design experiences that reflectwhat each account is worth. Your top tier gets wined and dined, yourbottom tier gets bright and take out. I thought that was so great becauseit it just touches on this. I mean you said it like not everyaccount is equal, yet we're treating them all the same. We're not lookingat things you've talked about, like intent, etcetera. So you can go unpackthis idea a little bit more about account tears. Yeah, absolutely,Joe, and thank you. And it's one of my favorite quotes too,because, and just so you know, like, and I'm very open aboutlike writing book and stuff. He look, I'm running a company and so I'mnot writing every single word in it, but majority of my content came fromthe podcast that we are doing. This is a really cool and Iliterally hired a comedian to help me write a book and I'm very open tothat because that's hot. And it said, here's all of my content, butI don't want to be boring, to boring. I wanted to bebetter, do better. So help me make this better. So I wouldput in front of him like all right, I want to write about this conceptof like you have to treat accounts differently and like that sounds so boring, like can you help me? And he came up with that idea oflike hey, you know what, what if you know it's so he madeit sound so much better. So I'm very open and share people like look, I'm no problem getting and taking help, and so should everybody take help thatyou need it. And that example...

...is really the Crox of the entireaccount is marketing idea. If your news letter that you write goes to everyone, if your Webinar goes to everyone, if your podcast goes to everyone,then everybody's the same, and if everybody is the same, then you're wateringdown the level experience that you should be creating for your top your account.So the way, when we fly Delta Miles, like you know, youwant a different tiers, you can get in early and get a seat andall those kind of things. Like the turing is in. BBC understands thisreally well. For whatever reason in me to be we don't consider experiences basedon the size of the deal, the type of the deal, the lengthof the deal, and that makes everybody look the same. And here's thebiggest challenge. Your million dollar deal that you're going to close an a fiftyzerollardeal, and I will encourage everybody has a challenge to go back and lookat your biggest deal and your smallest deal and look at the experiences you're providingthem today. Maybe do a chart and just write it down and see andif you are ninety nine percent of the things, if not hundred or thesame, you got lucky, is the only thing I would say. Oryour overspending on your small accounts. You don't have to or you're actually notspending enough to close those deals more of the bigger deals. And so anexample of that would be like, like we have done recently, we dowebinars like everybody else, but now we have started to do webinars based onindustry. So we would only get ten or twenty people. That's all weneed. will put them together in the same industry and have conversation about howsolve problems in that industry period. As opposed to trying to say, Hey, here's the top of the phone content for a convers marketing. You're sayingno, here is let's bring together CMOS of manufacturing industry together and talk aboutthat. It is such a different conversation. It is such more richer, deeperconversation. We're happenings. So you just start looking at we would doan Webin or just to get ideas out, but then we'll be webinart that areexcell raiders for her, and in that case you're doing like five orten people. I think people and companies are making huge mistake by treating allaccounts the same. They're losing so much money because you competitor right now iswhining and dining. Somebody is actually giving them really good takeouts or whatever they'retrying to do for them, and if you're treating everybody the same, you'recompletely missing the opportunity that you have at hand. So I'm glad you broughtthat up. Yeah, well, you can see how it all fits together. You use things like intent data, paired with, you know, theinformation you might already have about an account, to make smart decisions about where you'regoing to have more success. And then to the broader audience, youthere are things you'll do. You know that your content will play a rolethere and your newsletter and stuff. But then you know, as you lookinside that smaller group that is the right fit and they're showing signs that youknow they're in the buying process, then...

...those are the ones where you candeploy more of your time and energy to right and it changes the game.It change is the game like. I'll give you another example of them toreal quick and I share about but this one it's in the book. Youmight remember Romata Promata. They are probably fits more into the sweet spot ofthe customers that you probably have and the people who are listening to it.The only needed hundred of deals to close in like next two to five years. Like they don't need a thousand because every deal is at least a millionand it can go up to like tendin or something like that. So really, really big deals. So they didn't care about number of leads, theydidn't care about traffic and stuff. But when they started a CONTAS programs,they're traffic dropped by seventy percent. Now anybody who's thinking like marketing is like, well, if the traffic drops, you're not to get marketer like,what's wrong with you? But their pipeline and revenue is going up. Sothey looked into like what happened and what they identified was because they were sotargeted on their list of accounts they were going after, they were only advertisingand engaging with these hundred accounts that they had identified as their total addressible market. And as soon as they did that, everything was to them and they didn'tdo anything else. That's all they focused down. They actually went fromtwenty two different technologies to six to do everything they needed. So their costof acquisition overall dropped by about sixty two percent just by that. So whenthey started to do that, the traffic automatically dropped, but it was comingfrom the right places. So that's the questions that we all have to askthem. Vanity metrics. That is one of the other things that I kindof jumped in the book for, as you might remember, is that Ithink you're measuring too many false positives and manity metrics. I used to menasurewebsite traffic going up. Is Great. Now I ask the question. Sowhat I used to look at? Number of downloads are great now, asask the question. So what are they the right people? Are they fromthe right tears? Are they the people that we want more of? Ifnot, we actually figured out how to waste our money. Such a rightpoint. I love that so much and it's a concept I've talked about withclients. To you articulated that much better than I ever would have. Butyou know, and like you see the same sort of thing happening when you'rerepositioning your business like guerrilla. We moved from being more of a generalist firminto serving the industrial sector seven or eight years ago and we've honed that moreand more. And I was talking about how every time we howned more andmore are traffic dipped more and more and then it would pop back up.You know a bit, but the quality of leads that were being generated onour site, the people who are appearing on our site, we're becoming higherand higher because our message was so focused. And it's sort of a similar thinggoing on here. When you're running a BM right, like the volumeis misleading and if and if you're looking at those metrics alone, you'll probablyfire your marketer because those vanity metrics, as you calm are, are goingin the wrong direction. But it doesn't matter. Look at the revenue.Look at new customers. Are they the right customers? You know, isyour pipeline growing right? So I think that's a really great point. Yeah, man, I hope more companies taking...

...note on that. Yeah, that'sgreat. So something I've observed online. I you can maybe validate this orspeak to you know, to it from another perspective, but I a lotof the content you find if you're looking for ABM or a companies marketing informationor examples of it, like almost everything I find is with either huge enterprizeorganizations or software companies, and I've found it a little difficult to find likewe develop our methodology with our clients for doing a PM with midsize be bemanufacturers. I'm talking about companies that do ten million to a hundred million ayear in sales and some of their customers are enterprise, others are smaller.But how do you think like Abian methodology can be applied to more, youknow, small, the midsize businesses? Do you think anything changes or isit kind of the same thing? It's a really good question job, becauseI think Abian is not for everybody and it goes back to like recognizing whoyour customers are is so important. So I think people who think that wecan sell to everybody that that's just not true. I used to think that, I is. When we started terminus. We said, well, we cansell everybody. Our market gap or market size has, you know,five billion, like it was just nothing but ego and broad it would wasn'tanything real in sense real. The reality is that five years later we area thousand customers right now, right so the market says that they got intogrows faster. So I think we have to get real with ourselves. Youhave to look back in the minner and say what is truly our customer sizeand what I've seen that on an average, if your deal sizes is about Kand if you have more than three people, do for people out ofthe decision making process and if your sale sacket is longer than six months,I think abim is a perfect fit for you. Anything lower than that Ithink you start compromising in areas like, well, how much time and energy, because you would not have the time to do if you're doing transaction business. An example, or another example would be like, you know, ifif you've got a big company selling to really, really small deals like,you know, a hundred bucks, two hundred bucks subscription or a thousand bookssubscription, it is not a good fit for you because that will date toomuch of her time and to transaction the business. You better off getting abrand oriented conversations in the marketplace and bringing people together on it. As opposedto that, you could actually be at ten people agency, but if yourdeal size is are over fifty gay, hundred gay abys, perfect for you. Why wouldn't you do that? Because now you have to be very personalizedprescriptive around how you're going to reach out to it. So it really dependson who your customers customers are in some ways, and the size of thedeal, the number of people are involved in decision making process and also thelength of those deals. Yeah, that's a great answer. And so it'sless about you and your company and more about the types of deals and thesize of deals you're making with your customers. That that it makes perfect sense.Like there's a lot of the companies that we can solve are what youdescribed. There are an equipment manufacture and they sell a, you know,piece of equipment that's six HUNDREDZERO dollars or...

...two million dollars and you know,there's a six to twelve month bicycle and they're talking to you know, engineersand plant managers and procurement and the sea suite and they're all these different peopleon the buyers and who are influence the sale somewhere along the way. Andand those are the situations typically where we say there needs to be an accountbased component here, because it's worth investing in that sale the time and energyof your people. Right. Yeah, it really is super critical because that'swhere you actually might be seeing if you are an organization listening to this rightnow and thinking that, well, I have a different goal for my salesand marketing team and you have a lead problem. We don't have a windrate. It may be may be having wind rate issues. The real issuethat you really have, in my opinion, just looking at is not a demandproblem. It's actually a pipeline and velocity problem. And that happens becausethose deals that you already identify the accounts with are not moving fast enough.So you need to kind of figure out what's wrong with that. And wekeep going back to the marketing team say hey, pumping more leads, pumpingmore in bound pumping. It's like I would literally guarantee like, because weare lifted in the middle of the year right now, organizations can stop havingany more lead generation whatsoever right now and focus on pipeline and expansion programs.They will hit their number. As a matter of fact, will crush theirnumbers for the rest of the year if they made their overall budget for netnew demand zero, like, don't get any more net new. Whatever is, you know, pipeline and closed. Try to close them, or whateveris in your expansion do is try to close them. And whatever it comesto about is great. That's gravy. They will crush their duta because theywill be less distracted, it will be more focused and they were drive themand starts great. Summary. Love that. So where do you see abim headed? You know the software is changing so fast, I mean your ownsoftware, but also the things you've described, the way it intented is becoming moreavailable to us. Like where do you see things going in the nextfew years? Well, I mean I already wrote the sequel on ABM,like ABM and then Abim is b because I'm already washing my hands on thefact that Hella, I thought even is the future, but reality the secondbook, I mean he care, but Ibim is actually BEDB. So twoyears, five years from now, IBI may not even exist. It's justbetter marketing. So what I think is opportunity for all of us is thisthis idea that I shared earlier, and maybe that's what all right. Nextis like BBB is not boring to boring, it's better to better, and Ithink there is an opportunity for all BB companies, manufacturing or anything,is that we have an opportunity create really better experiences for our customers. AndI think what most companies are doing, if you really look at it,we're grunting boring experiences for our customers and their reality is that we look atit and see it and we expect that. That's the problem. We haven't raisedthe bar on experiences. So I feel like it's almost a new movementthat I feel or sense coming is going from like you know what, sowhat? I'm a manufacturing company. Still See, you know, manufacturing equipmentcompany, show selling whatever I'm selling.

It's why? Or create campaigns thatare like you're sending hardy Davidson right, like like make it feel so real, so genuine, so personal. Then you actually move people to purchase,move people emotionally to make them think that hey, I want that. AndI think that transition really hasn't happened in B Tob. So my thesis islike we're probably going to go through a renaissund spirit of like all right,the boarding to boarding is off and now everybody's got to be creative and createmore better to better experiences. Great Answer. What's on the horizon for you?Sang them well. For me, I'm a man doing so many differentthings right. The podcast companies doing good. I do. I started a Ithink I share with you, maybe on a separate now. I starteda private marketing group and I'm sure, yeah, remember yea like to methat's like my plate Noun right now. Joe Right, to test ideas,to see what's going on, give other people boys. That me not feelcomfortable being in the outside world and give a voice and videos and stuff likethat. I want to see more marketers become CMOS in the future. Ithink most markets don't really know what it takes to become that. But forme, my heart right now really is focused on building another community where peopleare actually hungry to be better marketers and I want to see that happened withtheir lives and their work self. Communities. We're at it. So if anybodywants to join, they can hit you or me, because you knowit's all in my only so that you really cool. Exactly, there's somereally cool stuff happening. They are already and I like your tagline is somethinglike it's all about getting one percent better, right, just continuously getting one percentbetter at market. So, in like man, I think it's you. There's a compounding effect of that. I didn't never understood until it startedto become that, when you're intentional about it, that every week I gottaget one person better. I don't know what it is and how it is, but when you take an audit and say, Hey, I got oneperson better, it's not daunting for you to become like a thousand person better. Any any stretch. But we all can get one person better. Butwhat's the beauty is that? Imagine if you get one person better truly everyweek, that's like fifty two percent better at the end of the year.So the compound impact of that is profoundly life changing. So yeah, that'sthat's the goal. That's all. You do. The survey every Thursday religiously. Are we getting one person better? Are you doing something? And thereare the Matrix that allows you to think about like you can make a greatconnection and become a one person better because now you just learned about someone orsomething and that makes you better. Great, great concept. I'm excited to geta little more actively involved in it. Just joined a few weeks ago andit's very cool. Yeah, so well, this has been an amazingconversation. So many great nuggets in here, I know. I know our audienceis going to get a ton of value on it. And so where'sthe best place for listeners to find you online or to learn more about terminus, to pick up a copy of a BIM is b to be all thisthis awesome stuff you're doing? Where would you send someone? Well, intwo things. One, I would love people to send me a linkedin messageif they got something out of it,...

...like what did they learn from it? If there was something that just jumped at it. If you did,I'll send you a freak copy of my book. Hows that? That's awesome. Yeah, you better take them up on that. Yeah, yeah,let's take me up on it, like, I don't care how many people cometo it, like, tell me one thing that really connected for youand also you would do more. I will do something with that and I'lljust shoot you. Shoot you a copy, like no questions asked. Well,Hey, we don't even have to send you the Amazon that if youif you go that route. So that's that's a deal. Awesome. That'sgreat. So check out SANGROM. Find them on Linkedin. See what terminusis doing. You look for his book, ABMSB Tob Peak Dot community is thecommunity he's started for marketers. A lot of stuff you can take awayfrom following Sangrom. So I just want to say thank you for doing this. It's been an awesome episode and thrilled you could be a part of itanytime, Joe, any time for you awesome, and this for the restof you. I hope to catch you on the next episode of the ManufacturingExecutive you've been listening to the manufacturing executive podcast. To ensure that you nevermiss an episode, subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player. Ifyou'd like to learn more about industrial marketing and sales strategy, you'll find anever expanding collection of articles, videos, guides and tools specifically for B TobManufacturers at Gorilla Seventy sixcom learn thank you so much for listening. Until nexttime,.

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