The Manufacturing Executive
The Manufacturing Executive

Episode · 3 weeks ago

Your Guide to Trade Show Booth Success w/ Jon Franko & Matthew Sciannella


There are a couple of super easy ways to totally flop at a trade show:

Not having a live demo. Not having enough personnel. Not prioritizing relationships. Not being selective with products. Not having strategic marketing on the other 363 days of the year. Not understanding the economics of the entire endeavor.

Okay... more than just a couple.

In this episode, I interview Gorilla76’s Matthew Sciannella, Thinker & Strategy Director, and Jon Franko, Thinker & Founder, about all things trade shows.

In this episode, we discuss:

- The future of trade shows in light of the recent past

- What makes a successful booth

- Why marketers should help their customers network with each other

- Some trade show math about whether it’s worth it

- Smaller footprints, bigger impact    

Check out these resources we mentioned:

- Matthew’s article, “The economics of your trade show are broken. Here’s the fix.

- The Industrial Market News Show    

Subscribe to The Manufacturing Executive on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or our website.

Listening on a desktop & can’t see the links? Just search for The Manufacturing Executive in your favorite podcast player.

If you're sitting there and yourbanking, your entire lead generation strategy for the year on a couple oftrade shows, you are going to have a miserable time getting any success outof your marketing. Welcome to the manufacturing executivepodcast, where we explore the strategies and experiences that aredriving midsize manufacturers forward here, you'll discover new insights frompassionate manufacturing leaders who have compelling stories to share abouttheir successes and struggles, and you will learn from B to b sales andmarketing experts about how to apply actionable business developmentstrategies inside your business. Let's get into the show, welcome to another episode of theManufacturing Executive Podcast, I'm Joe Sullivan your host and a Co founderof the Industrial Marketing Agency guerilla. Seventy six! If there's onething that all manufacturers seem to have in common it's this, they lovetheir trade, shows for some, it's legitimately a top business driver fromone year to the next. For others they like to pretend it is, and some just doit because isn't going to trade shows just what manufacturers do. Regardlessof what camp you fall into the last year and a half has rocked the tradeshow landscape and it's made most organizations think really hard abouthow their trade show strategy needs to evolve, fresh off Fab tack, TwoThousand and twenty one. My two guests today will talk about what theyobserved from: What's changed since pre pandemic times to some unique ideas anduses of space that they witnessed to where they see missed opportunities formanufacturers at trade shows and how they envision trade shows evolving inthe years ahead. My hope is that this conversation will spark some ideas foryou, regardless of what your trade show strategy looks like headed into twothousand and twenty two. So, let's get into it John Franko, my businesspartner of fifteen plus years now is thinker and founder of girl. Seventysix John, was named to the twenty ten St Louis Business Journals thirtyhundred thirty class and was named one of the St Louis's top youngentrepreneurs by small business monthly he's a graduate of the Focus SaintLouis Emerging Leaders Program and as a member of the forty second class ofleadership. St Louis John is a passionate Missouri Tiger and loves tospend time in the outdoors hunting fishing biking and running in July oftwo thousand and nineteen. He ran across the state of Ohio, a hundredseventy four miles and six days to raise money and awareness for MS run.The US today he's an ambassador for the organization. John has served as aboard member for launch St Louis Co founder and the Friends of Clifton Park,Co founder and brightside St Louis. He volunteers with big brothers, bigsisters, eastern Missouri, serving as a big brother in August of two thousandand twenty he was nominated and selected for the Hero's heart award.John, currently sits on the board of trustees, and it is the vice chairmanfor the Gateway Arch Chapter of the national, Multiple Sclerosis Societyhe's active with bike. Ms Governance and community engagement committees inearly two thousand and twenty he was...

...awarded the Community Awareness Awardfor the chapter for his fundraising and mentoring. Efforts. John is a graduateof the University of Missouri School of Journalism. Matthew Chinela is amarketing professional of nine plus years. He started his career. Doingtechnical and proposal writing for AE companies before transitioning todesign build construction there. He was introduced to marketing where hestarted with content, marketing and website development in two thousand andsixteen mat move to welding equipment maker, Abaco Binzel, where he wasmarketing manager. Before moving to marketing director of the United Statesand Canada at Benzole, Matt evolved the Marketing Department from a printed, atrade show approach to an inbound content and demand generation modelexpanding his program to other areas, including Mexico, Brazil, Germany andthe United Kingdom, and helping to get regional programs off the ground.Matthew moved to the Financial Tech Startup Company gravy to be theircontent director before returning to the industrial space, a strategydirector here at girl, seventy six just over a year ago, and that role thathelps lead overall strategic direction. For both gorilla and our clients, manJohn Welcome to the show it was going on again. So you thanks for having, asthat was a really long intro. That was really that was very long for both ofyou, but usually it would be fine for one. I had two of you and I probablyshould have made you trim them, but you know time is of the essence here and I,like the the ego boost, so it was nice all right, so you guys have both youguys. Both went to fade, bless moto. You represent a gorilla there Matt, youhave been there a handful of times over the years. I know- and I wanted to usethis podcast episodes as jumping off point for talking about. Where do wethink trade shows are headed in the future, so I want to kick this off you.You both mentioned a few creative ideas that you saw a Sabec. So let's go there.First, you like share what stood out to you in hopes of maybe inspiring someout of the box. Thinking for our listeners, yeah I'll, just throw thatto this is my first time going to this trade show. I Know Matt had has beennumerous times and to a lot of other industry. Trade shows, but it's kind ofdiscussed if we're going to be talking about trade, shows a lot. We kind ofneed to put our money where our MOPAS and go see them ourselves and walk. SoI didn't really know what to expect, but there were two that really jumpedout to me and I'm thinking about it. There's that that path, robotics booth,it just was exceptionally well done. It was very experiential and you kind ofwere invited into their space, and I thought that was interesting and thenthe other one that just blew me away. I told the story a million times, but Ijust was walking by a TV, and I hear a guy on a TV say: Hey you in the BlueGarillas. Seventy six shirt I like stop like. I thought it was just a recordingand it was, and it was actually somebody live from company headquartersin Australia. Inviting me in to do a product demo via you know the sametechnology, we're using right now, so that was the one that just made merealize like whole week out. This is really interesting and a really coolway to sell in a cool way for them to not have to bring all this equipmentand save on a ton of cost, but still...

...have a really effective display there.So those are the two that jumped out to me and that company was called Ansata.Their product is called Tig brush and these guys are actually going to be onthe show coming up here shortly. So I was curious to hear about you, they'vereally embraced live streaming and they found out how to apply it in the tradejust setting, which I think was great. So how about you mad anything inparticular, strode out to you. Well, the size of the floor stood out to me alot someone is exhibited at that show four times I was about that timeattending. You know you used to seeing wall the wall and all the directions.The auxiliary areas well of of hall, be to believe, is the hall that we were init just being like completely stocked and like they obviously bless people atthe show. Less exhibitors, there were some very sizeable people, notexhibiting, and so it got cordoned off, and so the footprint was a lot smallerand that was that was very off putting the look at especially if you've donethe shows, often as I have- and you know as soon as you walk in you're,going to see the biggest walding company in the world first and then theone who probably has the biggest social media presents and the most influenceare marketing in the back and they have very distinct colors, and you knowthey're going to run huge events all show they were not there, and so thatwas to me really surprising. Those who stood out at the show I thought werecompanies who tried to embrace being different. I also thought mostlycompanies who have been doing a good job. Marketing outside of trade showswere that did really well for themselves, and so I just think,there's very obvious momentum to be had from doing marketing, good thounded andsixty five days a year and then watching that still over and how manypeople were visiting your booth and so path. Robotics sit out and Kalasa wasanother one to sit out. They had a nice be brand that they had done, and Ithought it was very noticeable yeah. I agreed with that. You know, take brushstood out as well. For me what about that? All the you know the companiesthat were doing like software as a service, you couldn't get it, youcouldn't get close to their, but yeah I mean they were. The SASS companies thathad some focus on manufacturing were telling me how they were extremely busy.Zometing one machine, metrics being another. papalist parts seem fairlybusy too, so there were just they were definitely like the ones. Those weresmaller footprints, smaller delegations, a lot less investment up front. Youknow when you do when you're not selling hard goods, you don't need thespace necessarily to sit there and and place your products, but they all toldme they had great results throughout the show. They thought the quality wasreally high. The theory was that people who did come were very serious aboutcoming. That's certainly an hypothesis that I think has merit, but overall itwas. It was less people than past years for Chilo Chicago and the ExhibitorList was definitely a lot sor. That said, yeah those were the companiesthat I thought stood out. It was cool like our friends over Ragau and we wentby their booth like it was an...

...opportunity to like. Actually you know,we've been helping them with. You know their marketing and it was helpful toactually see their instruments and be able to touch them and hold them andask a lot of questions. I think that was like, if I think about it as abuyer, I think anyone where you could test something or see it or whetherit's software or whether it's some sort of device to get a do point reading orwhatever. I think it's always those people really stuck out to me so matt,you and I were recently talking about how companies that exhibit at these bigtrade shows tend to go in with very little strategy. And now you you'vebeen inside of manufacturing companies, whereas John and Eric or agency guys.Maybe I seen this from both sides, but what I like, let's talk a little bitand John Jump in your to, but like what do you guys think that manufacturersneed to be doing ahead of time during the show and also after the show, toactually get the most out of this investment as opposed to to showing upand hoping that people then show up at your boot? I think part of it dependson what you've invested in marketing personnel lie already for a lot ofmarketing professionals who do these trade shows just getting the booths stood up andgetting your delegation in without there being a hitch is a full time, jobkind of all, all on its own sort of going in going into fad tech, and so wetalked about we. Why isn't there a lot of strategy around it? It's because theeffort of planning like your products in your trade and your materialhandling and your labor and all the other aspects that go into making atrade show if you're not doing it you're around. If it's like the? What,if you do it once or twice a year, you know it's a huge lift on your time, andso that's why it's not a ton of strategy that goes in. Do it from for alot of companies that I see so the question about how companies can domore. A lot of that has to do with collaborating more with your with yoursales team or getting a look into your cram and having a sense of WHO's goingto be exhibiting or SAR who's going to be attending there, who, maybe you havein an early stage pipeline opportunity. I think another thing that I noticedwith people doing trade shows in general, and the industrial side islike there's those who do real demos and there's those who do simulateddemos and you're really only going to get interest in your booth. If, ifyou're doing a real demo like you're paying for gas you're paying for thirtyamp outlets, Europe, you know really gonna make things light up and sparkand you're going to be welding or cutting or forming metal or whatever itis you're doing at that show, and if you al to actually do a live demo onyour booth. Well, you know that's a good time to bring early stageopportunities, primary contacts, who maybe haven't done a lot demo of yourproduct. Before maybe your says, Guy has something scedule with them andgive them a chance to demo the product there on the floor before having to godrive out to them and do it or leave it or leave a product there or have themfly out to you. If your product is so...

...big that you can't even do it that wayinject the product out. So I think you know using the trade show to do livedemos on your early stage. PITPAN opportunities is a really good is apretty sound way to go. It just involves doing a lot of collaboratingwith your sales team and having them call on people and knowing who's goingto be there and then scheduling time to make sure that whatever it is, y'allwant a demo is available and that other people don't have a demo scheduled atthe same time, and so there's like no vark technologies who's. One of thethis is was one company who does that really well and to tabhair things theydid do because her their product takes so long to put together and it's sosuch cat backs in three hundred thousand dollars or something like that.Each and so you know people go to the show to demo the product they bringtheir pipe samples in and they fit it up and and they welled in in front ofthem and show them all the day to acquisition that it does and the sortof all the camera angles that it able to grab in their recordings. And thingslike that- and it's really smarter than to do that. And then they have othertimes where it's kind of open schedule. And so people can just kind of walk upand just do like a walk by Demo. But you know they know that the show forthem is getting their pipeline opportunities in to get a live demo,because it's hard to do that. Otherwise, so companies who do that, I think tendto will tend to get more out of the show. But even still I mean you're.Looking at your looking at things that are already a pipe on they're trying tohelp clothes, so I think it tends to be how you look at the investment in thefirst place. I was going to also comment on. I was in terms of the postshow follow by I've just been. I don't want to say, surprise it's kind of whatI expected, but I've seen a lot of bad marketing posto a lot of like hey.Somehow somebody got my business card, I'm clearly not in the target audiencehere, but somehow I just got thrown into like the the churn and burn emaillike list, and you know there s it's all the stuff we talk about not doingit, hey, look how great we are, instead of sending me any sort of content thatcould be even if I was a buyer being being relevant. It's he here's athere's, a listing of our latest catalogue or whatever it's just you seethat stuff and you're like man you could. You could be doing so much moreyeah. I think one thing as an attend that you notice, when you go to theshow, is how much evone markets to do the same after the show right and sothinking about what you want to do in terms of execution is like, I think, isbearing in mind that you are one of fifty sixty seventy eighty companiesthat to whose bag got scanned right like this person, whose bad you justscan. Well, they just got scanned by eighty other companies as well, sothey're probably going to get anywhere between fifty and seventy five, becausesome of them will just not bother do anything follow up whatsoever outreaches afterwards. It's going to be from sales people, one to one. It'sgoing to be automated email nurture! That's going to be people getting intoyour news letter. It's going to be your weapon! Are that you're running nextmonth right! So what are you doing to stand out post show with I anythingdifferent so that you're, not the same...

...industrial company, doing the samehomogeneous, follow up that everyone else is doing that isn't that is, andnobody is going to act on aside from the one person who probably would havebought from you in the first place, because their need was so great andthey saw your I mean they probably already contacted you with that. Atthat point, right, they're, like I saw this company, I saw this product. Itwas exactly what I was looking for. You know they didn't need to follow up,they knew they're. All I got to they got to call this company immediately.So just think about ways. You could stand out a little bit more on thosefollow of executions, doing some personalized gift, giving somethinglike this is a area where direct male can actually help you just anything tostick out in that regard, or you know if you did a good job with with yourbadge scanning and you note taking, and you found someone cool if you have agood content program like if you have your own news letter or if you haveyour own webinars series or be have your own podcast, inviting one of thosepeople on to just be a guest on it and collaborate with them instead of tryingto just nakedly sell with them, which I think is what most people go out and do,and so I think that's where a lot of the follow up tends to fall flat isbecause it's all really the same and no one's taking a more patient approach,with an understanding that it's relationships that drive you forward atthis point, and you know really once you turn the relationship and to turnthe relationship making into something more transactional. After the show, youkind of miss your chance to develop that over time. Yeah, that's goodcouple, quick, builds on what you guys said there you know, John. I think yourpoint about, like all the noise after a trade show, don't be a part of it thinkabout how how you feel when you get solicited like that in ways you don'twant, so consider that when you think about how to follow up first of all andthen mad, I think one point you made early on there was that I really likedwas going in with some. By being intentional, I think I had a time about.You know who's in your pipeline, who might be at this show, and you know,invite them to your booth, set up a demo ahead of time at a specific timeor no mad, when we were talking the other day in preparation for thisconversation, you say you said well what about parallel events like ifyou've got ten, really great prospects. He you know we're going to be there andthey're. Already in your funnel, how about making us you know, setting up aside trip to John You'd like this one to go, duck hunting or something rightlike or whatever, even rent out, the bar next door? I think Matt youmentioned that one like. Could you host a private event and have it planned outahead of time and invite people who may not even be going to the show, but itmight make them come to the show? There's cold, be so many people in oneplace at the same time, and I think it's just a Misoponia to not be able toengage people in some more meaningful way. So and like I saw it, you know, Iwould can't remember what night we there there. We, I think it was whenthe cardinals were on that crazy run. They were on so I was trying to catchbaseball games at night and you'd sit and like at the hotel bar and like thatthere was business being done there,... you know what I mean like the thepeople had hung out all day or maybe not hit on out all day that they hadconnected at the trade show. Then they were meeting up for drinks. They weregoing to dinner after they were doing these. Like breakout events. So almost-and I mean it's very apparent that that's still where a lot of businessesbeing done, it's relationships right yeah. I think you know with a lot ofcompanies. They want to try to sithen that off and so they're like well. Letme take my one big account to general. Let me take my major distributor out todinner, where I think, what's cool that you could do is find you know if youknow you sell like the top electric car maker and they use your laser product,and then you have like the top agricultural machinery maker, and youhave a really good relations with her wealthy engineer, and you have a reallygood relationship with this guy who works at Haliburton, or something likethat. You know if you have these relationships with these people and youhave a chance to kind of bring them together for, like a group meal, thesepeople don't compete with each other really for anything. But if you have achance to be the lynch ban or the centifoil force around what makes thoserelationships happen. Now you get to be the company that helps produce thenetwork effect for others in the space trying to either get better or want toknow best practices or looking to borrow techniques from other industries,and I think, where a lot of companies they want to try to keep these accountsapart from each other. Would really it's interesting is to bring themtogether and try to you know, see what the conversations are like and you getto be. The person who helped put that together and you get to sort of be afly on the wall and just observe it. So I think there's power in helping yourcustomers for relationships within their network and you putting thosesituations in place and you as a marketer, have a chance to make thosethings happen, especially if you're able to put a really cool small eventon for, like you know, six, seven, eight, nine ten of your best customers.You know another thing that I think is t an opportunity. I saw this going onlast week. It's we're recording this on October, eighteenth, here in twothousand and twenty one and last week in Memphis, there was the autonousmobile robots and logistics conference going on in Memphis and a kind of a lotof people that a following connected to on linked in a few, namely Chris Lukey,Aaron Prather, Jake Hall, the three of them were, they were, I think Chris andJ. I don't know if they subleased booth space from somebody or what they did,but they had their podcasts set up. Chris Lukey runs manufacturing happy. Iwas actually like. Recording podcast live right there at the show, which Ithink is just so smart and whether it's you know you as a manufacturer,recording a podcast which maybe you know not your world yet I should be. Wecan talk about that, but creating content of some sort that can alsodouble as market research. I watched the guys at industrial sage. Do this acouple of years ago to him for getting off hand what show it was, but theybrought their cameras, their heavy... like their. You know theirvideo equipment and they walked around and they interviewed at, like you know,fifty or a hundred people that are right in their target audience oncamera and they create a content al out of out of that. So I think that's anopportunity there for any manufacturers who have a strong marketing arm. Couldyou be live at a show interviewing your prospects? Turning that into contentthat can serve, you can serve those prospects and hope you buildrelationships with those people in double as market research, frankly sokind of just throwing that one out in the mix as well. So all of this stuffconsidered John Matt, where do you guys think trade shows are going? How do youthink if you look out into the future three or five years from now? What doyou think will be different now versus what maybe has happened in the lastthree to five years? You know, I'm mad you'RE gonna have a lot more thoughtson this than I am again. I V A e. You know, as I said earlier, I don't have aton of experience or I don't have a lot of things to compare this to in termsof how it has evolved already, but I think you know the thing I kept hearingwas smaller crowd, but the people who are here were having really goodconversations with because, if you're going to travel during a pandemic andduring you know, whenever there's health stuff going on like you have tobe pretty serious about it, I also think like the evolution of the boothis like if you're running the same ole like as man always says, running thesame playbook where you've got you know, you've got, I don't know, stress ballsand t shirts, and you know that's how you're, in a fish full locket to putYour Business Card in you're, probably behind you what you are behind and youneed to be thinking in a more innovative way again like going back tothat tig brush example that just blew me away. It was the coolest thing I'veseen and like I could. Actually, I was talking live with the the guy, and Icould like do the demo with the product that he had right there like it wasamazing. So those are my initial thoughts. I mean that you probably haveway more thoughts and you have seen like how it's evolved today. Yeah, youknow I think you're going to see a lot of companies scale back theirinvestment overall. What I mean by that is, I just think a lot of companies aregoing to do small footprints they're, going to focus more on live demos thanthey should it's going to be more focused on being experiential, smaller,boosting smaller delegations of people. It means less hotels, it means lessmeals out. Tenants probably will come back to close to where it was. I justthink companies are going to get smarter about what they put into thetrade show, because they are becoming wiser in terms of what they get out ofit. I've sent the same sort of investment, or I calculator on tradeshows that I've used in my article that I wrote for Gorilla and Levana. I doneand that's the case for most people who go to it, so I think you're going tolook at I'm looking at smaller footprints. More live demos, smallerdelegations and smaller footprint, mostly, is because a lot of industrialcompanies who sell a lot of different products like Oh, we have thousands ofproducts, potentially well they're, going to focus a T. twenty they'regoing to go well, we have twenty...

...percent of our products drive eightypercent of our business, and why are we trying to focus on showing everythingunder the sun where we can just focus on the core products? And that's reallygoing to at the end of the day, be what most people are interested in andthey'll focus around that, and instead of trying to show every possibleconfiguration of it, they're just going to be a here's one model we can make.We make a bunch of modifications to it, based on what you need, but this isgenerally how it functions. So what are like some of the costs like it o mymind, an I don't want to say any numbers, because I'm sure that I'll getthem wrong, but I was hearing with some of these companies spend just to gettheir equipment there and that's what I'm like. Having that like two way,video is you're saving so much money by not trying to rebuild your shop, and Imean what do these companies spend some of them I'm going to stop you guysthere and use this as our transition into the question I've been waiting toask which is this. You know, Matt, you wrote an article on our side that youjust kind of mentioned in passing a second ago last December, called theeconomics of your trade show are broken. Here's the fix- and I want to hear yourbecause I've heard you go on thirty minute rants about that. But I want tohear your condensed version of what's the counterargument to attending tradeshows in the first place, just just for the sake of rough one, some feathershere, because we're marketing guys and we're supposed to do that right. Let'sget some hot taste, I mean. The counter argument is just like: You can spendyou've, probably already lost money on the trade show by the time you attendit. Over all I mean the economics were like. We spend two hundred thirtythousand dollars between whose face strage material handling labor, justwhatever it is you get up charged by the show, contract or about you, know,power, all the gas all the other stuff that you need to produce fouropportunities, one of which you close and it's worth fifty may be. Let's sayyou sell a hundred thousand dollar piece of equipment. Will you spent twohundred thirty thousand dollars to hundred thousand dollar sale? So that'snot really. You know very the amount of time some of these people. They were tobe like I've been here for ten days like setting up my booth. Well, yeah,that's the thing I mean it's just also just the time commitment that you put.I mean people spend hundreds of hours of their year working on the show, andit's just like is that the smartest seas of your time, probably not whenyou could spend more time, doing, content and working on establishingmore organic presence on something likelinked in or taking that two hundred thirty sand dollars and dividing itbetween content development, pay, distribution, there's just so manyother more efficient things that could reach more people than the Thurch. Imean. Let's in the rosiest of scenarios, you spend two hundred thirty thousanddollars and fifty thousand people attend that show and you scan all fiftyzero people, probably only a small percentage of which your actual Ip,your spending, like four point like four and a quarter on you know backscans, you know email, email address of someone who's never going to buy fromyou. It's like really bad lead. Shet.

You know. If you do look at, let's sayyou scan three hundred and you spent two hundred thirty thousand dollars youspent like seventy, oh, not even that I spent way more than that. Let's see aone o three, those now watching mats doing math on paper right now, yeahspent seven hundred six six as for a lead there, and then you convert. Youknow one of those into a customer and so again, while I you've been twohundred thirty sand hours to get one customer. So that's the economics arebroken because if you think about who you actually turn into a customer whoyou meet at that show it's a very small percentage. Now companies will maskthis by including existing business and up cells and then the the sleed getscan and they do the demo and then it becomes influenced revenue. And thenyou know everyone feels happy at the end of the day. But if you're lookingat it and as new customer acquisition, it's pretty it's pretty inefficient.Overall, I think most companies would be better sort of reallocate that spininto other places. I still think you should attend the show, maybe get a tenby ten booth, maybe focus it on your key customers and take them out for anevent or an experience, but I mean just doing the same play over and over againwhen we're in an era where information is available at any point in time atyour fingertips, just it feels like a lot of time and cost investment for nota lot in return. So Matt, I have heard you use the term to describe sort ofthe brand of marketing that we really believe in, which is, you know,creating amazing content for a specific audience and using paid distribution tobe in front of them consistently, as as almost like having a twenty four seventrade show going on at all times for our audience, our manufacturingexecutive audience. Who probably has no idea what I mean when I say that. Canyou sort of explain what that means in simple terms, when you're able to usesocial media or use the power of pay distribution, because you can targetaudiences by their job title or their industry or their function or how? Manyyears they've experienced that they have more what size of company that youwant to target when you, when you have all these ways to target people andareas where they spend most of their time and you're able to do that overevery single day. Essentially, over the course of a counter a year, you have achance to tell a story and build a narrative around you that you just arenot going to do in a five minute booth visit. You know, like the people who doreally well with those trade shows historically also do really goodmarketing three hundred sixty five days a year, and so, if you're sitting thereand you're banking, your entire lead generation strategy for the year on acouple of trade shows. You are going to have a miserable time getting anysuccess out of your marketing, because they're just competing with too manyother people and there's other companies who are building no, liketrust, definite for their company and their brand and basically shaping thePeople's People's narrative around what their categat. Your category looks likethey're doing that every single day of...

...the year and when you're not you, know,you're, basically losing you're losing market share you're losing no, liketrust, you're, losing mind share to those other companies, and so you knowall all I advocate for is, if you have two hundred and thirty Sandolas tospend on a trade, show you're, probably better off, using it to create contentfor your company and then distributing it really well places where your idealcustomer spends more time. I mean your customer spends hours and hours of timeon Linkedin or instagram or facebook or whatever youtube, as opposed to at atrade show. So that's that's all I would probably advocate for as analternative just way to spend that money, so anything that either of youguys want to add to this conversation that I didn't ask you about. I havekind of an interesting observation and there's no doubt I mean ai and robotics,and it's not just the future. It's the present and a lot of places, and it'sonly going more and more that way, but matt and I W missed the launch. The oneday, and so we had to go to there, was like a Micky des which Joe I know,you're a mickeys guy. There there's a McDonald's inside the place and it wascrazy because mat and I go down and the line was how many people are in thatline met. Like I mean it was the longest McDonalds whin I've seen go,see a person like the person at the counter they're right next to it wasthe key ask where you could just go up and order it, and no one was in linefor that that so bad I were like. Is it broken and it wasn't that's how weorder go food and we got it before like Needun, the lion got their food, butit's just a perfect example like people are still like kind of Leery of some ofthat stuff, I don't know. I just thought it was interesting, but it wasa delicious McDonalds cheeseburger. I got the double cheese BEDR, so it isinteresting, though yeah that anything you want to say to put a rap on this.No, I don't have anything much to add to that. Overall, I know people werehappy to get back in to a trade show function, but I don't think it's goingto just roar back to what it was before. I think companies have acceleratedadopting digital in a way that they haven't before and I think are going tolook at the cost investment of this compared to other things they couldspend on and think that it's more efficient to do other things with thatand that I would think, that's probably probably the right thing to do. Yeah, Ithink of anything. It's I feel like we're just going to see people besmarter, you know one way or another. Some complies will keep doing whatthey've been doing, but I think the the A lot of companies will look reallyhard at this and say: First, should we be doing this in the first place and ifso, how can we do it more efficiently? How can we get more more out of this,so hopefully this spurt some ideas for people in that Camp Right? Well, Iappreciate you guys doing this, we'll let you get back to work, but I want tofirst give you both a chance to you know to let her audience know how theycan get in touch with each of you yeah. You can find me on Linkedin Matthew,Shinola, Matthew, J Canola, also, my own podcast industrial marketing show,which I do with Mj Peters just about every week. You could find that onapple and spotify and we turn out new...

...episodes every week, so hopefully we'llgive it a listen, yeah linked in John J in Breno, F, R and K O I'm also onInstagram company INSTAGRAM. I do a little managing of that. So, if I'm noton one of those things, I'm probably running around Forest Park, so that'spretty much where I am these days. Getting Ready for that New YorkMarathon, with a stress rat stress, fracture, going on right now correctyeah, so hopefully that that concealed we're going to try it out this week andsee how fields by the time this is live will know whether how you pulled it offwith I'm sure you will. Okay, guys well, once again, I appreciate it thanks forcoming back on we'll have both of you back on again at some point. You're,both becoming veterans of this show and met your no first Rodeo for you, eitherrun in your own show, go check out the industrial market show with Matt and MJ Peters and, as for the rest of you hope to catch. You on the next episodeof the Manufacturing Executive. You've been listening to themanufacturing executive podcast to ensure that you never missed an episodesubscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player. If you'd like to learnmore about industrial marketing and sales strategy, you'll find an everexpanding collection of articles, videos guides and tools, specificallyfor B, to be manufacturers at grill. Seventy sixscore. Thank you so much forlistening until next time, e.

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