The Manufacturing Executive
The Manufacturing Executive

Episode · 10 months ago

Your Guide to Trade Show Booth Success w/ Jon Franko & Matthew Sciannella


There are a couple of super easy ways to totally flop at a trade show:

Not having a live demo. Not having enough personnel. Not prioritizing relationships. Not being selective with products. Not having strategic marketing on the other 363 days of the year. Not understanding the economics of the entire endeavor.

Okay... more than just a couple.

In this episode, I interview Gorilla76’s Matthew Sciannella, Thinker & Strategy Director, and Jon Franko, Thinker & Founder, about all things trade shows.

In this episode, we discuss:

- The future of trade shows in light of the recent past

- What makes a successful booth

- Why marketers should help their customers network with each other

- Some trade show math about whether it’s worth it

- Smaller footprints, bigger impact    

Check out these resources we mentioned:

- Matthew’s article, “The economics of your trade show are broken. Here’s the fix.

- The Industrial Market News Show    

Subscribe to The Manufacturing Executive on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or our website.

Listening on a desktop & can’t see the links? Just search for The Manufacturing Executive in your favorite podcast player.

If you're sitting there and you're banking your entire lead generation strategy for the year on a couple of trade shows, you are going to having miserable time getting any success out of your marketing. Welcome to the manufacturing executive podcast, where we explore the strategies and experiences that are driving midsize manufacturers forward. Here you'll discover new insights from passionate manufacturing leaders who have compelling stories to share about their successes and struggles, and you'll learn from B tob sales and marketing experts about how to apply actionable business development strategies inside your business. Let's get into the show. Welcome to another episode of the Manufacturing Executive podcast. I'm Joe Sullivan, your host and a cofounder of the Industrial Marketing Agency guerrilla seventy six. If there's one thing that all manufacturers seem to have in common, it's this. They love their trade shows. For some it's legitimately a top business driver from one year to the next, for others they like to pretend it is, and some just do it because isn't. Going to trade shows just what manufacturers do, regardless of what camp you fall into. The last year and a half has rocked the trade show landscape and it's made most organizations think really hard about how their trade show strategy needs to evolve for rush off fabtack two thousand and twenty one. My two guests today will talk about what they observed, from what's changed since pre pandemic times to some unique ideas and uses of space that they witnessed, to where they see missed opportunities for manufacturers at trade shows and how they envision trade shows evolving in the years ahead. My hope is that this conversation will spark some ideas for you, regardless of what your trade show strategy looks like headed into two thousand and twenty two. So let's get into it. John Franco, my business partner of fifteen plus years now, is thinker and founder of girls seventy six. John was named to the two thousand and ten Saint Louis business journals thirty to thirty class and was named one of the St Louis's top young entrepreneurs by small business monthly. He's a graduate of the Focus St Louis Emerging Leaders Program and, as a member of the forty two class of Leadership St Louis John is a passionate Missouri Tiger and loves to spend time in the outdoors, hunting, fishing, biking and running. In July of two thousand and nineteen, he ran across the state of Ohio a hundred seventy four miles and six days to raise money and awareness for MS run the US. Today he's in an ambassador for the organization. John is served as a board member for launch St Louis, cofounder, and the Friends of Clifton Park Cofounder and brightside St Louis. He volunteers of big brothers big sisters eastern Missouri, serving as a big brother. In August of two thousand and twenty he was nominated and selected for the Heroes Heart Award. John currently sits on the board of trustees and is the vice chairman for the Gateway Arch Chapter of the National Multiple Sclerosis Society. He's active with bike, Ms Governance and community engagement committees. In early two thousand and twenty he was awarded...

...the Community Awareness Award for the chapter for his fundraising and mentoring efforts. John is a graduate of the University of Missouri School of Journalism. Matthew Shanella is a marketing professional of nine plus years. He started his career doing technical and proposal writing for a and e companies before transitioning to design, build construction. There he was introduced to marketing, where he started with content marketing and website development. In Two thousand and sixteen, Matt moved to welding equipment maker Abocor Benzel, where he was marketing manager before moving to marketing director of the United States and Canada at Benzel. Met evolved the Marketing Department from a printed a trade show approach to an inbound content and demand generation model, expanding his program to other areas, including Mexico, Brazil, Germany and the United Kingdom, and helping to get regional programs off the ground. Matthew moved to the Financial Tech Startup Company gravy to be their content director before returning to the industrial space as strategy director here at Gorilla Seventy six, just over a year ago, and that role Matt helps lead overall strategic direction for both gorilla and our clients. Matt and John, welcome to the show. I was going on and see it. Thanks for having us. That was a really long intro. That was really that was very long for both of you, but usually would be fine for one. I had two of you and I probably should have made you trim them, but you know, time is of the essence here and I like the ego boosts, so it was nice all right. So you guys have both do you guys both went to Fab deck blast month? Do you you represent a gorilla there? Matt, you have been there a handful of times over the years, I know, and I wanted to use this podcast episodes of jumping off point for talking about where do we think trade shows are headed in the future, so I wanted to kick this off you. You both mentioned a few creative ideas that you saw at Fab Tech, so let's go there first. You'd like share what stood out to you in hopes of maybe inspiring some out of the box thinking for our listeners? Yeah, I'll just throw this to this is my first time going to this trade show. I Know Matt has been numerous times and to a lot of other industry trade shows, but it's kind of disgusted if we're going to be talking about trade shows a lot and kind of need to put our money where our mouths and go see them ourselves and walk. So I didn't really know what to expect, but there were two that really jumped out to me and I'm thinking about it. There's that that path robotics booth. It just was exceptionally well done. It was very experiential. You kind of were invited into their space and I thought that was interesting. And then other one that just blew me away. I'll like fuld the story million times, but I just was walking by a TV and I hear a guy on a TB say hey, you and the blue girl of seventy six shirt, and I like stop, like I thought it was just a recording and it wasn't. It was actually somebody live from company headquarters and allst throw you, inviting me in to do a product demo via, you know, the same technology we're using right now. So that was the one that just made me realize like holy cow, this is really interesting in a really cool way to sell and a cool way for them to not have to bring all this equipment and save on a ton...

...of cost but still have a really effective display there. So those are the two that jumped out to me. And that company was called ends attack. Their product is called diig brush and these guys are actually going to be on the show coming up here shortly, so I was curious to hear about you. They've really embraced live streaming and they found out how to apply it in the trade just setting, which I think was great. So how about you add anything in particular stood out to you? Well, the size of the floor stood out to me a lot. Someone is exhibited at that show four times. I was at that time attending. You know, you used to seeing wall to wall and all directions the auxiliary areas well. Of all be to, I believe, is the hall that we were in. It just being like completely stopped and like they obviously bless people out the show less exhibitors. There were some very sizeable people not exhibiting and so it got cordoned off and so the footprint was a lot smaller and that was that was very off putting the look at, especially if you've done the shows often, as I have, and you know as soon as you walk in you're going to see the biggest walding company in the world first and then the one who probably has the biggest social media presence and the most influencer marketing in the back, and they very distinct colors and you know they're going to run huge events all show. They were not there, and so that was to me really surprising. Those who stood out at the show, I thought, were companies who tried to embrace being different. I also thought mostly companies who have been doing a good job marketing outside of trade shows were that did really well for themselves, and so I just think there's very obvious momentum to be had from doing marketing good during the sixty five days a year and then watching that still over and how many people were visiting your booth. And so you path robotics sit out and Kawasaki was another one to sit out. They had a nice rebrand that they had done and I thought it was very noticeable. Yeah, I agreed with that. You know, take brush stood out as well for me. What about that? All the you know, they're the companies that were doing like software as a service. You couldn't get it, you couldn't get close to their boot. Yeah, I mean they were the the the SASS companies that had some focus on manufacturing. Were telling me how they were extremely busy, zomatry being one, machine metrics being another. Paperless parts seemed fairly busy too. So there were just they're definitely like the ones they those were smaller footprints, smaller delegations, a lot less investment up front. You know when you do when you're not selling hard goods, you don't need the space necessarily to sit there and and place your products. But they all told me they had great results throughout the show. They thought the quality was really high. The theory was that people who did come, we're very serious about coming. That's certainly a hypothesis that I think has merit, but overall that it was it was less people than past years for Shila Chicago, and the exhibit or list was definitely a lot sord that said, yeah, those were the companies that I thought stood out. It was cool like our friends over Regatku and we went by their booth like it was an opportunity to like actually, you...

...know, we've been helping them with, you know, their marketing and it was helpful to actually see their instruments and be able to touch them and hold them and ask a lot of questions. I think that was like. If I think about as a buyer, I think anyone where you could test something or see it or whether it's software or whether it's some sort of device to get a do point reading or whatever. I think it's always those people really stuck out to me. So, Matt, you and I were recently talking about how companies that exhibit at these big trade shows tend to go in with very little strategy. I know you've been inside of manufaction companies, whereas John and Eric our agency guys, maybe you've seen this from both sides. But what, like, let's talk a little bit. John Jump in here too, but like, what do you guys think that manufactures need to be doing ahead of time, during the show and also after the show to actually get the most out of this investment? Is opposed to just showing up and hoping that people then show up at your booth? I think part of it depends on what you've invested in marketing personnelies already. For a lot of marketing professionals who do these trade shows, just getting the booths stood up and getting your delegation in without there being a hitch is a full time job kind of all on its own, sort of going in, going into Fab Tech, and so we talked about what. Why is in there a lot of strategy around it? It's because the effort of planning, like your products in your dredge and your material handling and your labor and all the other aspects that go into making a trade show. If you're not doing a year around, if it's like the way if you do it once or twice a year, you know it's huge lift on your time and so it's why it's not a ton of strategy that goes into it from for a lot of companies that I see. So the question about how companies can do more, a lot of that has to do with collaborating more with your with your sales team, or getting a look into your crm and having a sense of WHO's going to be exhibiting or, sorry, who's going to be attending there who maybe you have in an early stage pipeline opportunity. I think another thing that I noticed with people doing trade shows in general in the industrial side is like there's those who do real demos and there's those who do stimulated demos, and you're really only going to get interest in your booth if if you're doing a real demo, like you're paying for gas, you're paying for thirty amp outlets your you know, really gonna make things light up and spark and you're going to be welding or cutting or forming metal or whatever it is you're doing at that show, and if you be able to actually do a live demo on your booth, well that's a good time to bring early stage opportunity primary contacts who maybe having done a lot demo of your product before. Maybe your sales guy has something scheduled with them, and to give them a chance to demo the product they're on the floor before having to go drive out to them and do it or leave it or leave a product there or have them fly out to you if your product... so big that you can't even do it that way and check the product out. So I think you know, using the trade show to do live demos on your early stage pipeline opportunities is really good. Is a pretty sound way to go. It just involves doing a lot of collaborating with your sales team and having them call on people and knowing who's going to be there and then scheduling time to make sure that whatever it is y'all want a demo is available and that other people don't have a demo schedule at the same time and so there's like no VARC technologies, who's one of the is is one company who does that really well. And so if babtack when things they do, because they their product takes so long to put together and it's so such capacs three hundred thousand dollars or something like that each. And so you know, people go to the show to demo the product. They bring their pipe samples in and they fit it up and and they weld in in front of them and show them all the data acquisition that it does and the sort of all the camera angles at it's able to grab and their recordings and things like that. And it's really smarter than to do that. And then they have other times where it's kind of open schedule and to be able can just kind of walk up and just do like a walk by Demo. But you know, they know that the show for them is getting their pipeline opportunities in to get alive demo, because it's hard to do that otherwise. So companies you do that, I think, tend to will tend to get more out of the show. But even still, I mean you're looking at you looking at things that are already in pipe on. They're trying to help close. So I think it tends to be how you look at the investment in the first place. I was going to also comment on I was in terms of the post show follow up. I've just been I don't say surprise. It's kind of what I expected. But I've seen a lot of bad marketing post show, a lot of like hey, somehow of somebody got my business card. I'm clearly not in the target audience here, but somehow I just got thrown into like the churn and burn email like list, and you know, there's it's all the stuff we talked about not doing. It's Hey, look how great we are, instead of sending me any sort of content that could be even if I was a buyer, being being relevant, it's hey, here's a there's a listing of our latest catalog or whatever. It's just you see that stuff and you're like, man, that you could you could be doing so much more. Yeah, I think one thing as an attendee that you noticed when you go to the show is how much everyone markets do the same after the show, right, and so thinking about what you want to do in terms of execution is like I think he's bearing in mind that you are one of fifty, sixty, seventy, eighty companies that WHO's badge got scanned, right, like this person who's badge you just scan. Well, they just got scamed by eighty other companies as well. So they're probably going to get anywhere between fifty and seventy five, because some of them will just not bother do any follow up whatsoever. Outreach is afterwards. It's going to be from sales people one to one. It's going to be automatic email nurtures, it's going to be people getting into your newsletter. It's going to be your Webinar that you're running next month. Right. So what are you doing to stand out post show with anything different so that you're not the same industrial company doing...

...the same homogeneists follow up that everyone else is doing? That isn't that is and and nobody is going to act on aside from the one person who probably would have bought from you in the first place because their need was so great and they saw your I mean they probably already contacted you with that at that point. Right. They're like, I saw this company, I saw this product of exactly what I was looking for. You know, they didn't need to follow up. They knew they're like, I gotta I got a call this company immediately. So just think about ways you could stand out a little bit more on those follow up executions, doing some personalized gift giving something. I think this is an area where direct mail can actually help you. Just anything to stick out in that regard. Or, you know, if you did a good job with with your badge scanning and you note taking and you found someone cool, if you have a good content program like if you have your own newsletter or if you have your own webinar series or if you have your own podcast, inviting one of those to belong to just be a guest on it and collaborate with them instead of trying to just nakedly sell to them, which I think is what most people go out and do. And so I think that's where a lot of the follow up tends to fall flat, is because it's all really the same and no one's taking a more patient approach with and understanding that it's relationships that drive you forward at this point and you know, really, once you turn the relationship into turn the relationship making into something more transactional after the show, you kind of miss your chance to develop that over time. Yeah, that's good. Couple quick builds on what you guys said there. You know, John, I think your point about like all the noise after a trade show, don't be a part of it. Think about how how you feel when you get solicited like that in ways you don't want. So consider that when you think about how to follow up, first of all. And then, mad I think one point you made early on there was that I really liked was going in with some by being intentional. I'm think ahead of time about you know who's in your pipeline who might be at this show and you know invite them to your booth. has set up a demo ahead of time at a specific time? Or, Matt, when we were talking the other day in preparation for this conversation, you see, you said, well, what about parallel events? Like if you've got ten really great prospects so you know are going to be there and they're already in your funnel, how about making us you know, setting up a side trip to get John You'd like this one to go duck hunting or something right like her or whatever. Even rent out the bar next door. I think, Matt, you mentioned that one. Like could you host a private event and have it planned out ahead of time and invite people who may not even be going to the show, but it might make them come to the show. There's gonna be so many people in one place at the same time and think it's just a missed opportunity to not be able to engage people in some more meaningful way. So and like I saw it, you know, I would camera what nights through there there were think it was when the cardinals were on that crazy run they were on. So it's trying to catch baseball games at night and you'd sit and like at the hotel bar and like that. There was business being done. They're like, you know what I mean,... they the people had hung out all day, or maybe not head hung out all day, but they had. They connected at the trade show. Then they were meeting up for drinks, they were going to dinner after they were doing these like break out events. So almost and I mean it's very apparent that that's still were a lot of businesses being done. It's relationships, right. Yeah, I think you know, with a lot of companies they want to try to sypon that off and so they're like, well, let me take my one big account to dinner. Let me take my major distributor out to dinner where. I think what's cool that you could do is find, you know, if you know, you sell the like the top a let a carmaker and they use your laser product, and then you have like the top agricultural machinery maker and you have a really good relationship with their waling engineer and you have a really good relationship with this guy who works at hall a burden or something like that. You know, if you have these relationships with these people and you have a chance to kind of bring them together for like a group meal, these people don't compete with each other really for anything, but if you have a chance to be the lynch pin or the Centrifugal Force around what makes those relationships happen, you get to be the company that helps produce the the network effect for others in the space trying to either get better or want or know best practices or looking to borrow techniques from other industries. And I think we're a lot of companies. They want to try to keep these accounts apart from each other, when really it's interesting is to bring them together and try to, you know, see what the conversations are like and you get to be the person who helped put that together and you get to sort of be a fly on the wall just observe it. So I think there's power and helping your customers forge relationships within their network and you putting those situations in place and you, as a marketer, have a chance to make those things happen, especially if you're able to put a really cool small event on for like, you know, six, seven, eight, nine, ten of your best customers. You know, another thing that I think is an opportunity. I saw this going on last week. It's we're recording this on October eighteenth here in two thousand and twenty one, and last week in Memphis there was the autonomous mobile robots and logistics conference going on in Memphis and I kind of a lot of people that following them connected to on Linkedin a few, namely Chris Lukey, Aaron Prayther Jake Hall. The three of them were they were and I think Chris and Jake I don't know if they sub leased booths space from somebody or what they did, but they had their podcasts set up and Chris Lukey runs manufacturing happy. I was actually like recording podcast live right there at the show, which I think is just so smart, and whether it's, you know, you as a manufacturer recording a podcast, which maybe you know, not your world yet should be. We can talk about that. But creating content of some sort that can also double as market research. I watched the guys at industrial sage do this a couple of years ago. To them for getting off hand which show it was, but they brought their cameras, their heavy equipment, like they're, you know,...

...their video equipment, and they walked around and they interviewed at like, you know, fifty or a hundred people that are right in their target audience on camera and they created content all out of out of that. So I think that's an opportunity there for any manufacturers who have a strong marketing arm. Could you be live at a show interviewing your prospects, turning that into content that can serve you can serve those prospects, who help you build relationships with those people and double as market research, frankly. So kind of just throwing that one out into the mix as well. So all of this stuff considered, John Matt where do you guys think trade shows are going how do you think, if you look out into the future, three to five years from now, what do you think will be different now versus what maybe has happened in the last three to five years? You know I'm at. You'RE gonna have a lot more thoughts on this than I am at. Again, I have you know, as I said earlier, I don't have a ton of experience or I don't have a lot of things to compare this to him in terms of how it has evolved already. But I think, you know, the the thing I kept hearing was smaller crowd, but the people who are here we're having really good conversations with, because if you're going to travel during a pandemic and during, you know, whenever there's health stuff going on like, you have to be pretty serious about it. I also think like the evolution of the booth is like if you're running the same mole, like, as man always says, running the same playbook, where you've got, you know your you've got, I don't know, stress balls and Tshirts, and you know that's how you're in a fishful bucket to put Your Business Card in. You're probably behind your what you are behind and you need to be thinking in a more innovative way. Again, like going back to that TIG brush example. That just blew me away. It's the coolest thing I've seen and like I could actually I was talking live with the guy and I could like do the demo with the product that he had right there, like it was amazing. So those are my initial thoughts. I mean, Matt, you probably have way more thoughts and you you have seen like how it's evolved today. Yeah, you know, I think you're going to see a lot of companies scale back their investment overall, and what I mean by that is I just think a lot of companies going to do smaller footprints. They're going to focus more on live demos, and they should. It's going to be more focused on being experiential, smaller boosts, being smaller delegations of people. It means less hotels, it means less meals out. tendance probably will come back to close to where it was. I just think companies are going to get smarter about what they put into the trade show because they are becoming wiser in terms of what they get out of it. I've sent the same sort of investment or a high calculator on trade shows that I've used in my article that I wrote for Grilla and Webinar I've done, and death's the case for most people who go to it. So I think you're going to look at I'm looking at smaller footprints, more live demos, smaller delegations and smaller footprint. Mostly is because a lot of industrial companies who sell a lot of different products like, Oh, we have thousands of products potentially. Well, they're going to focus at twenty. They're going to go, well, we have twenty percent...

...of our products drive eighty percent of our business, and why are we trying to focus on showing everything under the sun when we can just focus on the core products? And that's really going to, at the end of the day, be what most people are interested in and they'll focus around that and instead of trying to show every possible configuration of it, they're just going to build. Here's one model week make. We make a bunch of modifications to it based on what you need, but this is generally how it functions. So we were like some of the costs it were my mind and I don't want to say any numbers because I'm sure that I'll get them wrong, but I was hearing what some of these companies spin just to get their equipment there, and that's where I'm like having that like two way video. Is You're saving so much money by not trying to rebuild your shoppings. I mean, what do these companies spend? Some of them? I'm going to stop you guys there and use this as our transition into the question I've been waiting to ask, which is this. You know, Matt, you wrote an article on our site that you just kind of mentioned in passing a second ago, last December, called the economics of your trade show are broken. Here's the fix, and I want to hear your because I've heard you go on thirty minute rants about that. But I want to hear your condensed version of what's the counter argument to attending trade shows in the first place, just just for the sake of roughlin some feathers here, because we're marketing guys and we're supposed to do that right. Let's get some hot takes. I mean the counter argument is just like you can spend you you've probably already lost money on the trade show by the time you attend it. Overall, I mean the economics were like we spend two hundred thirtyzero between whose face, drage, material, handling, labor, just whatever it is you get up charged by the show contract or about, you know, power, all the gas, all the other stuff that you need to produce for opportunities, one of which you close and it's worth fifty. Maybe. Let's say you sell a hundred thousand dollar piece of equipment, while you spent two hundred Thirtyeros the god of thousand dollar sale. So that's not really, you know, very the amount of times some of these people they would be like, I've been here for ten days, like setting up my booth. Well, yeah, that's the thing. I mean. It's just also just the time commitment that you put I mean people spend hundreds of hours of their year working on the show and it's just like is that the smartest use of you time? Probably not, when you could spend more time doing content and working on establishing more organic presidents, on something like Linkedin, or taking that two hundred thirty thousand dollars and defining it between content development and paid distribution. There's just so many other more efficient things that can reach more people than than the titch. I mean, lets in the rosiest of scenarios. You spend two hundred thirtyzero and Fiftyzero people attend that show and you scan all fiftyzero people, probably only a small percentage of which are your actual ICP. is spending like four point, like for in a quarter on you know bad scans email, email address of someone who's never going to buy from you. It's like really bad lead Chet. You know, if you you look at let's say you scant three hundred and you spent two hundred...

Thirtyzero, you've spent like seventy, not even that. I spent way more than that. Let's see one, two, three those now watching Matt's doing math on paper right now. Yeah, spend seven hundred sixty six dollars for a lead there, and then you convert, you know, one of those into a customer. And so again, while I've been two hundred Thirtyzeros to get one customer. So that's the economics are broken because if you think about who you actually turn into a customer, who you meet it that show, it's a very small percentage. Now companies will mask this by including existing business and up cells and then the the lead, get scan and they do the demo and then it becomes influenced revenue and then, you know, everyone feels happy at the end of the day. But if you're looking at it and as new customer acquisition, it's pretty it's pretty inefficient overall. I think most companies will be better served rellocating that spend in other places. I still think you should attend the show, maybe get a ten by ten booth, maybe focus it on your key customers and take them out for an event or an experience. But I mean just doing the same play over and over again when we're in an era where information is available at any point in time at your fingertips, just it feels like a lot of time and cost investment for not a lot in return. So, Matt, I have heard you use the term to describe sort of the brand of marketing that we really believe in, which is, you know, creating amazing content for a specific audience and using paid distribution to be in front of them consistently, as almost like having a seven trade show going on at all times for our audience. You are manufacturing executive audience who probably has no idea what I mean when I say that. Can you sort of explain what that means? In simple terms, when you're able to use social media or use the power of a distribution because you can target audiences by their job title or their industry or their function or how many years they've experience that they have more what size of company that you want to target. When you when you have all these ways to target people and areas where they spend most of their time, and you're able to do that over every single day, essentially over the course of a calendar year, you have a chance to tell a story and build a narrative around you that you just are not going to do in a five minute booth visit. You know, like the people who do really well at those trade shows historically also do really good marketing three hundred sixty five days a year. And so if you're sitting there and you're banking your entire lead generation strategy for the year on a couple of trade shows, you are going to having miserable time getting any success out of your marketing because they're just competing with too many other people and there's other companies who are building no like trust affinity for their company and their brand and basically shaping the People's People's narrative around what their category, what your category looks like. They're doing that every single day of the year and when you're not,... know you're basically losing you're losing market share, you're losing no like trust, you're losing mind share to those those other companies. And so, you know, all I'm all I advocate for is if you have two hundred thirtyzero dollars to spend on a trade show, you're probably better off using it to create content for your company and then distributing it really well places where your ideal customer spends more time, I mean your customer spends hours and hours of time on Linkedin or instagram or facebook or wherever youtube, as opposed to at a trade show. So that's that's all I would probably advocate for as an alternative, just way to spend that money. So anything that either of you guys want to add to this conversation that didn't asked you about? I have kind of an interesting observation, and there's no doubt I mean ai and robotics and it's not just the future, it's the present and a lot of places and it's only going more and more that way. But Mad and I missed the launch the one day, and so we had to go to there was like a Mickey d's, which, Joe, I know you're a Mickey D's Guy. There there's a McDonald's inside the place and it was crazy because Matt and I go down in the line. Was How many people are in that line? Mat like, I mean it was the longest McDonald's Line I've seen to go see a person like the person at the counter there, right next to it was the kiosk where you could just go up and order it, and no one was in line for that. And so mad I were like is it broken? And it wasn't. That's how we ordered our food. We got it before like anybody in the lion got their food. But it's just a perfect example like people are still like kind of leary if some of that stuff. I don't know it. I just thought it was interesting, but it wasn't delicious. McDonald's cheese very or I get the double cheefer remaining. So it is interesting though. Yeah, that anything you want to say to put a wrap on this? No, I I don't have anything much to add to that. Overall, I know people were happy to get back into a trade show function, but I don't think it's going to just roar back to what it was before. I think companies have accelerated adopting digital in a way that they haven't before and I think we're are going to look at the cost and investment of this compared to other things they could spend on and think that it's more efficient to do other things with that, and I would think that's probably probably the right thing to do. Yeah, I think if anything, it's I feel like we're just going to see people be smarter. You know, one way or another, some companies will keep doing what they've been doing, but I think this the a lot of companies will look really hard at this and say, first, should we be doing this in the first place and, if so, how can we do it more efficiently? How can we get more more out of this? So hopefully the spurt some ideas for people in that camp. Great. Well, I appreciate you guys doing this. Will let you get back to work, but I want to first give you both a chance to, you know, to let her audience know how they can get in touch with each of you. Yeah, you can find me on Linkedin. Matthew Chanela, Matthew J Schonella. Also have my own podcast, the industrial marketing show, which I do with Mj Peters just about every week. You can find that on apple and spotify and we...

...turn out new episodes every week. So hopefully we'll give it a listen. Yeah, winked in John, John Franco, far and KO. I'm also on Instagram, company INSTAGRAM. I do a little managing of that. So if I'm not on one of those things, I'm probably running around Forest Park. So that's pretty much where I am. Is this getting ready for that New York marathon with a stress rat stress fracturely going on right now? Correct? Yeah, so hopefully that that gets healed. We're going to try it out this week and say out fields. By the time this is live will know whether how you pulled it off with some'm sure you will. Okay, guys. Well, once again, I appreciate it. Thanks for coming back on. We'll have both of you back on again at some point. You're both becoming veterans of this show and Matt, you're no first Rodeo for you either, running your own show. Go check out the industrial marketing show with Matt and I'M J Peters. And as for the rest of you, hope to catch you on the next episode of the Manufacturing Executive. You've been listening to the manufacturing executive podcast. To ensure that you never miss an episode. Subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player. If you'd like to learn more about industrial marketing and sales strategy, you'll find an ever expanding collection of articles, videos, guides and tools specifically for BTB manufacturers at Gorilla Seventy sixcom learn thank you so much for listening. Until next time,.

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