The Manufacturing Executive
The Manufacturing Executive

Episode · 8 months ago

Not By Accident: Risk Management for Manufacturing Executives w/ Van Carlson

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Risk management isn't an accident. If we're going to survive, then we have to plan for unforeseen events. Like 2020… and 2021.

But you can't insure everything, and rate increases seem to be hardening. What can manufacturers do to manage risk more effectively?

In today's episode, I talk with Van Carlson, founder and CEO at Strategic Risk Alternatives. Van brings to the conversation more than 25 years of experience in insurance. He focuses on solving client risks through risk alternatives and management.

Here's what Van and I discussed:

  1. What manufacturers can do about the increase in traditional insurance premiums
  2. How to prevent gaps in risk management strategies
  3. The risk management tools available to manufacturers


To ensure that you never miss an episode of The Manufacturing Executive, subscribe on Apple Podcasts, or Spotify, or here

I can't tell you me temes to set themeetings where they said. I've always wondered how I can manage everyis moreeffectively. I just didn't know this is the way you can do it welcome to the manufacturing executivepodcast, where we explore the strategies and experiences that aredriving midsize manufacturers forward here. You'll discover new insights frompassionate manufacturing leagers, who have compelling stories to share abouttheir successes and struggles and youill learn from btob sales andmarketing experts about how to apply actionable business developmentstrategies inside your business. Let's get into the show, welcome to another episode of theManufacturing Executive Podcast, I'm Joe Sullivan, your Houst and acofounder of the Industrial Marketing Agency GERILLU. Seventy six after ayear of unpredictability here we are looking at a future where the word riskhas a very different meaning to many of us, and my guest today is someone who'sbuilt. His career around Risk Management Van Carlson is here to talkabout exactly that, and specifically for the manufacturing sector. VanCarlson is the founder and CEO at Strategic Risk Alternatives as overtwenty five years of experience within the Risk Management Industry van beganhis career with farmers insurance group, as an agent eventually growing his bookto be among the largest in his home state of Idaho van focuses strategicris alternatives on risk management primarily and facilitates SRA, toassess and solve for the risks their clients have ban's primary goal is tocontinue the upward growth of SRA and continue to develop new products tobring the market van. Welcome to the show hey. Thank you for Avinmeon. Do Iappreciate H, you takin the time for me and give our message out there to yourelitening audience and look foward our discussion yeah me too. It should be.It should be great, so think it's a very timely topic, especially you justgiven the the craziness of the last year, so I guess before we get intoAdvand, can you start by just telling our listeners a little bit about howyou got into this world of Risk Management Yeah? So you know wersmanagement by accident, of course, thike most careers. I think, and nownowadays but yeah, so you know I got in Ris Management wasn't planning for it,so I got out of college and start woking for different jobs and oning myown business. I was always appealing to me, so it turns a running in the sursecompany allowed me to do that, and so that's how I got into it. I was prettysuccessful at it grew my Gr, my book of business in Inturance World Prwellenough to where I can start getting all my hats away to other people and hiringpeople and so forth, and I really kind of gravitated towards business ownersand really more of a insulting with business owners on wriss and that'swhat really elevated me to tikof myself, more o the wost manager than so manyoutsel insurance, and I think a lot of business offers today kind of have tohave that in the background and mean that they had either Loto insultingperson, buil Hano the risk more porfectively, because, unfortunately,risk is getting more and more complicated. I think our last yearproves that out to be the case when you know you don't know how good yourinsurance is going to be to need it and then sometimes you find out it's maybenot everything you thought it was going to be. So that's where the consultingcomes in for Brisk Management, and you know I really got into what we do today.Primarily it was in Oway areally had to do more, the Financbal Wat you o reallycal the great recession and that's. I became very waring that business ownersTik a lot of fundancial risks to running business every day and a lot ofthings are outside their control and when things like that happen, you knowhow do you mitigate that, and I saw some people that reulizing the toolsthat we offer our clients today, that not only did they survive with thedownturn, but they thribed it t and that's what I thought you know this iswhat this is. This was a smart money doath this is, you know they don't run.I The stock market when everybody's...

...buying it they. You know this is. Thisis how you you survive your company and you think of things outside the box,and you know unfortunatey. A lot of people think you know thust, becausethey haven't heard of this concept of some kind of form of risk mitigation.Yours mitigation, you utilizing tax, difer dollars out of the ropertycompany, doesn't mean they should. They should always look at all. The toolsare available to him and then make a decision if it's a tool for them or not,and and that's what really got me going into it and and then to you, know ththat brought me to consulteam with clients on a whole nother level, andit's really has to Doa with what we call unfunded risk on your ballancesheets right Ho, you get an a risk where you can transfer that to thetraditional inturns companies and in the B risk are unfunded risk and that'skind of where we kind of run in the between the band with the TAT. And sothat's, unfortunately, you know there's a lot of Bebe unfonted risks on theirbooks and you know sometimes Hey'e learned at the wrong time andunfortunately, a lot of clients did last year. I think Covid, nineteen, Ithink t you know just like the financial or the great recession. Whenyou come out on the back Ino these things, you will be a better businessowner for the sandpoint of the experience that you know. You live fromyour experiences and you know I don't think a lot of people. I don't thinkany base all this coming. Obviously, but you know going forward now, youknow and being better prepared for these unforeseen issues gives yourability for your companies to survive, and we all work too hard to run ourbusinesses and do all those things and then have something come in that we maybeen able to control better. Had We just known that certain things wereavailable to us and take advange of, and so we're excited about, the futureof our company. We seen a big upgrowth and clients understanding the concept Ijist mentioned the infunded, my abilities on your books, and how do youminigate that respect more effectively? That's Youliz in really a very littlenow tax coe, called eight Thrty D. There's two tax coades allows businessowners to defer income into thei business. One is a four Onek and that'sreally designed for their retirement, an their poys retirement and then theythirty on Beis the ability for your companys survive and related tounfunded risk. If I have a risk, tit's unfunded, I can't just take a dollarand set it off to the side and say y. If something this happens, I'm gon touse this dollar. Our current tax, Co in the United States says no, that'sincome Sol finturing risk is not a deduction and that's when Convesseintroduced, this tax code was really Ba. One thousand nine hundred and eightysix later to a beam farmers are finding themselves self inturing their propensurance private sectors are getting out of it, for you know for profit,insurance companies are getting out of it and now, of course, the government'sheavily involved in crop inshur, so different than they are with floodinsurance or earthquake zones, or even hurricane zones now were r they're suchcatastrophic advance. Only the government can really step in andinsure those types of risk, and so that's why the code was designed. Itwas really designed for unfunded liabilities and then course now Youve,fast foror. Thirty, someone years later, risk has gotten much more complicatedtechnologies. The supply chain Restat, were at looking at today, brandcoverages I mean I can go on on about the really the risks that traditionalturms companies aren't going to take on. We call it the INTANGAL assets of thebusiness versus the Tangibal. We think traditional teris companies do a verygood job. Insurin your buildings, your your imentory, your warehouse, allthose things. Those are the Tangelas tets of your business that typically,you deppreciate, where the intangl assets of your business is yourintellectual property, our contracts, your reputation of the community, allthose things, that's the intangible. I don't believe traditional ternscompanies do a very good job at all when it comes to covering yourintangible assets, and so what for your listeners, woint o? You just want tomake sure they understand it. You know most business owners understand theirinchurch policies, aren't going to come for everything they might see a policyas all risk and then that inch behind that wordeing is really the exclusionsthat they've been putting inthe policy. So you know if your policies aregetting wider, it's not because they're increasing coverages. It's reallybecause of pretty more exclusions of the policy, and so that's those sof.Those are things that we go in there...

...and we talke about recall is pesicallyto your listeners in the manufacturing industry. We have a lot of clients outthere that they know their risk is pitch when it comes to recall when itcomes to brand damage supply chain res Becaus huge today I mean it's almostthe news every day right now and I think a lot of Huys do with Coenineteen o plant shudting down here for thirty days and tapart not beingmanufactured ing time. All of those things and ef course that ripplingeffect throughout the supply chain risk can be quite degimental and ourpolicies are really designed to maintain the cash foer, the businessand and that's where we go in and kind of, you know, assess their risk and howdo we take care of some of these things in a way that that allows you in thefuture to manage that risks more effectively? And what are you hearingin regard to traditional insurance premiums, potentially increasing or theoverall traditional insurance market hardening, and is there anything thatleaders of manufacturing organizations can do about it? Yeah th, there's gonnabe a lot of things. Well, first off you can see the right in the wall I meanthe rates are definitely increasing. This year we've had a softine of themarket, for, I would say, thet, probably the last ten plus years. Quitehonestly, you know there'sjs going to be gafts of industries that may seeRitin increases because one thing or another, but overall rates have beenpretty steady, but we're seeing substantial, not tisdouble digets, butyou know we're talking like fifty sixty percent rate increases in traditionalinsurance companies and a lot there's a lot of reasons for it. I think NineteenAase is a big driver of that which's been a compression of competition.There's just been a lot of industries that an manufactures. Unfortunately,one of them that you don't have a lot of insurance carries outthere like usedto ten fifteen years ago. You know everybody everybody's kind of disect,the pie up WEU know what are their risk of appetite for this industry and youknow, and one might say, have: WE'VE HAD BAD Rit we've had a bad situation.Ere We're just going to get out of it and they'll go, do something else orstay you know, so I think over time all these insurance companies start tosplit up the pie to where hey. This is what we're good at this. What we'regoing to do. Unfortunately, the lack of competition in any of those industrieswill lead to highe rates just the way the world works right. So that'sanother reason why, as well, but what we're seeing more and more though, asbusiness owners that run a good operation understand their lostcontrols. Have you know good have good safety? Men Do all the things aresupposed to as a as a protection of their business from Abrsemenegagon SandLoe, because nobody wants Hav plams, I mean I make it very clerit clients, there's,never a good situation when you eed to have an insurance on. Thank God. PayThe premium never have a claim good on you, because you don't want to gothrough that right so, but at the same time, those operations,though, what we're finding is- and you know, they're O- obviously subsidizingthe ones that are the bad player, not necessarily bad players. I should saythat, but more of their operations, not as as well ran as yours, but you'resubsidizing those clients hat's just the way the insurance world works. Sowhat we're seeing with those types of clients where theyare already in a goodoperation, they have a little lots ratios and not stuff we're actuallyseeing them Takeng out a higher first dollar loss, and what I mean by that isa think of a deductibe on a car right. If I have a five hundred dollar dutcowan a collusion car sof, I'm driving the vehicle, and I slide into a lightpole due to ice orwhatever, I think, the first five hundred dollars a damage to my vehicle.My liability insurance will fix thaut life for nothing. I don't have to payanything out to fix that light and that's traditional insurances andthat's how it's works. Wut, we're seeing in the commercial side and orderoffset some of those premiums increases. The clients were on, take off morericks, so now they may take on insead of a five hundred dolar, a thousand ortwenty five hundrelar. We got to Gol for Cleson on to say a commercialvehicle they made one o five or ten Hsano and that Lors ar cost downincreases your risk, for you know more out of pocket and then course the firstour ofs on my builting chaance we're seeing a lot of that it with productbiability and we're also seeing a lot of with general ability insurance aswell, where they'll take on a higher...

...now that, let's take on anedoctol nowwhat that looks like is really the risk appetite to the client when they doinga well willing to do a twenty five. Fifty a hundred housand dollar risk ourfirst ar loss and is there an Aggurat Cap- and you know, there's some things:mechanisms to it. You just tot going to have a run away claim and have at riskof losing your business over a simple plain, but all that being said it with our program.What we do, though, as we allow you to build these reserves up, take the taxdeferral program that they thre Wunt, be allowed you to do and then build upthe cirplus and reserves into your own, your own vihicle. You Know InsuranceCompany bases what we would call it, and now you can now you're n a position,a tick on better risk you're using last year's profits to take care of thisyear's exposures, and that's US good risk. Ommidigation,that's just good business! You know. I know the PPP program was big for a lotof business owners. o I mean. Obviously that was huge last year when there wasa huge sous down and most business owners were forced to shut down. Butyou know that's the government stepping in and basically giving out a programand giving up the money. But for my point of view, I think most businessowners out there that want to run their own stip and starit on way. If there'sa tool like this available to hem, I think they olto themselves so todefinitely Sart in look into it and again, if you're having a good yearjust to take a little bit off the top of parket off to the side on a taxdeferral basis, which means you're expensive out of your operating company,instead of leaving it in there and paint taxes on it and and now you andnow stead of allicating the dollar. For my warranty or allocating my dollar,for my recall policy or my side, where all these other gap covers,unfortunately, that business owners Hav today, I could take this dollar now andexpense it on my operating company, and I still have that dollar right thedoors still sitting in the bucket over here. Well, you know if I got it. If Ihave this happening, I have to use this turancs company. It's not a good day. Ipromise you, but would you rather fight the fact with fifty cents or the on thedollar or the whole dollar? And that's really where that's a different chaterin the program? It gives you the ability to manage ris more effectively.I tollor clients one of the best bus best. Compliments we get from ourclients it s that hey then have been with your company for a while, but onething your company one thing your product does for me that would it justmakes me sleep easier at night, knowing that that money's talked off to theside, and if we mean it, we have it available. I don't have to go to a bank,get a bigger line of credit or ppul cast fol from this one side of thecompany and to put I puppit into this one, because we got a cash ollconstraint over here because of the unforeseeking issue that came up andagain, you know: Convresse is interested in business owner. StayingOpen, I mean payroll. Taxes is a big part of their tax program, is PAYWORLTAX, small business owners submit middle market business owners and largecompanies. I mean these are tools that are available to you that you may behearing about it for the first time, but just know that it's been around forover thirty years and I can proably so this big fortune, Pamarican bigcompanies have been newelises tools literally for decades now, and so againI can't reiterate enough that this, because it in it is still new to a lotof business owners. We believe, as a company, that this will become a normalbusiness practice and I think unfortunately, covid nineteen willprobably drive that home with a lot of business owners that there are a lot ofthings we knont. We can't find church WOROR, but we still have a risk so howwe manage it risks more effectively, and you know, unfortunately, taxes ispart of that I mean if I can avoid. If I can defer pain taxes today- and Iknow I have more moto of a what's- it called a war chest or its Arany Day,find down the road. If I need it, that's great now, if I don't need it, Isew my business, I walk away. Whatever happens, I can always shut theinsurance company down in the Nice thing with the Sea Corp, it comes outwit, capital Games ar dividends. Now you may win in that scenario, because,obviously you know an Escorpora S. Your Vido in the Sea Corp all thoseexpensors Ave being tax at today's rates down the road. We don't know,what's going to happen with the pack...

...thing right I mean it's just gitsdoesn't matter F, it gets kicked around all the time itjust it's just what it is, but certainly deferring taxes today withthe idea who, if, in the event you need, have yourbusiness survive, it can be game, Changer Tat', that's all really goodstuff van you've sort of mentioned covid. You know a couple times, and onething I wanted to ask you is because you've mentioned it to me is we weretalking leading up to this conversation that the pandemic is brought to lightsome gaps in traditional insurance and especially for manufacturers? Whatoptions do they have to prevent this in the future? We e. first of all, whatare some of these gaps and what options do they have to deal with that stuffgoing into the future yeah? So I think from my point of viewof that would be the supply chain. Risk, I think, is, is a glaring issue rightnow you know. In the beginning, everybody thought we were going. Tahave tremendous amount of supply chain, Rask, meaning the China was shuttingdown. You know there was going to be this huge. You know slack now it wasn'tas bad as I think people saw or you know what happened. Unfortunately, Ithink this year's Werewe're going to see the supply changer as kid is moreand it's really more in the technology. I think the example is Fort Right nowis going to have to shut down the Rafe hundre an fifty plants because twey'renot getting the chips, they need to continue manufacturing the number onevehicle they sell and you know that's horwd. You know what happens if you'rea smaller business and you're, depending on some of these differentchips and manufacturings, or this you know, call ofligion or whatever youwant and there's this you know it's it's kind of like this rippling effectyou know but cause one cause here, maybe I'm related today, but it doesn'tcatch up to you till four months later and its still, you know the cause andeffect happen when you maybe didn't think it was going to, and so I thinkthis year will be really interesting from that I mean I hate to say thisgood n rismanagement. I get a little geeked out on that stuff at I find itsomewhat interesting. I don't know if it's a sickness or what, but it's justthe causeand effects of risk is is dynamic. I mean as weird as that sentmay sound o a lot of your listeners yeah. So I think this year, supplychaine. Ris is going to be a big one. Continu, we think called ContingencyBusiness Interruption, Cau Thi as natural catastories increase. Justbecause my plant is not being affected, doesnit mean the highways, the roadsystems, the bridges and everything are shut down. H. They can't get to me andI can't get the them. We see that we've seen that recently with hurricanes andthat that's always been there, but the contigency business interruption. Ithinkis a big one. I think political risk is huge today in manufacturing,but you W dealsh foreign governments, but it's always been their form andthen the other ones would be. You know brand damage. Recall recall. Imean we know what he calls a challenge today, an a lot of THECHURC. You talkabout inchurch industry, where they've, really, you might only have less inthree companies that offer recall a real re. I would Saye robust to recallpolicies where you think. Okay, I'm going to be protected here in case wehave to do a recall on a product of manufactured. You know you're down tohthree companies, which means, if you have a serious claim, you think theother two carries you're going to want Whit your business. If you get, if youget non redewed by another recall and then youryou're obvuly going, you know,most companies are contractually obligated for their recalls. Today Imean it's not target or Cosco at recalling your product you're doing itright, you're bearing that cost, and so again these are. These are big issuespotentially for business owners of manufactory companies that inmanufacturers, Andis trugors that matter that they have exposure to, andso you know, unfortunately, it's not ' not like the insurance inditry,tomorrow's going to go out and say: Hey Yeah, guess what guys we're going TAwrite. A policy is going to cover everything. Don't worry about itbecause here's the problem with the insurance companies they at some point, you're not going towork just for the INURS company right. They can't just keep charging more andmore premiums and then you're going to keep buying their policies in the riskO warfactor running your business goes out the door. You got a other expensesout there and of all of a sudden. You got a thirty forty. Fifty percentincrease on on line out an that was...

...steady for the last ten years. You knowat some points the insurance companies you're not going to go to work for Myou're not going to take the risk. You do its a businessowner, so there's aprice point for them to so one way to mitigate that price point is by addingmore exclusions, so I think one ofthehins you're going to see afterthis year, 's you're, going to see more exclusions come into policies. There'still some challenges on a thing called Business Ip. So if you were forced toshut down by Missipalat or government fed or whatever, and you shut your plannow for two months you went to PPP, you got the BPP tocover your payroll and did all those things. But let's say there was otherexpenses rigke. Oh, I don't know loans on commercial building, all those typesof things that came in to play and the revenue was already strapped because itliterally started happeng right after the first of the year, which we knowmost business owners today. You know at the end of the year they're trying tocreate expenses and lower down their tax liability and then January one theyget the STARTA war zero right now now we gotto go on Sall manufactured getthe product Scool, and now we got to make profit and when you look at lastyear that happened the really started happening towards the end of the firstquarter. So now, you're Goin in the second quarternaor shut down and E,didn't Rey able to build up your cashflow reserves and now you're hopingyou know that the banks will cooperate with you. Governent programs come outand all these other things so there's a lot of business owners can do and againI think this tax poot allows you to do a lot of things more effectively andofficially that Lingon low you sleepeature at night. During thesetimes of and and here's the thing Joe, I don'tthink it's going to get easier or easier to mitigate risk. I think ofanything. Ris is going to get ratched up. I thinkyou're going to hear more and more about it. I think we're going to hear you know these. These tools will becomemore and more aware to business olders and I think you're, going to you'regoing to see these types of things com into play and, like I said it's goingto becomea normal business like a formal case, af normal businesspractice, you want to retain employees and create retirement for yourself. Webelieve owning that at a eght thirty one B plan is going to be no differentthan a four onk plan. Now, that's not to say that there's lots of rules andregulations with this program just like a fork, maybe not as complicated as aforol one kat time, but for will cats been on the books longer you know, butwith time a thr N B will have a clarifications. There's been someissues in the past want to make cure your listeners. You know that aregoogling tat task, Cote. You know, and I make it very clear to them that youknow. Unfortunately, it was hijacked by a sate tax attorneys that were sellingit more, not for mes many gauges, sandpoint, like we've, been discussingbut more from a state tax play for very wealthy individuals. Obviously, theyhave estate tax issues, great tax planning, but, however, when the Pathakbecame, I think the law was Signo Obama and I think it became effective. Thefirst year of the trump administration there were some changes made and theeliminated the estate tax play that you would have aner a thirty on B and froma standpoint of lineal descendants, any Ofer, mocal trust and all that stuff.It became clearer and congress past that law and actually in the PATHACK.So they elimidated that, however there' sill, some bad actors out there.Unfortunately yeu still preaching us more of a tax code, savings andarbitrives in a rool missment, real risk, minegation and y hope is, withtime those people just kind of go away and let the risk managers actually makethis program effective and efficient for ther business owners to recognizethe risk that they have. And how do you mengnit more effectively, and youcertainly should be doing it with taxtefor Oll dollars versus after tax dollars? It just gives you abigger war, cheste effect fight. Well van. Is there anything I didn't ask youthat you'd like to add to the conversation today? No, I appreciatethe questions I mean like I said you know. I think it surprisingly and Ishould be surprised by it, but there are a lot of business overs in itdoesn't matter what level in the spectum ye are an gos revenues, if fact,business or anything else that aren't aware of these types of tools hat areavailable to hem, and you know I hate that right. I mean these are tools and then me an for the right client.This is a great tool and that's all this is right. It's a tool in to chestdoesn't make sense to do it or not. Do...

...we recognize th risk that we're tryingto fun somehow with after tax dollars, but wouldnit be better to use texdeferral dollars, verso foremost, which a lot of that lies within the warranty,we're seeing me more and more all the time with the warranty aspect of youknow. In order to be competitive, you got to ad, you know you get very, verygenerous with these warranties and as even between suppliers or, if you', ifyou're, if you're B to be guy, I mean in order to compete out there, you gotto almost give the shop away to get their business. Unfortunately, and youknow, because they're on there own pressure on theire in to for theWARRANTHIES, I mean we call non mersibility warranty, which meansthat's tha, the Prodt of the fact that the customer, the incusfor, is didn'tlike it and whoever they bougtom from. Has this open ended, return politicythat Doy tell er, clients are doing it, but they're, not the ones honoring it.If you want to do business with them, you got to be the one in the backgroomdme it and so get. These are things that come up that you needod, you know businessorders Awere it's just and we've betoe. I can't tell you man times to set themeetings where they said. I've always wondered how I can manage everist moreeffectively. I just didn't know this is the way you can do it and so they'vegot a lot of clients like that that I literally just came from an appointmentwhere the client was like. I didn't know, I could do that. But do you knowmany times? I was worried about how much leep sleep I was losing and theywere more related to service contracts and for cuss up contractors and laborwarranties. This give m your Labor warrnty out to replace that product,and you know you got to eat it rigt as a labor warranty but anyway. So that's,that's kind of things that I would just bring up to is like if you're afteroffering warranties, you know how do you back those warkies up? Those areyou know. Typically, those are t onfunof liabilities as well, and theterms are just getting further an further out and it's like whoa thatthat's a that's a risk and- and I tell to Clints all time, wartys only becomeimportant when, unfortunately, the customer is Yo having a step back inlife economically, are the economies just taking a step back in general?That's when you're going to see a calls and increases of warranting claims.Well, that means, if you, if that's happening to your customer, it's morelikely happening. You too, your cashis becom AG constraint. Meanwhile, you'resee now uses your Warrnti Coa when it had been better in a previous years.What times are good just to put agive an a little bit of profits off to theside to park and recognize that risk into the future? A D and just be moreefficient with your business and again it's a great tool and for the rightclient hit, could be a game changer form. Well van. I really appreciate youtaking the time to share your knowledge today. There were a lot of really greatnuggets here and probably some things that our listeners could take away andthat they they weren't really aware of so thanks for doing this, hey it's myfledgure! Thank you, Joe Yeah. So what can you tell our audience the best wayto get in touch with you, where they can learn more about SRA as well yeah,so we make it pretty simple. Our websites et thrty onebcom petust, wentfacke that in thirty onbcom hat will go right to our website and in course,myteen. I've got a team out there. Professionals we've actually haveadvisors, all ver, the country that represent our products as well, soloving is information out there. I think that website, you know tdoe'swhat it's supposed to do supposed to give you informention, there's penty ofvideos, O watch and all that kind of stuff and en course, on there you canfind this directly. I think you hit the team and get the meet email, wise or Alyour you know our phone numbers on there and everything else so obviouslygo to the website at thirty onevcom and your listeners. An certainly startthere and if they have any questions or concerns by all meens reach, chactesdirectly, beautiful well van. What's again thanks for doing this today andas for the rest of you, I hope to catch you on the next episode of theManufacturing Executive.

You've been listening to themanufacturing executive podcast to ensure that you never missed an episodesubscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player. If you'd like to learnmore about industrial marketing and sale strategy, you'll find an everexpanding collection of articles, videos guides and tools, specificallyfor B to B manufacturers at grilla. Seventy Sixcom Ahalar. Thank you somuch for listening until next time.

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