The Manufacturing Executive
The Manufacturing Executive

Episode · 2 months ago

Your Guide to Trade Show Booth Success w/ Jon Franko & Matthew Sciannella


There are a couple of super easy ways to totally flop at a trade show:

Not having a live demo. Not having enough personnel. Not prioritizing relationships. Not being selective with products. Not having strategic marketing on the other 363 days of the year. Not understanding the economics of the entire endeavor.

Okay... more than just a couple.

In this episode, I interview Gorilla76’s Matthew Sciannella, Thinker & Strategy Director, and Jon Franko, Thinker & Founder, about all things trade shows.

In this episode, we discuss:

- The future of trade shows in light of the recent past

- What makes a successful booth

- Why marketers should help their customers network with each other

- Some trade show math about whether it’s worth it

- Smaller footprints, bigger impact    

Check out these resources we mentioned:

- Matthew’s article, “The economics of your trade show are broken. Here’s the fix.

- The Industrial Market News Show    

Subscribe to The Manufacturing Executive on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or our website.

Listening on a desktop & can’t see the links? Just search for The Manufacturing Executive in your favorite podcast player.

If you're sitting there and you're bankingyour entire lead generation strategy for the year on a couple of trade shows,you are going to having miserable time getting any success out of your marketing.Welcome to the manufacturing executive podcast, where we explore the strategies and experiences thatare driving midsize manufacturers forward. Here you'll discover new insights from passionate manufacturing leaderswho have compelling stories to share about their successes and struggles, and you'll learnfrom B tob sales and marketing experts about how to apply actionable business development strategiesinside your business. Let's get into the show. Welcome to another episode ofthe Manufacturing Executive podcast. I'm Joe Sullivan, your host and a cofounder of theIndustrial Marketing Agency guerrilla seventy six. If there's one thing that all manufacturersseem to have in common, it's this. They love their trade shows. Forsome it's legitimately a top business driver from one year to the next,for others they like to pretend it is, and some just do it because isn't. Going to trade shows just what manufacturers do, regardless of what campyou fall into. The last year and a half has rocked the trade showlandscape and it's made most organizations think really hard about how their trade show strategyneeds to evolve for rush off fabtack two thousand and twenty one. My twoguests today will talk about what they observed, from what's changed since pre pandemic timesto some unique ideas and uses of space that they witnessed, to wherethey see missed opportunities for manufacturers at trade shows and how they envision trade showsevolving in the years ahead. My hope is that this conversation will spark someideas for you, regardless of what your trade show strategy looks like headed intotwo thousand and twenty two. So let's get into it. John Franco,my business partner of fifteen plus years now, is thinker and founder of girls seventysix. John was named to the two thousand and ten Saint Louis businessjournals thirty to thirty class and was named one of the St Louis's top youngentrepreneurs by small business monthly. He's a graduate of the Focus St Louis EmergingLeaders Program and, as a member of the forty two class of Leadership StLouis John is a passionate Missouri Tiger and loves to spend time in the outdoors, hunting, fishing, biking and running. In July of two thousand and nineteen, he ran across the state of Ohio a hundred seventy four miles andsix days to raise money and awareness for MS run the US. Today he'sin an ambassador for the organization. John is served as a board member forlaunch St Louis, cofounder, and the Friends of Clifton Park Cofounder and brightsideSt Louis. He volunteers of big brothers big sisters eastern Missouri, serving asa big brother. In August of two thousand and twenty he was nominated andselected for the Heroes Heart Award. John currently sits on the board of trusteesand is the vice chairman for the Gateway Arch Chapter of the National Multiple SclerosisSociety. He's active with bike, Ms Governance and community engagement committees. Inearly two thousand and twenty he was awarded...

...the Community Awareness Award for the chapterfor his fundraising and mentoring efforts. John is a graduate of the University ofMissouri School of Journalism. Matthew Shanella is a marketing professional of nine plus years. He started his career doing technical and proposal writing for a and e companiesbefore transitioning to design, build construction. There he was introduced to marketing,where he started with content marketing and website development. In Two thousand and sixteen, Matt moved to welding equipment maker Abocor Benzel, where he was marketing managerbefore moving to marketing director of the United States and Canada at Benzel. Metevolved the Marketing Department from a printed a trade show approach to an inbound contentand demand generation model, expanding his program to other areas, including Mexico,Brazil, Germany and the United Kingdom, and helping to get regional programs offthe ground. Matthew moved to the Financial Tech Startup Company gravy to be theircontent director before returning to the industrial space as strategy director here at Gorilla Seventysix, just over a year ago, and that role Matt helps lead overallstrategic direction for both gorilla and our clients. Matt and John, welcome to theshow. I was going on and see it. Thanks for having us. That was a really long intro. That was really that was very longfor both of you, but usually would be fine for one. I hadtwo of you and I probably should have made you trim them, but youknow, time is of the essence here and I like the ego boosts,so it was nice all right. So you guys have both do you guysboth went to Fab deck blast month? Do you you represent a gorilla there? Matt, you have been there a handful of times over the years,I know, and I wanted to use this podcast episodes of jumping off pointfor talking about where do we think trade shows are headed in the future,so I wanted to kick this off you. You both mentioned a few creative ideasthat you saw at Fab Tech, so let's go there first. You'dlike share what stood out to you in hopes of maybe inspiring some out ofthe box thinking for our listeners? Yeah, I'll just throw this to this ismy first time going to this trade show. I Know Matt has beennumerous times and to a lot of other industry trade shows, but it's kindof disgusted if we're going to be talking about trade shows a lot and kindof need to put our money where our mouths and go see them ourselves andwalk. So I didn't really know what to expect, but there were twothat really jumped out to me and I'm thinking about it. There's that thatpath robotics booth. It just was exceptionally well done. It was very experiential. You kind of were invited into their space and I thought that was interesting. And then other one that just blew me away. I'll like fuld thestory million times, but I just was walking by a TV and I heara guy on a TB say hey, you and the blue girl of seventysix shirt, and I like stop, like I thought it was just arecording and it wasn't. It was actually somebody live from company headquarters and allstthrow you, inviting me in to do a product demo via, you know, the same technology we're using right now. So that was the one that justmade me realize like holy cow, this is really interesting in a reallycool way to sell and a cool way for them to not have to bringall this equipment and save on a ton...

...of cost but still have a reallyeffective display there. So those are the two that jumped out to me.And that company was called ends attack. Their product is called diig brush andthese guys are actually going to be on the show coming up here shortly,so I was curious to hear about you. They've really embraced live streaming and theyfound out how to apply it in the trade just setting, which Ithink was great. So how about you add anything in particular stood out toyou? Well, the size of the floor stood out to me a lot. Someone is exhibited at that show four times. I was at that timeattending. You know, you used to seeing wall to wall and all directionsthe auxiliary areas well. Of all be to, I believe, is thehall that we were in. It just being like completely stopped and like theyobviously bless people out the show less exhibitors. There were some very sizeable people notexhibiting and so it got cordoned off and so the footprint was a lotsmaller and that was that was very off putting the look at, especially ifyou've done the shows often, as I have, and you know as soonas you walk in you're going to see the biggest walding company in the worldfirst and then the one who probably has the biggest social media presence and themost influencer marketing in the back, and they very distinct colors and you knowthey're going to run huge events all show. They were not there, and sothat was to me really surprising. Those who stood out at the show, I thought, were companies who tried to embrace being different. I alsothought mostly companies who have been doing a good job marketing outside of trade showswere that did really well for themselves, and so I just think there's veryobvious momentum to be had from doing marketing good during the sixty five days ayear and then watching that still over and how many people were visiting your booth. And so you path robotics sit out and Kawasaki was another one to sitout. They had a nice rebrand that they had done and I thought itwas very noticeable. Yeah, I agreed with that. You know, takebrush stood out as well for me. What about that? All the youknow, they're the companies that were doing like software as a service. Youcouldn't get it, you couldn't get close to their boot. Yeah, Imean they were the the the SASS companies that had some focus on manufacturing.Were telling me how they were extremely busy, zomatry being one, machine metrics beinganother. Paperless parts seemed fairly busy too. So there were just they'redefinitely like the ones they those were smaller footprints, smaller delegations, a lotless investment up front. You know when you do when you're not selling hardgoods, you don't need the space necessarily to sit there and and place yourproducts. But they all told me they had great results throughout the show.They thought the quality was really high. The theory was that people who didcome, we're very serious about coming. That's certainly a hypothesis that I thinkhas merit, but overall that it was it was less people than past yearsfor Shila Chicago, and the exhibit or list was definitely a lot sord thatsaid, yeah, those were the companies that I thought stood out. Itwas cool like our friends over Regatku and we went by their booth like itwas an opportunity to like actually, you...

...know, we've been helping them with, you know, their marketing and it was helpful to actually see their instrumentsand be able to touch them and hold them and ask a lot of questions. I think that was like. If I think about as a buyer,I think anyone where you could test something or see it or whether it's softwareor whether it's some sort of device to get a do point reading or whatever. I think it's always those people really stuck out to me. So,Matt, you and I were recently talking about how companies that exhibit at thesebig trade shows tend to go in with very little strategy. I know you'vebeen inside of manufaction companies, whereas John and Eric our agency guys, maybeyou've seen this from both sides. But what, like, let's talk alittle bit. John Jump in here too, but like, what do you guysthink that manufactures need to be doing ahead of time, during the showand also after the show to actually get the most out of this investment?Is opposed to just showing up and hoping that people then show up at yourbooth? I think part of it depends on what you've invested in marketing personneliesalready. For a lot of marketing professionals who do these trade shows, justgetting the booths stood up and getting your delegation in without there being a hitchis a full time job kind of all on its own, sort of goingin, going into Fab Tech, and so we talked about what. Whyis in there a lot of strategy around it? It's because the effort ofplanning, like your products in your dredge and your material handling and your laborand all the other aspects that go into making a trade show. If you'renot doing a year around, if it's like the way if you do itonce or twice a year, you know it's huge lift on your time andso it's why it's not a ton of strategy that goes into it from fora lot of companies that I see. So the question about how companies cando more, a lot of that has to do with collaborating more with yourwith your sales team, or getting a look into your crm and having asense of WHO's going to be exhibiting or, sorry, who's going to be attendingthere who maybe you have in an early stage pipeline opportunity. I thinkanother thing that I noticed with people doing trade shows in general in the industrialside is like there's those who do real demos and there's those who do stimulateddemos, and you're really only going to get interest in your booth if ifyou're doing a real demo, like you're paying for gas, you're paying forthirty amp outlets your you know, really gonna make things light up and sparkand you're going to be welding or cutting or forming metal or whatever it isyou're doing at that show, and if you be able to actually do alive demo on your booth, well that's a good time to bring early stageopportunity primary contacts who maybe having done a lot demo of your product before.Maybe your sales guy has something scheduled with them, and to give them achance to demo the product they're on the floor before having to go drive outto them and do it or leave it or leave a product there or havethem fly out to you if your product... so big that you can't evendo it that way and check the product out. So I think you know, using the trade show to do live demos on your early stage pipeline opportunitiesis really good. Is a pretty sound way to go. It just involvesdoing a lot of collaborating with your sales team and having them call on peopleand knowing who's going to be there and then scheduling time to make sure thatwhatever it is y'all want a demo is available and that other people don't havea demo schedule at the same time and so there's like no VARC technologies,who's one of the is is one company who does that really well. Andso if babtack when things they do, because they their product takes so longto put together and it's so such capacs three hundred thousand dollars or something likethat each. And so you know, people go to the show to demothe product. They bring their pipe samples in and they fit it up andand they weld in in front of them and show them all the data acquisitionthat it does and the sort of all the camera angles at it's able tograb and their recordings and things like that. And it's really smarter than to dothat. And then they have other times where it's kind of open scheduleand to be able can just kind of walk up and just do like awalk by Demo. But you know, they know that the show for themis getting their pipeline opportunities in to get alive demo, because it's hard todo that otherwise. So companies you do that, I think, tend towill tend to get more out of the show. But even still, Imean you're looking at you looking at things that are already in pipe on.They're trying to help close. So I think it tends to be how youlook at the investment in the first place. I was going to also comment onI was in terms of the post show follow up. I've just beenI don't say surprise. It's kind of what I expected. But I've seena lot of bad marketing post show, a lot of like hey, somehowof somebody got my business card. I'm clearly not in the target audience here, but somehow I just got thrown into like the churn and burn email likelist, and you know, there's it's all the stuff we talked about notdoing. It's Hey, look how great we are, instead of sending meany sort of content that could be even if I was a buyer, beingbeing relevant, it's hey, here's a there's a listing of our latest catalogor whatever. It's just you see that stuff and you're like, man,that you could you could be doing so much more. Yeah, I thinkone thing as an attendee that you noticed when you go to the show ishow much everyone markets do the same after the show, right, and sothinking about what you want to do in terms of execution is like I thinkhe's bearing in mind that you are one of fifty, sixty, seventy,eighty companies that WHO's badge got scanned, right, like this person who's badgeyou just scan. Well, they just got scamed by eighty other companies aswell. So they're probably going to get anywhere between fifty and seventy five,because some of them will just not bother do any follow up whatsoever. Outreachis afterwards. It's going to be from sales people one to one. It'sgoing to be automatic email nurtures, it's going to be people getting into yournewsletter. It's going to be your Webinar that you're running next month. Right. So what are you doing to stand out post show with anything different sothat you're not the same industrial company doing...

...the same homogeneists follow up that everyoneelse is doing? That isn't that is and and nobody is going to acton aside from the one person who probably would have bought from you in thefirst place because their need was so great and they saw your I mean theyprobably already contacted you with that at that point. Right. They're like,I saw this company, I saw this product of exactly what I was lookingfor. You know, they didn't need to follow up. They knew they'relike, I gotta I got a call this company immediately. So just thinkabout ways you could stand out a little bit more on those follow up executions, doing some personalized gift giving something. I think this is an area wheredirect mail can actually help you. Just anything to stick out in that regard. Or, you know, if you did a good job with with yourbadge scanning and you note taking and you found someone cool, if you havea good content program like if you have your own newsletter or if you haveyour own webinar series or if you have your own podcast, inviting one ofthose to belong to just be a guest on it and collaborate with them insteadof trying to just nakedly sell to them, which I think is what most peoplego out and do. And so I think that's where a lot ofthe follow up tends to fall flat, is because it's all really the sameand no one's taking a more patient approach with and understanding that it's relationships thatdrive you forward at this point and you know, really, once you turnthe relationship into turn the relationship making into something more transactional after the show,you kind of miss your chance to develop that over time. Yeah, that'sgood. Couple quick builds on what you guys said there. You know,John, I think your point about like all the noise after a trade show, don't be a part of it. Think about how how you feel whenyou get solicited like that in ways you don't want. So consider that whenyou think about how to follow up, first of all. And then,mad I think one point you made early on there was that I really likedwas going in with some by being intentional. I'm think ahead of time about youknow who's in your pipeline who might be at this show and you knowinvite them to your booth. has set up a demo ahead of time ata specific time? Or, Matt, when we were talking the other dayin preparation for this conversation, you see, you said, well, what aboutparallel events? Like if you've got ten really great prospects so you knoware going to be there and they're already in your funnel, how about makingus you know, setting up a side trip to get John You'd like thisone to go duck hunting or something right like her or whatever. Even rentout the bar next door. I think, Matt, you mentioned that one.Like could you host a private event and have it planned out ahead oftime and invite people who may not even be going to the show, butit might make them come to the show. There's gonna be so many people inone place at the same time and think it's just a missed opportunity tonot be able to engage people in some more meaningful way. So and likeI saw it, you know, I would camera what nights through there therewere think it was when the cardinals were on that crazy run they were on. So it's trying to catch baseball games at night and you'd sit and likeat the hotel bar and like that. There was business being done. They'relike, you know what I mean,... they the people had hung outall day, or maybe not head hung out all day, but they had. They connected at the trade show. Then they were meeting up for drinks, they were going to dinner after they were doing these like break out events. So almost and I mean it's very apparent that that's still were a lotof businesses being done. It's relationships, right. Yeah, I think youknow, with a lot of companies they want to try to sypon that offand so they're like, well, let me take my one big account todinner. Let me take my major distributor out to dinner where. I thinkwhat's cool that you could do is find, you know, if you know,you sell the like the top a let a carmaker and they use yourlaser product, and then you have like the top agricultural machinery maker and youhave a really good relationship with their waling engineer and you have a really goodrelationship with this guy who works at hall a burden or something like that.You know, if you have these relationships with these people and you have achance to kind of bring them together for like a group meal, these peopledon't compete with each other really for anything, but if you have a chance tobe the lynch pin or the Centrifugal Force around what makes those relationships happen, you get to be the company that helps produce the the network effect forothers in the space trying to either get better or want or know best practicesor looking to borrow techniques from other industries. And I think we're a lot ofcompanies. They want to try to keep these accounts apart from each other, when really it's interesting is to bring them together and try to, youknow, see what the conversations are like and you get to be the personwho helped put that together and you get to sort of be a fly onthe wall just observe it. So I think there's power and helping your customersforge relationships within their network and you putting those situations in place and you,as a marketer, have a chance to make those things happen, especially ifyou're able to put a really cool small event on for like, you know, six, seven, eight, nine, ten of your best customers. Youknow, another thing that I think is an opportunity. I saw thisgoing on last week. It's we're recording this on October eighteenth here in twothousand and twenty one, and last week in Memphis there was the autonomous mobilerobots and logistics conference going on in Memphis and I kind of a lot ofpeople that following them connected to on Linkedin a few, namely Chris Lukey,Aaron Prayther Jake Hall. The three of them were they were and I thinkChris and Jake I don't know if they sub leased booths space from somebody orwhat they did, but they had their podcasts set up and Chris Lukey runsmanufacturing happy. I was actually like recording podcast live right there at the show, which I think is just so smart, and whether it's, you know,you as a manufacturer recording a podcast, which maybe you know, not yourworld yet should be. We can talk about that. But creating contentof some sort that can also double as market research. I watched the guysat industrial sage do this a couple of years ago. To them for gettingoff hand which show it was, but they brought their cameras, their heavyequipment, like they're, you know,...

...their video equipment, and they walkedaround and they interviewed at like, you know, fifty or a hundred peoplethat are right in their target audience on camera and they created content all outof out of that. So I think that's an opportunity there for any manufacturerswho have a strong marketing arm. Could you be live at a show interviewingyour prospects, turning that into content that can serve you can serve those prospects, who help you build relationships with those people and double as market research,frankly. So kind of just throwing that one out into the mix as well. So all of this stuff considered, John Matt where do you guys thinktrade shows are going how do you think, if you look out into the future, three to five years from now, what do you think will be differentnow versus what maybe has happened in the last three to five years?You know I'm at. You'RE gonna have a lot more thoughts on this thanI am at. Again, I have you know, as I said earlier, I don't have a ton of experience or I don't have a lot ofthings to compare this to him in terms of how it has evolved already.But I think, you know, the the thing I kept hearing was smallercrowd, but the people who are here we're having really good conversations with,because if you're going to travel during a pandemic and during, you know,whenever there's health stuff going on like, you have to be pretty serious aboutit. I also think like the evolution of the booth is like if you'rerunning the same mole, like, as man always says, running the sameplaybook, where you've got, you know your you've got, I don't know, stress balls and Tshirts, and you know that's how you're in a fishfulbucket to put Your Business Card in. You're probably behind your what you arebehind and you need to be thinking in a more innovative way. Again,like going back to that TIG brush example. That just blew me away. It'sthe coolest thing I've seen and like I could actually I was talking livewith the guy and I could like do the demo with the product that hehad right there, like it was amazing. So those are my initial thoughts.I mean, Matt, you probably have way more thoughts and you youhave seen like how it's evolved today. Yeah, you know, I thinkyou're going to see a lot of companies scale back their investment overall, andwhat I mean by that is I just think a lot of companies going todo smaller footprints. They're going to focus more on live demos, and theyshould. It's going to be more focused on being experiential, smaller boosts,being smaller delegations of people. It means less hotels, it means less mealsout. tendance probably will come back to close to where it was. Ijust think companies are going to get smarter about what they put into the tradeshow because they are becoming wiser in terms of what they get out of it. I've sent the same sort of investment or a high calculator on trade showsthat I've used in my article that I wrote for Grilla and Webinar I've done, and death's the case for most people who go to it. So Ithink you're going to look at I'm looking at smaller footprints, more live demos, smaller delegations and smaller footprint. Mostly is because a lot of industrial companieswho sell a lot of different products like, Oh, we have thousands of productspotentially. Well, they're going to focus at twenty. They're going togo, well, we have twenty percent...

...of our products drive eighty percent ofour business, and why are we trying to focus on showing everything under thesun when we can just focus on the core products? And that's really goingto, at the end of the day, be what most people are interested inand they'll focus around that and instead of trying to show every possible configurationof it, they're just going to build. Here's one model week make. Wemake a bunch of modifications to it based on what you need, butthis is generally how it functions. So we were like some of the costsit were my mind and I don't want to say any numbers because I'm surethat I'll get them wrong, but I was hearing what some of these companiesspin just to get their equipment there, and that's where I'm like having thatlike two way video. Is You're saving so much money by not trying torebuild your shoppings. I mean, what do these companies spend? Some ofthem? I'm going to stop you guys there and use this as our transitioninto the question I've been waiting to ask, which is this. You know,Matt, you wrote an article on our site that you just kind ofmentioned in passing a second ago, last December, called the economics of yourtrade show are broken. Here's the fix, and I want to hear your becauseI've heard you go on thirty minute rants about that. But I wantto hear your condensed version of what's the counter argument to attending trade shows inthe first place, just just for the sake of roughlin some feathers here,because we're marketing guys and we're supposed to do that right. Let's get somehot takes. I mean the counter argument is just like you can spend youyou've probably already lost money on the trade show by the time you attend it. Overall, I mean the economics were like we spend two hundred thirtyzero betweenwhose face, drage, material, handling, labor, just whatever it is youget up charged by the show contract or about, you know, power, all the gas, all the other stuff that you need to produce foropportunities, one of which you close and it's worth fifty. Maybe. Let'ssay you sell a hundred thousand dollar piece of equipment, while you spent twohundred Thirtyeros the god of thousand dollar sale. So that's not really, you know, very the amount of times some of these people they would be like, I've been here for ten days, like setting up my booth. Well, yeah, that's the thing. I mean. It's just also just thetime commitment that you put I mean people spend hundreds of hours of their yearworking on the show and it's just like is that the smartest use of youtime? Probably not, when you could spend more time doing content and workingon establishing more organic presidents, on something like Linkedin, or taking that twohundred thirty thousand dollars and defining it between content development and paid distribution. There'sjust so many other more efficient things that can reach more people than than thetitch. I mean, lets in the rosiest of scenarios. You spend twohundred thirtyzero and Fiftyzero people attend that show and you scan all fiftyzero people,probably only a small percentage of which are your actual ICP. is spending likefour point, like for in a quarter on you know bad scans email,email address of someone who's never going to buy from you. It's like reallybad lead Chet. You know, if you you look at let's say youscant three hundred and you spent two hundred...

Thirtyzero, you've spent like seventy,not even that. I spent way more than that. Let's see one,two, three those now watching Matt's doing math on paper right now. Yeah, spend seven hundred sixty six dollars for a lead there, and then youconvert, you know, one of those into a customer. And so again, while I've been two hundred Thirtyzeros to get one customer. So that's theeconomics are broken because if you think about who you actually turn into a customer, who you meet it that show, it's a very small percentage. Nowcompanies will mask this by including existing business and up cells and then the thelead, get scan and they do the demo and then it becomes influenced revenueand then, you know, everyone feels happy at the end of the day. But if you're looking at it and as new customer acquisition, it's prettyit's pretty inefficient overall. I think most companies will be better served rellocating thatspend in other places. I still think you should attend the show, maybeget a ten by ten booth, maybe focus it on your key customers andtake them out for an event or an experience. But I mean just doingthe same play over and over again when we're in an era where information isavailable at any point in time at your fingertips, just it feels like alot of time and cost investment for not a lot in return. So,Matt, I have heard you use the term to describe sort of the brandof marketing that we really believe in, which is, you know, creatingamazing content for a specific audience and using paid distribution to be in front ofthem consistently, as almost like having a seven trade show going on at alltimes for our audience. You are manufacturing executive audience who probably has no ideawhat I mean when I say that. Can you sort of explain what thatmeans? In simple terms, when you're able to use social media or usethe power of a distribution because you can target audiences by their job title ortheir industry or their function or how many years they've experience that they have morewhat size of company that you want to target. When you when you haveall these ways to target people and areas where they spend most of their time, and you're able to do that over every single day, essentially over thecourse of a calendar year, you have a chance to tell a story andbuild a narrative around you that you just are not going to do in afive minute booth visit. You know, like the people who do really wellat those trade shows historically also do really good marketing three hundred sixty five daysa year. And so if you're sitting there and you're banking your entire leadgeneration strategy for the year on a couple of trade shows, you are goingto having miserable time getting any success out of your marketing because they're just competingwith too many other people and there's other companies who are building no like trustaffinity for their company and their brand and basically shaping the People's People's narrative aroundwhat their category, what your category looks like. They're doing that every singleday of the year and when you're not,... know you're basically losing you're losingmarket share, you're losing no like trust, you're losing mind share tothose those other companies. And so, you know, all I'm all Iadvocate for is if you have two hundred thirtyzero dollars to spend on a tradeshow, you're probably better off using it to create content for your company andthen distributing it really well places where your ideal customer spends more time, Imean your customer spends hours and hours of time on Linkedin or instagram or facebookor wherever youtube, as opposed to at a trade show. So that's that'sall I would probably advocate for as an alternative, just way to spend thatmoney. So anything that either of you guys want to add to this conversationthat didn't asked you about? I have kind of an interesting observation, andthere's no doubt I mean ai and robotics and it's not just the future,it's the present and a lot of places and it's only going more and morethat way. But Mad and I missed the launch the one day, andso we had to go to there was like a Mickey d's, which,Joe, I know you're a Mickey D's Guy. There there's a McDonald's insidethe place and it was crazy because Matt and I go down in the line. Was How many people are in that line? Mat like, I meanit was the longest McDonald's Line I've seen to go see a person like theperson at the counter there, right next to it was the kiosk where youcould just go up and order it, and no one was in line forthat. And so mad I were like is it broken? And it wasn't. That's how we ordered our food. We got it before like anybody inthe lion got their food. But it's just a perfect example like people arestill like kind of leary if some of that stuff. I don't know it. I just thought it was interesting, but it wasn't delicious. McDonald's cheesevery or I get the double cheefer remaining. So it is interesting though. Yeah, that anything you want to say to put a wrap on this?No, I I don't have anything much to add to that. Overall,I know people were happy to get back into a trade show function, butI don't think it's going to just roar back to what it was before.I think companies have accelerated adopting digital in a way that they haven't before andI think we're are going to look at the cost and investment of this comparedto other things they could spend on and think that it's more efficient to doother things with that, and I would think that's probably probably the right thingto do. Yeah, I think if anything, it's I feel like we'rejust going to see people be smarter. You know, one way or another, some companies will keep doing what they've been doing, but I think thisthe a lot of companies will look really hard at this and say, first, should we be doing this in the first place and, if so,how can we do it more efficiently? How can we get more more outof this? So hopefully the spurt some ideas for people in that camp.Great. Well, I appreciate you guys doing this. Will let you getback to work, but I want to first give you both a chance to, you know, to let her audience know how they can get in touchwith each of you. Yeah, you can find me on Linkedin. MatthewChanela, Matthew J Schonella. Also have my own podcast, the industrial marketingshow, which I do with Mj Peters just about every week. You canfind that on apple and spotify and we...

...turn out new episodes every week.So hopefully we'll give it a listen. Yeah, winked in John, JohnFranco, far and KO. I'm also on Instagram, company INSTAGRAM. Ido a little managing of that. So if I'm not on one of thosethings, I'm probably running around Forest Park. So that's pretty much where I am. Is this getting ready for that New York marathon with a stress ratstress fracturely going on right now? Correct? Yeah, so hopefully that that getshealed. We're going to try it out this week and say out fields. By the time this is live will know whether how you pulled it offwith some'm sure you will. Okay, guys. Well, once again,I appreciate it. Thanks for coming back on. We'll have both of youback on again at some point. You're both becoming veterans of this show andMatt, you're no first Rodeo for you either, running your own show.Go check out the industrial marketing show with Matt and I'M J Peters. Andas for the rest of you, hope to catch you on the next episodeof the Manufacturing Executive. You've been listening to the manufacturing executive podcast. Toensure that you never miss an episode. Subscribe to the show in your favoritepodcast player. If you'd like to learn more about industrial marketing and sales strategy, you'll find an ever expanding collection of articles, videos, guides and toolsspecifically for BTB manufacturers at Gorilla Seventy sixcom learn thank you so much for listening. Until next time,.

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