The Manufacturing Executive
The Manufacturing Executive

Episode 91 · 6 months ago

Why Sticky Notes and Spreadsheets are not a CRM

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

How do you convince both reps and execs in manufacturing that the CRM is not a deterrent but a path to next-level improvement?

In this episode, I talked about how to overcome challenges to adopting a CRM with these three standout guests:

Join us as we discuss:

  • What a great CRM can really do for a business
  • Why reps are reluctant and how to persuade them
  • Pitching a CRM to the C-Suite
  • Practical tips for getting started 

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This has to come from CEO sales leaders executive teams and they have to embrace the crm and what it means to use the CRM and as if funnels down into the reps and other business units, customer service inside sales. They really need to understand that this is an all hands on deck team effort. Welcome to the manufacturing executive podcast, where we explore the strategies and experiences that are driving midsize manufacturers forward. Here you'll discover new insights from passionate manufacturing leaders who have compelling stories to share about their successes and struggles, and you'll learn from B tob sales and marketing experts about how to apply actionable business development strategies inside your business. Let's get into the show. See RM. Most of you listening know, at least to some extent, what a crm is, but I'd be curious how many of you could actually tell me what that acronym stands for. If you're scratching your head, no worries, I'll save you a google search and I'll just tell you crm stands for customer relationship management. For a lot of manufacturing organizations, crm is synonymous with a spreadsheet on someone's laptop, or a five by seven white board and your sales manager's office, or maybe some scraps of paper here, plus a couple of Napkins there. Come bind with a handful of me on sticky notes attached to your computer. Moonditor, I've seen it all and often, and my guests today see it even more often. They're here to tell you why that's a problem and what to do instead. So let me introduce them. Ron pretzy is senior enterprise executive for manufacturing at the account based selling software company prolific. Ron Comes from a background in manufacturing and steel distribution. Outside of work, Ron love spending his time at various Chicago land venues watching his kids play sports. Andy Keene is the VP of marketing and demand generation at the same company, prolific. Inside his work life he's passionate about BEDB marketing. Outside of work, he's chipping away at his bucket list goal of making it to all thirty Major League Baseball stadiums, with fifteen under his belt already. And finally, Dave sheer is the recently retired former CEO of the steel supply company, where he spent fifty one years. Dave is also a United States air force veteran. Ron Andy Dave, welcome to the show. Thank you. Thank you for having looking forward to awesome. Well, guys, we are headed into new territory here with this episode of the manufacturated executive. You are officially the first trio that I'm interviewing on this show. Most of my interviews are with the individuals. I've had a handful of pairs, but today you guys are making the first making up the first three headed monster on the show. So I'm excited to see what this dynamic looks like and and you guys will be the ones who determine whether I do it again. Perfect, awesome. Well, Ron and and you have a start with you guys, we have an overlapping audience,...

...frankly, in our respective businesses, which is the midsized bdb manufacturer, and I know from talking with you guys that we have both seen slow technology adoption in a lot of the businesses that we talked to and in particular when it comes there to their marketing and sales tex stack. So I'd look for you guys to tell me what you are seeing specifically with manufactures when it comes to their crm's perfect to in today's world. Still, in the manufacturing industry I think a lot of things are still a little archaic. In the front office reps, knowing from past experiences, are operating out of spreadsheets, Excel, power point. They're not really utilizing their crm. Past experience as well having having the binders of context, business card planners, all those things are still being regularly used in the manufacturing space and they're not really adopting their crm platforms today. Yeah, I think to add onto what run said, from my experience what I've seen, you typically see a crm implemented by, you know, an IT team or by ahead of sales. There's typically not a structure where you've got someone that's solely dedicated to the implementation, roll out, in continued evolution of the crm and how it's used by the reps, by your customer service team, by Your Marketing Team, and I think that's part of why there's been a challenge with adoption in the space. Specifically, is their needs to be someone who truly owns that system and in drives the behavior that sales leaders, that CEOS, you know, marketing leaders, are looking for when it comes to using. You know that your crn, whether it's seals force, Microsoft, dynamics, hub spot, there has to be someone leading that charge. And for me, that's one thing I've seen is typically it's delegated and it's someone's you know, twenty percent of their role, thirty percent of their role. It's really helpful when you've got someone who's solely focused on driving as much out of that system as possible. Yeah, you know, I see as a marketing consultant when we go in and talk to a new potential client. You know, everybody's interested in measuring results. Everybody needs to understand. I need to know what my drl is going to be on my marketing program and you know the proactive business development initiatives we were taking on. And so the first thing we do is a right, well, let's get inside your crm, let's let's let's benchmark where you're at, let's look at let's look out to the data. And most of them say, well, you know, we've got we've got sales force licenses for our team, but we don't really use it and we're going to come back around to that topic shortly on this conversation. But or they're using a spreadsheet or they've got a whiteboard or, you know, you said, binders like it is an analog methodology inside of a lot of these companies for how they are tracking all their data. And when you're trying to connect your marketing activities to what you're doing on the sales front and those two sides are as as aren't talking to each...

...other, really there's no way to you know, you need the right inputs going into a piece of software to understand the impact. So it's I think we share this pain here. This is going to be like a therapy session for all of us talking to each other today, right, exactly. So, I mean, can either of you guys talk about what you know about the history of crms and sort of how they've evolved over over the years, and particularly as they apply to the manufacturing sector? Well, I think you know the history has evolved. You know you have sales force, you have other crn platforms. They have come into the market space. That really expanded. You know the term crm and more companies are using them. Obviously I think manufacturing is still lag behind compared to the health and life sciences, Medtech and all those other market segments. And manufacturing is just starting to get into that. But I think manufacturing again still has that old school mentality on the sales side of it, and it's kind of the big brother mentality. Is Like I'm only as good as the information that I that I contain, and I'm only as valuable as the information in the relationships I have. And I think a lot of reps look at the crm as a deterrent, like it's a replacement to what I'm doing. So I think as a CRM's evolved, the trust factor of the reps have to evolve with it, knowing that it could be a beneficial to them and drive that revenue. It's not all about collecting data, it's more about the end result of revenue, driving revenue, revenue. You could have as much data as you want, but if you're just lagging on the inputs and not getting proactive and getting the outputs out of the inputs that you're putting in, if that makes sense, you're not you're not really utilizing your crm left. Yeah, and I think you know from when I started in my career with with you know, in the manufacturing space, first I saw sales force used more so for for support tickets in logging issues within an account, the less so than actually leveraging the system to be a center of truth that can really be a place where reps and sales leaders work together to drive growth, whether it's within existing accounts, whether it's new accounts that you're going after to hit your quota. I think that's how it slowly starting to evolve, as teams are looking at this and seeing the opportunity where you have multiple product lines, you sell in the multiple business units and there's an opportunity to take this from just logging issues to leveraging it. Is a strategic investment in technology to help you drive that, you know, consistent, scalable growth. So that's that's one thing I've seen change, I'd say, over the last eight to ten years, specifically when it comes to this space and how manufacturers are starting to use it. You know, especially if you're managing relationships with rep groups, with wholesalers, potentially with an inside sales team with, you know, field sales reps that are out in the field, there's there's a lot of moving parts. I think we're slowly starting to...

...see how sales force can kind of help connect all those dots and I think with that show to building out what and he's kind of saying is the face to face relationships. I mean there are still very, very important, but with everything that's happened over the last couple of years, they've kind of become less relevant. So real time information and transferring all that data amongst business units in real time is ideal and has to be done because if it's not, you're just behind the times and eventually you'll just fade away and you won't be able to compete on the global scale. So, guys, I see companies that we consult or just just companies that I talk to, investing tens of thousands of dollars into sales force implementations. You guys have said you've seen that number climb into the hundreds of thousands in some cases, and in a lot of these cases the software is and even being used, and so I'm just curious from your perspective, why does this wind up happening? Yeah, I can get this going here. To me, it kind of you know, goes back a little bit to what I mentioned a few minutes ago of not having someone directly owns it. I think as a business and as a leader in the manufacturing space. The way that marketing and sales teams look at trade shows is around alluded to it the facetoface interaction, as we look at sales kickoffs, you know, all these different activities and strategic initiatives that that sales and marketing teams and manufacturing companies look at as growth drivers. I think you need to look at your sales force and, similar what your investment in your crm, because it's at its core, that is what it's meant to help you do, to identify areas where you can grow within your key customers, to help leaders and sales managers identify where there's risk in losing customers. Understanding, you know, why is an account growing with us? You're over here, why are they declining? That's information that's really critical, you know, to understanding how you're going to continue to drive the business forward. I think, if you know, the mindset has to change of this being ten to twenty percent of someone's side Gig and a nuisance for reps to just get information into the CRM, and I think that will change when the data that's being input into the system is, you know, used in a strategic manner. To actually help them hit their goals and as soon as reps and sales managers see, you know, the results actually occurring because of the use of good quality data in the Crem, I think you're going to see that shift, you know, pretty quickly and you hit that dobt on. and to build on that a little bit, I think adoption from the top down. This has to come from CEO, sales leaders executive teams and they have to embrace the crm and what it means to use the CRM and as if funnels down into the reps and other business units, customer service inside sales, they really need to understand that this is an all hands on deck team effort and moving forward to survive, because the competition pool is getting a lot tighter. There's more people swimming in it every day and people offering different value added services. So you have to be a hundred percent invested in the customer experience and being...

...able to offer more to more customers and drive revenue within your current customers and opportunities. So to do that, I think it has to be an all hands on deck approach from the CEO down to inside sales and everything in between. Two really communicate amongst everybody and drive that team selling initiative. Is there anything you've seen sales leaders or presidents or, frankly, whoever winds up being in charge of a crm roll out? Things you've seen them do to make sure that this becomes an investment and not just some massive waste of money? You are there, incentives are there. Is it's some of it just mindset and somebody, somebody who's near the top of the organization, saying Hey, this is important and you need to do this. Curious what you guys have seen. I've seen a little bit all of it where it's, you know, it's a mandatory approach saying hey, this is this is what it has to be done, otherwise you're not going to be here. Or, you know, tied into complants where if you're putting in your inputs and we're gaining insights on accounts and opportunities, you know there's incentitives tied into building out account plants for the team. But I think overall what business leaders need to be doing is to not, especially manufacturing, not overload their teams with too much of the tool and kind of break it out in the phases to give that the original, you know, crawl, walk, run approach to where, a, we're going to do this in small chunks, let you get familiar with it, see some positive results and then build and add in other aspects of the tool and the crm to further for further growth, you know, down the line and bring it in in the phases of say, you know, quarterly or monthly, weekly, whatever, however your company is set up to do, you know, to to grow within the crm and not just dump everything on you know, I'll wrap and saying hey, here's the crm, figure it out. You have to input all this stuff and just add pylon. I think that's where the trust comes into play of Hey, we're working together, we're not working I'm above you, type of approach. Yeah, I think there's a lot of good tidbits in there. What I would say is one way you're going to get reps to use as salespeople are motivated by money tied tie compensation to you. Don't get paid for a new deal or for an expansion within a customer unless this is logged in sales force, because I've seen that used in it works. You will get people, sometimes begrudgingly, that start putting this kind of information and sales force if their compensation depends on it. So I agree with Ron that getting commission based on deals that are one that needs to be in the sales force and it needs to be well documented who was involved in that process. You know what we're threats that could have deterred the customer from choosing you. Why did they choose Your Business? Was the growth and upside potential? Look like so other other business units, you can sell to different product lines that they're not purchasing initially. That will drive that kind of behavior. And I'd say, secondly, that you need someone that's dedicated to training the reps and helping them to go step...

...by step with getting value out of the system. So I love that Ron said, you know, not putting too much on them at once. When you have someone that's focused and committed to helping your sales team get as much out of the tool as possible and taking incremental steps to master the system and see the value of why they should be using it, I think that's also going to help, and that comes from leadership downward. Of here's the current state and future state. This is why it matters and this is how it's going to benefit you, and I think that's the big selling point is, as a sales wrap, a sales manager, you have to sell why it's going to benefit them, specifically the time to learn how the CRM works, to work with someone who's dedicated to helping them, you know, learn more about the tool itself. That's how I'm sorry with it. So I'd start with tying it to commission and that also make sure that it's tied to you know, selling that vision and working closely with someone who's at an expert, and that's, you know, in sales force dynamics helps bought, oracle, sales cod, whatever tool you're using, you need someone who's an expert that can help the reps you get comfortable and what it does to Joe. It ties in other business units together. Being in sales for a while, I never thought I would work with the marketing department. Customer, Sir you there're certain departments that sales reps were kind of not used to working with, and being here at prolific, Andy and I working with marketing and sales together. Who knew that you would spend most of your time with other business units and other VP's of marketing and partnerships and all these different business units that you're working collaboratively together for. The main goal, which, and he stated eloquently, is drive revenue. We the main goal is to maximize profits and working together, I think, is the key to all of it. Yeah, I think you guys made a lot of good points there. You know, you think of a software like sales force, it's it can do a lot of things, it's it's a very customizable tool. It's got a lot of different functions. Not Everything's going to be relevant to your business. Some things should probably should be customized, and so I think you need to set your team up to be successful by understanding what you know, what pieces of the software are going to be most important, especially to get started. I liked your point about rolling things out in phases. It's very easy to get overwhelmed with new technology if it's not something you've been doing, specially when you're going from a spreadsheet or white board into, you know, a digital software for managing relationships and in putting information. So set them up for success and then give them in sent up to use it right correct. Absolutely well, Dave, we haven't gone to you yet and you've been sitting here patiently listening and I want to tap into your brain because you are a recent manufacturing CEO and a guy that you know. When I was talking to Ryan, said we got to get Dave on into this conversation because he's a guy who has, you know, seen the value in a lot of the things we're talking about right here in your years as a leader at the steel supply company. One of the things you told me, Dave, in a previous conversation was that one...

...of the biggest problems with sales teams inside of manufacturing organizations is that at some point sales reps move on to new jobs. Right, it just it's going to happen. Some some will stay around for a long time, others will be gone quickly, but at some point most people will move on to new opportunity and when they leave, their relationships and their knowledge go right out the door with them. So my questions for you are, you know, one, how do you mitigate that loss of data and and, frankly, just tribal knowledge, right, that comes along with having those relationships for years at a time sometimes then, on the flip side, how can you get a new salesperson up to speed on. You Know Company in Account History. Well, the knowledge is is a hard thing to replace, obviously, but one of the one of the biggest things is making sure that the company records are up to date based on the input that the sales person has given you. If you don't get good information from sales person and you don't know how to measure that, you certainly won't be able to train somebody, the new person, or you won't be able to incorporate it into the overall marketing plan of the company. So it definitely has some real significance on on where the company is going. The knowledge factor. You know, in the in the early days, everything was away. Before computer ice days, it was a copy of the invoice and a three by five index card with information on it. So it was much more difficult. CRM's weren't around in the manual system and when we did start going to computers, Crm was the furthest thing from the for the mind, which it shouldn't have been. It should have been right up there. Most sales guys like myself, when I started computering at home and in the early s with a good old trash a system. We use file program so all we had was telephone numbers and as we got more exotic, we learned how to expand that into what was the relationship with other accounts in that area, the ABC thing, eighty twenty percent, all those all those things you heard of. So when a new sales person came on, we could impart that knowledge on to them, but they had to be willing to do it and a lot of people my age were terrified, probably still our, of computers. They just didn't want to use them. So that that was the biggest part of doing it. As I said, on the second part, that are the training is imperative. You know there were there were early days when somebody would come in and you'd set them down and you say this is your territory, get out there and go sell. You'd hand them a print out and here's your customers and if you got any questions, call me, or you'd have work with inside sales or with purchasing, with one of the divisions, even in the warehouse for a couple days. But that wasn't their job. Their job was to sell and what the structure from...

...the CEO was get out there and sell. So you had to have all those documents and all that training and those sort of things that are CEO had to learn this well as a salesman. Yeah, I mean, well said I you've kind of I think you're answering the why question about, you know, for any manufacturing leaders listening right now saying like okay, whatever, what we do, we do now works fine. It's we've got our spreadsheets that this guy uses his notebook and this guy uses a spreadsheet in this guy writes is, you know, stuff on a white boarder or whatever. But if you are leading an organization or leading a sales team and you think about the points you just hit on, Dave, it's, you know, somebody goes out the door, all that information goes out with them and and if you're not logging that in some central place, how could you ever get another person up to speed? Imagine what the IT looks like that to start over on an account like that. So, I mean the case is clear to me. I'm listen, I'm a sales and marketing guy myself and I like that the three of you sort of shedding light on why this isn't just some you know, digitizing this kind of stuff is not just, you know, a nice to have it's really it's that important. Yeah, there area that you have to consider when you when you're not the owner of a company, is that most ownership. The first question out of their mouth is going to be how much is just cost and is it needed or is it a luxury? So you have to you was selling job is a CEO or sales manager or even a rep to the ownership as well as to your who you report to, that this is going to improve that bottom line. As round mentioned earlier that you're going to expand your business, you're going to have some positive areas that your you might not see right away. It's just like buying a new machine. What's the payback on it? So you have to honestly assess what that payback is. I went through that a rod or time, so I know. I bet you. Yeah, I bet you have, and probably a lot of different areas of your business. To Man, I think it's a good point. We have to you have to understand. You have to help help your people understand why this benefits them. To you know, like it's I mean it's probably just happens all the time. I new piece of a new machine and a piece of technology, new software, whatever. Gets thrown into the mix and because somebody decided it was important and it never really gets communicated throughout the organization what the purpose is here, what the benefit is and and why, you know, everybody being on board is so important. I think that's the leader's job to do that. The whether it's CEO or president, or it's the VP of sales, who's managing it a group of people. So that's a good point day. Yeah, I would look at it as well as how can I hop is this going to make me more efficient? Is this going to simplify my day and is this going to equal me making more money in the in the year? You know, am I going to win more deals doing this? How is this going to simplify my...

...life and make me more efficient to cover more ground? If it's more time consuming and I'm not seeing the benefits of the tool, it's useless. So I think just seeing those results and having these conversations and communicating drives that drives the value of the crm and and the tool and all the data that's being in put one last one small thing I'd had there is whoever's helping lead this implementation map out in the line with the team on what are what are milestones, are quick wins and that way, even though it's a longer journey, potentially you feel the progress going forward. That'll keep people energized in orivated to continue to use it. Another area, aside from when you are getting back to what you were saying, Joe, getting back to when a sales rep laves, what happens if, for senior buyer at your number one account leaves? So there again, your salesman goes to make a call, he's out in the cold because all of a sudden that guy is in there and you haven't heard of it. So if you have these records available to you, some kind of a crm, whatever the chain is, you know who the engineer is, who the purchasing manager is, that can open the door to the new purchasing person for you. Great Point. So I think the the record keeping it. When we changed area codes are all the telephones all those years ago, back in the Snarlett we didn't have the right area codes or anything. We relied on the salesman. We had to have somebody manually go in input that. Now, if you had the modern CRM's, all this information could be updated remotely. Yeah, that's a really good point. It's really interesting talking to you guys because you've got a different perspective on crm than I do. For me it a lot of times of my clients. It's about making sure we can measure the impact of a marketing initiative and what's working and what's not, and connecting the dots between revenue and marketing activities and everything that happens in between. And I like here and you guys talk about it from the standpoint of relationships. Of Frankly, is where crum came from in the first place, customer relationship management and having clean records and up to date information. So hitting his hitting this from a lot of angles are I really like it. Now one thing I want to get into here is, like sales for specifically, kind of the the, you know, the mother of all CRM's, at least in the types of companies we talked to, and the most widely used. You know, there was sales force at one point. Now you have this whole ecosystem that has emerged around sales force to specialty tools and, you know, various apps that tap into it and serve different purposes and and I know that's you know kind of the world of a prolific where the two of you come from Indian run. Can you talk a little bit about what prolific is and how it fits into the crm mix? Yeah, prolific is a native. Well, prolific, we are a native to sale force partner, so we assume all the data sets that sales forts does.

So we could only work with people who have sales force as their CR where native sales force APP that specializes in strategic account planning, key account management, relationship mapping, kind of going back to what we've just talked about, where day've mentioned understanding the hierarchy, understanding the people that you need to talk to within an organization, whether that is various inside sales people, sales leadership, executive leadership, purchasing, procurement and so on, and then we kind of tie in all of that within sales force, within your platform or dashboard add on that could download in five minutes to where you could see that visually all in one specific location within your account or opportunity. So if you're building out a map for an opportunity or a stakeholder, that's one visualized location that you could see it and build out key personas within that account or opportunity and everybody can see it in real time, and that's kind of the the aspect that I found that's the most intriguing is you could validate who you need to talk to and all the different relationships within that account in real time. And then on the other side of the APP you're building out a complete account plan to where you could visualize and see and log and chart white space opportunity. So cross out up up upset opportunities within your accounts or opportunity that you you might be able to get and achieve to drive that revenue. And then finally, on top of that, you have real time insight, so somebody like the CEO or sales leader could go in and see the help of the account, see what what needs to be worked on, seeing how you're progressing that a counter opportunity and where you need to be to grow that account or land that opportunity. Yeah, I think Ron hit on a lot of things. At high level, it's to help centralize all of that key account informations, typically sitting in a spreadsheet, a sticky note, a Whiteboard, a slide deck. It brings it into one location where your customer service, your sales, your marketing teams, leadership, all is visibility in one place to very easily and dissect what is going on within whether it's a new pursuit, new business you're trying to win an existing customer. I think it does a nice job of providing that visibility into WHO's potentially derailing your deals, who are your supporters, your champions that have used your product in the past. I mean, Joe, you touched on crm is meant to be. It's built around relationships and I think that's something that this solution does really well, is it helps you really clearly identify and understand where you have existing relationships and where there's still work to be done in order to ensure that you're not losing that account to a competitor potentially. So it's a great way to bring all this information just into one place and Joe would it. Also, it does what we hear a lot of and we kind of talked about a little bit earlier. It enforces sales force adoption and it's keeping your reps living in breathing within sale...

...force. They're not going outside the tool and duplicating efforts. Are Duplicating work. They're living in, breathing within the crm platform of sale force. So they're constantly working inside the walls of sale force. So it's they're learning and becoming more familiar with the tool and this are soft ore add on helps helps drive that because it forces them to be in there as as they're growing their business and their accountsant opportunities. Yeah, really good stuff there. You know, I anybody who kind of follows what we do at Gorilla, we talk a lot about in the manufacturing sector, especially for companies who sell something that is you know, it's very relationship based. It's a consultative sale. It tends to be a longer buying process in some cases. Like you're talking to engineers, probably different types of engineers. You're talking to plant managers, you're talking to the CFO, you're talking to CEO, you're talking to procurement and yeah, the person in procuremen might be the person right in the check but there are relationships that happen all throughout that organization, from very early in the buying process all the way to purchase order, and it's so important you. I talked to it from a marketing perspective because I'm a marketing guy and I know this is the situation I run into all the time with our clients. But to be able to have all of that data logged and understand who those key, I call them, buying process influencers are and to know where the holes are and to know who in your organization has relationships with them and what communication has happened with those people and what communication probably still needs to happen is super valuable. So I can see the importance of everything you're talking about here. It's basically just putting the puzzle pieces together if within within that a counter opportunity, and putting the puzzle pieces together to grow that account, to drive to drive more revenue and just gain more business and gain market share. And it's a simpli simplistic term. It's just connecting the dots. Dave, you you know, I know you you were you exited or retired from the steel supply company before a tool like prolific would have been in your hands. But I'm just kind of curious when you look at a tool like prolific or even some of the just the software in general that is has evolved in come about around crms and relationship management like. How would you have used a tool like this? It would have been very good for manufacturing. It would have been excellent for forecasting and there again, as a training tool. I think there were some real positive parts of it. A little bit that I've seen, a bit that could be used to make everybody a little bit smarter about the customer that if you look at this and say you're doing fiftyzero a year with this frout, but what areas are you missing out at? It lets you...

...isolate what the target is and helps you get to that point, I would assume, but it's it just is that a point where it it's a needed extra to help your business move forward. If you have any kind of a quality system like Isso or something along that bind you really should incorporate the crm thing into a KPI that you can have a signable to a certain group and they have a management you process handle and to look at all this because there again, if you're selling this to ownership or stockholders, you're going to be asked what the return is, and a good crm program has a variety of returns. We had internal ones that we wrote, but they weren't as good as this. I mean we couldn't target certain areas and we couldn't we couldn't forecast certain areas. That was still left up to the sales rept to input. Great stuff there, Dave Ron Andy, for manufacturing leaders and sales leaders listening today, is any parting advice you want to leave them with about getting started in terms of moving from analog to digital methodology with your sales data and information about relationships? Yeah, let's say starts long. Fine, find one team. Don't make this bigger or more complex than it needs to be. Find a specific sales team and a sales manager that is known for driving different initiatives that's a little different and how they think potentially more progressive and now they think, and that'll kind of be your trial group to see if this kind of approach can help. So you don't make this bigger than it needs to be. I said, I'd say to start, find that small group, find a way to identify some quick wins and then you can evolve from there. And he kind of stole my thunder on that one, but I would agree with them wholeheartedly that you need to go back sales leadership needs to go back to the men and women. I guess they are on the ground working, you know, daily with their customers, find out their pain points, find out their needs and wants and build the platform around what would benefit their their employees and the people that are going at it every day. Again, make them more efficient, make them simplify their lives. I know there's a lot of methologies out there. I followed the kiss method, you know, keep it simple, stupid, you know, just very simple stuff, just to get in and dated with it and then build from within and then grow from there. I would add from a managerial point too, if you're, if your organization is committed to continue US improvement, is there a product or is this something that you can utilize that will help you get to that next level? Will you people sign arm to it? Do you have the people...

...and it's just the there's a myriad of questions there. It could be answered, but continue us some improvement is probably the single most important part that I would assigned to it. Guys, this is a great conversation. I really I think the threeheaded monster thing worked. I might have tried it again with somebody else, but you guys set set the bar high for it, so I appreciate you doing this today. Can you give you tell our audience where they can get in touch with you and where they can learn more about your respective organizations? Sure, I could be reached at Rondat pretzy at prolificcom. You could find me on Linkedin or on our website at prolific dot ai at any time. Would love to discuss some further detail and see if there's anything that we could do to help you out or just give some guidance as these companies continue on their journey. Yeah, similar to me. You can find me on Linkedin, Andy Keene, the Kae Hn as the last, and feel free to reach off you've ever got any questions or you know, want to hear from others who have taken a similar journey that you might be taking. Happy and make references and introductions. And I'm on Linkedin as well, and probably get hold of me for Ron. I haven't changed my phone number yet, so you knows. There you go. Love. Yeah, Dave, I think I noticed title on on Linkedin says at home, which is exactly what it should be. So very good. Well, guys, I appreciate all three of you doing this today. Is a really helpful conversation. I learned some stuff and I'm sure our list listeners did too. So thanks for joining my APPREEC Joe. Thank you so much. Thank you, thank you. As for the rest of you, I hope to catch you on the next episode of the Manufacturing Executive. You've been listening to the manufacturing executive podcast to ensure that you never missed an episode. Subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player. If you'd like to learn more about industrial marketing and sales strategy, you'll find an ever expanding collection of articles, videos, guides and tools specifically for be tob manufacturers at gorilla seventy sixcom learn thank you so much for listening. Until next time.

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